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I dunno, did I? I came up with 2 cards out of about 550 where we later thought, "Hmm, that was a bit stronger in T2 than we anticipated" and that makes you think T2 has gotten the short end of the stick? 

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Even Type II gets the short end of the stick when it comes to testing.

I can assure you this is not the case. Going back to the original FooF set, I can think of two cards that I think got overlooked when it comes to T2 potency: Samaritan Water Jar (should have been a once per game ability) and Assyrian Siege Army (should have been unique).

So printing Hidden Treasures and the CBN version of Search in the same tin was not an overlooked issue in T2? Was the plan going into FoOF to uproot the T2-MP meta and replace it with a single archetype?

How many potency issues were resolved by the changes to T2 deck building rules, and was changing the T2 deck building rules also part of the plan going in or was it a response to power creep?

Finally, how much "responsibility" is borne by the T2 side of the fence when it comes to to the cards that had "potency" issues for both T1 and T2--cards like TGT and Thad, the rise of pre-block ignore (e.g., Jacob + RTC), and the ascendance of the chump block (e.g., Uzzah)?

I am sorry if this seems like a slam on the play testers, as it is not meant as such. I think it is important, however, to make an honest accounting of what worked and what didn't so that things that do not work do not get repeated.

I feel I speak for a lot of players when I say Redemption has taken a back-seat to other things. Most of the players I started playing with have moved on to other things (college, jobs, marriage, family, etc) and don't have the time to host, attend tournaments, or teach new players anymore.

Redemption doesn't necessarily need new cards every year (though that helps keep interest and generate excitement for the game), it needs more new players. This becomes difficult when most people my age would much rather do something else than take the time to learn a card game, spend money to collect all the cards needed to make decks, and practice until you know the cards well enough. The problem with attracting new younger players (from what I've seen), is the game is a lot harder to get into now than it was 8 years ago when I started.

Probably more than half of the cards we have created in the last few years have been designed from the Type 1 perspective. But they are tested in both Type 1 and Type 2 decks, and read with Type 2 in mind. I don't know where Isildur gets his idea that they are not tested in Type 2. Maybe its because the only playtester he is around very much (myself) prints physical copies of the playtest cards, and only tests those cards for Type 1. He can't possibly know that many of the other playtesters are testing these in Type 2 decks online. Just in the last couple days, we changed a card in the Early Church set based on Justin's view that it was too strong for Type 2.

As for sealed, Redemption has more than enough boosters available for Sealed and Booster Draft. When the number of available foil packs dwindles (and if Cactus can afford it), then maybe someday we can have a foil booster like Kings again, which has a good mix of cards from all brigades in the game. In the meantime, we will do what we can for Type 1 and Type 2.

As for the change to Type 2 deck building rules, I had been begging for that change ever since 2001 and the days of purple (Reach of Desperation/Great Faith/AoCp). It was a 2-step process, which began with the change from 1-per-20 (basically unlimited copies) to 5 max, and then (years later) to my original request, which was 4 max (which satisfied this math teacher's desire for Type 2 to be twice as concentrated as Type 1). It was not a reaction to poor Type 2 testing in any set.

The Type 2 playtesters have done a great job, and most people who have been around Redemption a long time agree that there is at least as much variety now in competitive Type 2 decks as there ever has been.

MJB83, the Hidden Treasures/Search combo didn't create a single archetype. It made Prophets a powerful, playable option. When new playable deck options are available, lots of people like to use them, since they are different/new. So they become quite popular. But after that tin had been out for about a year or so, we were back to at least as much variety as before, particularly around here and at nationals. And since then, interest in prophets have ebbed and flowed with the introduction of new cards.

MJB83, the Hidden Treasures/Search combo didn't create a single archetype.

Bryon, I am not sure how much T2-MP you played in the period between the release of Hidden Treasures/CBN Search (and to a lesser extent Naaman) in FoOF and the release of Nazareth with Disciples. What was a fairly wide open category with a large number of viable options prior to FoOF was replaced almost overnight with Green/Grey decks playing ANB Reset on offense and CBN searching on both sides. Heck it was so bad, John Early was even able to win Nationals with a deck like that.

