Cactus Game Design Message Boards

Definitely Exchanger if you are using OT males.  First round protect is still good.  And I think "shuffle a NT LS" and "If Opp plays a Dom" are still good.  Anti-Burial is another good NT lost soul, but there is a concern that people may not be using Burial in their decks anymore.  The FBTN lost soul will become more popular now, but understand that he would negate your own lost souls too.

Yeah, I still like Exchanger, but Im not sure about the FBTN soul, it negates the NT and */4 so SOG and NJ can be played on them.

Just saying, but anything that can shuffle a revealer is good in my book, get to use the revealer as many times as possible

I really don't understand why everybody thinks revealer is so great. I've never used it for four years

Quote from: Tom Bombadil on March 31, 2012, 12:09:41 AM

Just saying, but anything that can shuffle a revealer is good in my book, get to use the revealer as many times as possible

I really don't understand why everybody thinks revealer is so great. I've never used it for four years

Revealer can win games if it hits cards that are crucial to a deck. I recently won a game against Pol because in the first couple turns, I used Revealer to put his Son of God at the bottom. It's not the best ability in the game, but considering the other options, it tends to be a better call. Plus, as Wings of Music mentioned, it can fish Lost Souls out.

I disagree with anyone who says the FBTN Lost Soul isn't great. I'm talking exclusively for OT Male-based offenses, but it's pretty much required with the new rescue rule.

Steffer, is there a reason you lately seem to be multi-posting a lot? There are edit buttons on posts for a reason....

On-topic: I definitely still see a use for Shuffler as another way of getting rid of a half-rescued Souls card, but it's lost a lot of strategic value with the new rescue rule.

First of all, taking out good cards with revealer is all random
You could take out your opponents 2 worst cards for him to draw his sog next turn, so you can't say that it helped you to win a game because it is all random

True but what I said about helping get lost souls out still applies.
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you are right and i might add it to my deck, Also is FBTN the lost soul that negates special abilitys on lost souls

okay, well thanks for the help

Quote from: Andy Herzog on April 06, 2012, 01:51:28 PM

First of all, taking out good cards with revealer is all random
You could take out your opponents 2 worst cards for him to draw his sog next turn, so you can't say that it helped you to win a game because it is all random

I absolutely can say that. If I hit an opponent's Son of God with Revealer and I win 5-3 while they have New Jerusalem in their hand, then I can absolutely say that putting Son of God on the bottom helped me win the game because it did. Just because it's random doesn't change the fact that it helped me.

But what is less discernable though are those games where the revealer moved a card closer to the top that won them the game.  Maybe it was their DON to get rid of Unholy Writ for their last rescue attempt.  Maybe it was Falling Away, to play on your 2 liner, and then bury it.  Maybe it was SOG or NJ, which they then won the game with.  Or Angel of the Lord to use for their last rescue attempt.  Or Burial to stall for that one more crucial turn.  Etc, etc, etc.  We all remember the cool cards we put on the bottom of decks, but how many games do we keep track of when we won or lost because of a card that the person drew on the turn after your revealer removed their top two cards?  We just don't think along these lines.

Don't get me wrong, I think Revealer is great, but not necessarily for the randomness of what it puts on the bottom of the deck.  It is useful because it is a NT lost soul (for use with another popular lost soul), is a lost soul generator, and (to a much lesser extent) sometimes reveals things about an opponent's deck strategy at the start of the game.

On a side note, because of cards like Revealer, I always liked my fast decks to also have search cards in them, like Birth Foretold.

Quote from: Chronic Apathy on April 02, 2012, 02:44:46 PM

Grapes also works on defense though, especially if you're behind by a soul or two. It's so versatile I think it will always be in my decks.

This is about CM vs Grapes. CM is far better on defense. It isn't conditional on two things (soul count and having others block. Remember, this is multi). Really, it's going to rarely be used offensively, so if we're judging them by defensive merits only, CM is far better than grapes.

Grapes is not a very good card. I know RDT doesn't use it and I've had trouble convincing myself to use it in the past.

Disagree with pretty much everything in this post. Christian Martyr is right about useless in the late game when a lot of banding is going on. It's also right about useless against NT offenses who use Herod's Temple. Beyond that, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Quote from: Chronic Apathy on April 06, 2012, 03:33:57 PM

Quote from: Andy Herzog on April 06, 2012, 01:51:28 PM

First of all, taking out good cards with revealer is all random
You could take out your opponents 2 worst cards for him to draw his sog next turn, so you can't say that it helped you to win a game because it is all random

I absolutely can say that. If I hit an opponent's Son of God with Revealer and I win 5-3 while they have New Jerusalem in their hand, then I can absolutely say that putting Son of God on the bottom helped me win the game because it did. Just because it's random doesn't change the fact that it helped me.

But what is less discernable though are those games where the revealer moved a card closer to the top that won them the game.  Maybe it was their DON to get rid of Unholy Writ for their last rescue attempt.  Maybe it was Falling Away, to play on your 2 liner, and then bury it.  Maybe it was SOG or NJ, which they then won the game with.  Or Angel of the Lord to use for their last rescue attempt.  Or Burial to stall for that one more crucial turn.  Etc, etc, etc.  We all remember the cool cards we put on the bottom of decks, but how many games do we keep track of when we won or lost because of a card that the person drew on the turn after your revealer removed their top two cards?  We just don't think along these lines.

Don't get me wrong, I think Revealer is great, but not necessarily for the randomness of what it puts on the bottom of the deck.  It is useful because it is a NT lost soul (for use with another popular lost soul), is a lost soul generator, and (to a much lesser extent) sometimes reveals things about an opponent's deck strategy at the start of the game.

On a side note, because of cards like Revealer, I always liked my fast decks to also have search cards in them, like Birth Foretold.

In fact I'd say the putting top two cards on the bottom actually has a slightly higher chance of helping your opponent than hurting them, because there are several cards that work with the bottom card of deck, and your opponent chooses what goes on the very bottom.  Revealer is mostly useful because of the soul generation.

In fact I'd say the putting top two cards on the bottom actually has a slightly higher chance of helping your opponent than hurting them, because there are several cards that work with the bottom card of deck, and your opponent chooses what goes on the very bottom.  Revealer is mostly useful because of the soul generation.

Exactly.  In a recent game, my opponent's revealer put Gomer and a demon on the bottom of deck.  I used Gates of Hell to immediately bring out the demon and when I blocked, I banded to their Egyptian Magician to get out Gomer for more banding.  A free D2 for me.

Who cares if it does that?  I mean even if he does put two easy to get out cards on the bottom it just increases the odds of him getting a lost soul, which is the whole point of having the revealer in your deck.  I contend that despite the odds of helping your opponent (which are offset for the most part by the chance of putting something that hurts him below deck) are outweighed by the chance of getting a lost soul out.