Is blue underpowered?

[Reth]

Hi altogether,

maybe it's only me but regarding enhancements which negate and discards versatile (like War in Heaven) blue seems to lack of such cards (at least I could not find any without restrictions like Unthwarted). The only I could find is The Rainbow (FoM) - but this would be wasting compared to its possibility as covenant.

Also I am missing some reliable battle winners which are CBN.

So what do you think about it? Or how do you power your blue decks in general or particular like for Job, Genesis, Antediluvian, Flood Survivors, ...?

Thanks in advance

Bye

[Mr.Hiatus]

Blue's power comes a few different ways. When Noah's Ark consistently recurs their heroes and grabs a Genesis 6-10 enhancement it starts getting scary. Now couple that with Genesis 6-10 enhs, from ORDIR

Anthropophobia (FM), Construction Begins (E), Covenant with Noah (Pa), Dove (E),
Faith Among Corruption (CW), Ham (CW), Ham’s Wife (FM), Japheth (CW),
Japheth’s Wife (FM), Noah (Pa, CW), Noah’s Wife (CW), Obedience of Noah (B, D,
Or, LR, P), Shem (CW), Shem’s Wife (FM), Sign of the Rainbow (E), The Dove (CW),
The Flood (CW), The Rainbow (FM) and Two by Two (FM)

this starts getting scary.
That's 4 negates, a discard, multiple battle winners, and The Flood. Like you said, these at surface value are not overly powerful but when you can constantly recur and attack with a 3 hero band plus all your hero's are TC and help each other it starts getting scary. That's just the Noah side.
You can still use other blue enhancements outside of Gen 6-10 obviously, a decrease 12/12 comes to mind.
Now think about the Sons of Jacob offense. Jacob can play first, he can choose the blocker but you can also couple this with Flood Survivors and consistently get back Obedience of Noah for Jacob to play. You also have Zebulun, Benjamin and Joseph with CBN battle winners off of Benjamin. Dinah is pretty awesome and Eve is amazing.
None of this response has even touched on a Job deck...and those things are just nasty.
And if The Rainbow is used as a GE and wins you a soul, is it really a waste? Also, Ark keeps getting it back so you can play it as a covenant if you want after you win a battle.
Blue has a lot of power you just have to find the right way to play it. Just because they don't have a for sure negate, discard CBN card, doesn't make them weak. White and clay don't have one either.

[Bobbert]

As far as negates go, Abraham's Descendant is one of the best in the game, IMO. Remember that just because it's TC doesn't mean you can't use it in battle. When using bigger characters (like Abraham), remember that FBTN enhancements like Abraham's Servant to Ur are also great.

As far as CBN battlewinners, just run Benjamin. 1/1 with CBN enhancements is hard to stop.

[Reth]

But this is what I am saying (since I am talking about enhancements): Nearly all have strong restrictions or depend on other cards - except The Rainbow.

Abraham’s Descendant: Only works against enhancements - not against ECs, Curses etc.
Anthropophobia (FM): Only topdecks non-humans and does not interrupt nor negate
Covenant with Noah (Pa): Only works against enhancements - not against ECs, Curses etc.
Dove (E): Opponent can choose from hand and does not interrupt nor negate
Faith Among Corruption (CW): Only works against enhancements - not against ECs, Curses etc.
Sign of the Rainbow (E): Only works against enhancements - not against ECs, Curses etc.
The Flood: Really powerful but does not negate nor interrupt and is restricted to flood survivers (ok there are 6 good guys)

Which of them do you consider battle winners?

whereas:

War in Heaven, 7th Bowl of Wrath, Mercy of James: Works against any (evil) card (well 7th bowl does not interrupt nor negate)
Or at least having sth. like Forest Fire, Razor (FooF), My Lord and My God which "just" need a certain group of characters in play (The Flood is sth. like this)!

And regarding Benjamin (1/1): Which enhancement can be used with him in order to negate and DC an EC like Doeg (with evil King Saul out) or Lions (well besides The Rainbow)?
Or which enhancements you would play with him besides Joseph before Pharaoh or Reuben's Torn Clothes?

[Jeremystair]

Behemoth!

[Kor]

whereas:

War in Heaven, 7th Bowl of Wrath, Mercy of James: Works against any (evil) card (well 7th bowl does not interrupt nor negate)
Or at least having sth. like Forest Fire, Razor (FooF), My Lord and My God which "just" need a certain group of characters in play (The Flood is sth. like this)!

Sorry which of these cards are CBN?

