Author Topic: Redemption Hall of Fame voting for 2009 (Read 48401 times)

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #75 on:** December 28, 2009, 09:54:25 AM »

I like how Raven voted for the guys he knew.

Quote from: New Raven BR on December 26, 2009, 11:22:47 PM

several of the guys listed i know of:
gabe, justin,rob, doug, bany, andtim maly
i vote for all those guys

but yes, 4.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #76 on:** December 28, 2009, 09:58:46 AM »

Quote from: Ring Wraith on December 28, 2009, 09:54:25 AM

I like how Raven voted for the guys he knew

And this is truly different than how most people have been voting? I would guess that the vast majority of votes cast were for candidates known by the voter, which is precisely why Hall of Fames do not vote in active players. Proximity is the bias that is difficult to avoid in these situations.

SirNobody · « **Reply #77 on:** December 28, 2009, 04:39:45 PM »

Hey,

Generally the people inducted into a hall of fame are voted on by a select group of voters rather than by the general public. That is something we could consider, although I think it would mostly defeat the point of this thread.

Perhaps players could list all of the players on the list that they have been exposed to and then vote for two out of that subset of the list. The "winners" would then be those that were voted for by the greatest percentage of people that were exposed to them. That way Joshua Hey's chances to be selected wouldn't be hindered by the fact that 85% of active players have never attended a tournament he was at.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

Master KChief · « **Reply #78 on:** December 28, 2009, 05:08:28 PM »

i have.

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #79 on:** December 28, 2009, 09:19:04 PM »

Quote from: YourMathTeacher on December 28, 2009, 09:58:46 AM

Quote from: Ring Wraith on December 28, 2009, 09:54:25 AM
I like how Raven voted for the guys he knew

And this is truly different than how most people have been voting? I would guess that the vast majority of votes cast were for candidates known by the voter, which is precisely why Hall of Fames do not vote in active players. Proximity is the bias that is difficult to avoid in these situations.

but only the guys he knew. so everybody he knew on the list, he voted for. I guess I should have said "I like how Raven voted for everybody that he knew."

EmJayBee83 · « **Reply #80 on:** December 28, 2009, 11:05:07 PM »

Quote from: Ring Wraith on December 28, 2009, 09:19:04 PM

but only the guys he knew. so everybody he knew on the list, he voted for. I guess I should have said "I like how Raven voted for everybody that he knew."

I did that way back on page 3 (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/index.php?topic=19078.msg298829#msg298829).

Everybody I know that is on the list of nominees deserves to be in, so I voted for all of them. Prof Underwood can adjust the weighting of my votes so they add up to two each.

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #81 on:** December 29, 2009, 11:38:23 AM »

Quote from: SirNobody on December 28, 2009, 04:39:45 PM

Generally the people inducted into a hall of fame are voted on by a select group of voters rather than by the general public.

This is a good point. I'm trying to balance things a bit by putting up a list of people who all seem to be deserving and then let the general public vote. That gives everyone a voice, while also not letting a local playgroup of 20 guys to get their person in there.

Quote from: EmJayBee83 on December 23, 2009, 12:32:44 AM

If you limit membership to four starters and then two per year thereafter, we won't clear out the current list until 2014

This is also a good point. Perhaps, we should elect 4 per year. The problem is that Redemption has been going for 15 years, and there's probably only about 30 people total that the majority would agree deserve to be in a HoF. If we vote in too many each year, then we will reach a point in the future where the people voted in might not match up with the earlier inductees.

Quote from: Sean on December 23, 2009, 12:47:54 AM

LOL, I'm not sure if Prof Underwood knows about TKP.

I am aware of The Krazy People and their infamous shenanigans

Quote from: BrianGabe on December 23, 2009, 01:05:52 AM

Votes and stories...

Finally someone else with stories. Thanks for contributing.

Quote from: lightningninja on December 23, 2009, 04:55:44 PM

It's not an official thing with Cactus it's a REALLY COOL thing Prof Underwood did by himself.

Thanks for the props, and understanding

Quote from: SirNobody on December 24, 2009, 04:04:31 PM

if we eliminate active players from consideration only three of the sixteen names on Prof's list would still be eligible

Which is why I am not using that limitation. I will limit it to people who have been playing for at least 3 years though.