It made Prophets a powerful, playable option.

Yes it did, but the subsequent warping of the T2-MP meta pretty much forced the introduction of Nazareth. The existence of Nazareth then basically destroyed the viability of the "Green Prophets" archetype--the one no one had an issue with--in both T1 and T2 and threw all of the progress (that you point to) out the window.

This is precisely what I was referring to when it comes to having short memories or just an overall reluctance to admit when mistakes are made.

I don't know where Isildur gets his idea that they are not tested in Type 2. Maybe its because the only playtester he is around very much (myself) prints physical copies of the playtest cards, and only tests those cards for Type 1. He can't possibly know that many of the other playtesters are testing these in Type 2 decks online. Just in the last couple days, we changed a card in the Early Church set based on Justin's view that it was too strong for Type 2.

The Type 2 playtesters have done a great job, and most people who have been around Redemption a long time agree that there is at least as much variety now in competitive Type 2 decks as there ever has been.

I stand corrected! My views were based mostly off of when you guys first started testing online back in what TexP or Di? I wrongly assumed that because the same people from back in the day are testing new sets that Type II was still tested with the same infrequency. As you can see I haven't been testing much hahaha.

Also don't get me wrong I wasn't trying to call out the playtesters or anything like that. My comment just snowballed a bit more then I anticipated.

Aww. ANB was a great card to play when you were faced with a much more experienced player, who only needed 1 lost soul to win. Of course playing Mayhem the next turn (when of defense) might have ticked some ppl off

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Bryon, I am not sure how much T2-MP you played in the period between the release of Hidden Treasures/CBN Search (and to a lesser extent Naaman) in FoOF and the release of Nazareth with Disciples. What was a fairly wide open category with a large number of viable options prior to FoOF was replaced almost overnight with Green/Grey decks playing ANB Reset on offense and CBN searching on both sides. Heck it was so bad, John Early was even able to win Nationals with a deck like that.

Search heavy T2 MP decks were used loooooooong before the CBN Search or Hidden Treasures came out...ya know, back in the day when T2 MP games didn't time out 2 out of every 3 games...

And let's just be clear--Search and Hidden Treasures weren't the problem with ANB Reset decks...it was ANB 

My bad. I just plumb forgot that people played searching cards prior to FoOF and that ANB was out since Patriarchs.

It must have been a pure coincidence that at the MN T2-Only in the two years prior to FoOF coming out there was 1 player running a ANB reset deck in T2-MP, the next year half of the field was running the deck and the year after that the number was closer to 3/4. This switch can't have anything to do with the cards in FoOF providing for CBN searching on both offense and defense or Hidden Treasures ensuring that you could get your ANB or Search off without your opponent being able to do anything.

Yep, the whole trashing of the T2-MP meta and how it coincided with the release of FoOF was nothing but crazy random happenstance. Absolutely nothing to learn from here, folks.

I think new brigades/themes are a good way to limit power creep in a game without casting costs or card pool restrictions, while still adding something new to test out, sort of like a new charater class in an MMO expansion.

No offence but the past 50 or so post are off topic.

Yep, the whole trashing of the T2-MP meta and how it coincided with the release of FoOF was nothing but crazy random happenstance. Absolutely nothing to learn from here, folks.

I take full responsibility for not being around much during that time to encourage people to use more anti-ANB counters. 

Maybe if you didn't make playing ANB decks look like so much fun, MJB...I knew better, but I know so many who fell for the cheery song and dance... 

I will never claim that every set is perfect, or that nothing ever falls through the cracks, but I guess I just disagree on how drastic the impact was of CBN Search and HT.

Furthermore, I miss having you for T2 MP...let me know if you ever want to borrow a deck for T2 MP and maybe I'll even put one copy of ANB in there just for you.