And regarding Benjamin (1/1): Which enhancement can be used with him in order to negate and DC an EC like Doeg (with evil King Saul out) or Lions (well besides The Rainbow)?
Or which enhancements you would play with him besides Joseph before Pharaoh or Reuben's Torn Clothes?

Well you answered that yourself, joseph before pharoah negates and captures Doeg. Sword of the Spirit negates and discards Doeg.  Abraham's servant to Ur can negate Doeg and still leave you initiative to play a different enhancement to win the battle CBN.

Good Genesis battle winners:

Joseph before pharoah
Forgiveness of Joseph
Jacob Buries Foreign gods
Reuben's Torn Clothes
Deceit and Vengeance
Obedience of Noah
Unified Language (banding in Abram's Army)

[Reth]

whereas:

War in Heaven, 7th Bowl of Wrath, Mercy of James: Works against any (evil) card (well 7th bowl does not interrupt nor negate)
Or at least having sth. like Forest Fire, Razor (FooF), My Lord and My God which "just" need a certain group of characters in play (The Flood is sth. like this)!

Sorry which of these cards are CBN?

None - but this was not what I've been asking for. I asked for versatile negate & discard cards like the ones I mentioned.
And another question: Which are usable pre-block enhancements for Jacob (FooF) besides Reuben's Torn Clothes (and maybe Numerous as the Stars or Obedience of Noah)?

Also I have to remove The Rainbow from the list since it has Unity and hence restricts quite a lot.

[kariusvega]

I wouldn't say it's underpowered maybe a little slow in my experience

It has recently won nationals. Relatively throne and other offenses do run circles around it.

It's usually not as fun as judges, Throne, coney, disciples, nt white, clay but there at some fun builds

One that uses Creation of the World and I like my The Purge concept

Not to mention Job is pretty solid

Just still not all around as consistent

[Reth]

It has recently won nationals. Relatively throne and other offenses do run circles around it.

Cool! When did it win Nats?

[kariusvega]

Hand control 2013

My deck The Purge is fun because of how much it uses side battles with blue's board clearing and hand dc for pretty reliable outcomes
http://www.cactusforums.com/complete-decks/t1-the-purge/

[Kor]

whereas:

War in Heaven, 7th Bowl of Wrath, Mercy of James: Works against any (evil) card (well 7th bowl does not interrupt nor negate)
Or at least having sth. like Forest Fire, Razor (FooF), My Lord and My God which "just" need a certain group of characters in play (The Flood is sth. like this)!

Sorry which of these cards are CBN?

None - but this was not what I've been asking for. I asked for versatile negate & discard cards like the ones I mentioned.

Also I am missing some reliable battle winners which are CBN.

[Reth]

You're right this was my other question - totally forgot about that.  But that question was not related to the first one. The first question compared the example enhancements with non-existing blue ones. This 2nd question asked for CBN battle winners. Third one asked for good preblock stuff.

[Kor]

Ah ok, my mistake, I thought you were wanting both in one card. 

[Mr.Hiatus]

No matter what answer is given it doesn’t look like your question will be answered. Blue doesnnit have a completely open, no restriction, negate an evil card and discard it. It doesn’t need it. You can achieve the same outcome in numerous ways and it has a CBN hero that’s a 1/1, that alone gives you what you need.

[The Guardian]

No matter what answer is given it doesn’t look like your question will be answered. Blue doesnnit have a completely open, no restriction, negate an evil card and discard it. It doesn’t need it. You can achieve the same outcome in numerous ways and it has a CBN hero that’s a 1/1, that alone gives you what you need.

The Rainbow 

[Reth]

No matter what answer is given it doesn’t look like your question will be answered. Blue doesnnit have a completely open, no restriction, negate an evil card and discard it. It doesn’t need it. You can achieve the same outcome in numerous ways and it has a CBN hero that’s a 1/1, that alone gives you what you need.

IMHO not since there is only 1 blue enhancement which helps Benjamin against ECs like Doeg or Lions!
Some of the other ways we also discussed and I am not yet convinced that blue Genesis for example can catchup to brigades or themes like Gold, White, Purple, Judges, Musicians, Disciples. Which is a pitty since I really like Genesis theme for example.
I checked The Purge from JD but did not try it myself yet. But that one seems to focus more on the flood (survivor) theme than the Genesis theme.

But I am open to more ideas / opinions (since my own deck building and concept discovery abilities are not very distinctive).

The Rainbow 

Very restricted due to Unity IMHO