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #82 on:** December 29, 2009, 11:45:50 AM »

Quote from: a bunch of people

Quadrate, RR, Wild Bill, Eric "no pants" Largent, Kevin Shride, Daniel Witten

These are all good examples of people who are likely to replace the first 4 inductees on the candidate lists.

They are also examples of people whose names should have been PM'd to me instead of posted in this thread. When you post names it makes people who don't get their name posted feel left out. Please just PM me in the future. That way everyone can assume that they also got PM'd to me, but that other people simply got more votes

SirNobody · « **Reply #83 on:** December 29, 2009, 12:12:21 PM »

Hey,

Having played seven of the eight players on the list (or six of the eight if I don't count myself) I'm in a unique position to evaluate the talent of the various individuals. I'd like to share some experiences and statistics about the various people on the list as per Prof Underwood's desire. I'll post my comments about each player in a separate post (I'll probably post about 1 per day for the rest of the week).

Tschow,

Tim “Sir Nobody” Maly

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #84 on:** December 29, 2009, 12:13:10 PM »

Quote from: Prof Underwood on December 29, 2009, 11:45:50 AM

They are also examples of people whose names should have been PM'd to me instead of posted in this thread. When you post names it makes people who don't get their name posted feel left out. Please just PM me in the future. That way everyone can assume that they also got PM'd to me, but that other people simply got more votes

The problem with this goes back to the proximity bias. Some people recognize names better either from distance proximity (they play in my state) or time proximity (they just won Nationals). Once other names are mentioned, the "oh yeah, I forgot about them" syndrome starts to appear. I think a more fair decision is likely if all the names are out there, since you are not going to use normal "Hall of Fame" protocols.

SirNobody · « **Reply #85 on:** December 29, 2009, 12:13:45 PM »

Joshua Hey (2001-2004) –

Contrary to Prof Underwood's description, Joshua Hey actually played more Type 1 in his career than he did Type 2. His 2-player category of choice was Type 1 for all but the last year that he played. While Quadrate introduced the win before you lose side of speed, and Justin popularized the draw like a mad fool side of speed, Joshua Hey was the first to combine the two into the sort of speed deck that is so popular today. You could say that Joshua Hey was the link between Quadrate and Justin in the progression of the speed deck over the years.

Statistics:

At Nationals 2004, Joshua Hey placed 1st in T2-MP, 1st in T2-2P and 3rd in T1-MP making him one of only three people to have ever placed in three different categories in the same national tournament.

Joshua Hey is one of only three players to have placed in all four open categories at nationals.

Between Nationals 2003 and Nationals 2004 Joshua Hey placed in five events winning three of them.

Joshua Hey was 4th in lifetime RNRS points in 2004 when he quit playing Redemption.

Anecdote:

I played Joshua Hey in T1-2P at Nationals in 2002. It was the second to last round, he was in 4th place and I was in 5th place going into the game. The game was moving along when a ruling question came up. We called over a judge who ruled incorrectly (I had read the exact rule in the REG a week earlier so I was quite sure what the ruling should be) so I appealed to Rob. Rob wasn't sure on the ruling so we were told to continue as ruled and Rob went to look and see if he could find the rule in the REG. Ten minutes later we were informed that they found the ruling in the REG and the ruling that was made had indeed been incorrect. The game ended up a 5-4 win for him, with the incorrect ruling appearing to be the deciding factor. Joshua Hey admitted to Rob that he would not have won the game if the ruling had been made correctly and very graciously accepted a reversal in the games final score which effectively ended his chances of winning nationals (with the win he would have been sitting in 2nd place half a point behind the leader and headed for a final round game with Keith that would have determined the winner of the event).

EmJayBee83 · « **Reply #86 on:** December 29, 2009, 12:14:36 PM »

Quote from: Prof Underwood on December 29, 2009, 11:45:50 AM

They are also examples of people whose names should have been PM'd to me instead of posted in this thread. When you post names it makes people who don't get their name posted feel left out.

Says the man who started this entire thread by posting a bunch of names and asked people to vote for their favorites.

STAMP · « **Reply #87 on:** December 29, 2009, 12:21:55 PM »

We don't need no steenking list! PM to be sent.

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #88 on:** December 29, 2009, 01:23:42 PM »

Quote from: SirNobody on December 29, 2009, 12:12:21 PM

I'm in a unique position to evaluate the talent of the various individuals. I'd like to share some experiences and statistics about the various people on the list as per Prof Underwood's desire.

This is EXACTLY the type of thing I'm looking for, and I really enjoyed reading your first one about Josh Hey. Thanks!

Quote from: STAMP on December 29, 2009, 12:21:55 PM

We don't need no steenking list! PM to be sent.

PM received, but I'm not actually taking votes on current candidates yet. Feel free to PM me with ideas to be added to the list of future candidates though

.

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #89 on:** December 29, 2009, 10:05:23 PM »

Quote from: Prof Underwood on December 29, 2009, 11:38:23 AM

Quote from: Sean on December 23, 2009, 12:47:54 AM
LOL, I'm not sure if Prof Underwood knows about TKP.
I am aware of The Krazy People and their infamous shenanigans

I'm not aware of any group named The Krazy People. there is, however, a group named The Karazy People.

SirNobody · « **Reply #90 on:** December 30, 2009, 07:03:21 PM »

Keith Bartram (1999-2002) -

The fact that Keith Bartram has not yet been mentioned in this thread proves the bias towards contemporary players. Keith Bartram played in a different era. By my estimation, only eight members of this board have ever met Keith Bartram, and only three of those have ever played against him. When Keith Bartram quit playing: the message board we used was a usenet group (rec.games.trading-cards.misc) and the ezboard hadn't even been created yet, the RNRS system had just been created and tournaments were few and far between, and Patriarchs was the most recently released set. But in his era, Keith Bartram could not have been more dominant.

Statistics:

Keith Bartram is the only player to win the main event at nationals (T1-2P) three times.

Only two players have attended nationals more than once and won an event every year they attended; Keith Bartram is one of them.

Keith Bartram won T1-2P at every national tournament he attended.

Anecdote:

The only time I ever played Keith Bartram was in the seventh round of T1-2P at Nationals in 2002. I don't remember very much about the game. I just remember that his offense was very similar to mine. And that he tore a Haman's Plot against me; and when he tore it, he took it out of the sleeve, folded it in half, bent it back and forth along the crease, then carefully tore it where it had been weakened tearing the card exactly in half. He won the game 5-3.

Red · « **Reply #91 on:** December 30, 2009, 07:05:14 PM »

we need to make cards for these guys like mtg does.

Master KChief · « **Reply #92 on:** December 30, 2009, 07:10:33 PM »

i played bartram at nationals 2003 (or 2002, whichever was in minnesota). we were using practically the exact same deck. my only loss that nationals was to him, putting me in 2nd place.

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #93 on:** December 30, 2009, 07:20:33 PM »

02 Was MN, 03 Was Pittsburg.

SirNobody · « **Reply #94 on:** December 30, 2009, 07:49:37 PM »

Hey,

Quote from: Master KChief on December 30, 2009, 07:10:33 PM

i played bartram at nationals 2003 (or 2002, whichever was in minnesota). we were using practically the exact same deck. my only loss that nationals was to him, putting me in 2nd place.

It was 2002. Were you using plots that year? That's what I remember being his edge that year, he checked in six decks and tore 5 plots. T1-2P was a really close event that year, six players had a chance of winning the tournament going into the last round.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

Master KChief · « **Reply #95 on:** December 30, 2009, 08:43:00 PM »

yuh, we all were. it was long ago, i just remember it being held in a gymnasium...bleachers...and a big michael cutout chris bany made where you could put your face in it and get your pic taken. heh, nostalgia.

adamfincher · « **Reply #96 on:** December 30, 2009, 09:22:24 PM »

gabe definitely knows what he is doing.... i vote for master kchief because of halo wars.. i mean wait nevermind..

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #97 on:** December 31, 2009, 12:24:47 AM »

Quote from: SirNobody on December 30, 2009, 07:03:21 PM

The fact that Keith Bartram has not yet been mentioned in this thread proves the bias towards contemporary players.

Finally someone agrees with me.

Master KChief · « **Reply #98 on:** December 31, 2009, 01:32:14 AM »

what about kory lentine? only the old-skool players would know him, and he definately deserves to be in.

egilkinc · « **Reply #99 on:** December 31, 2009, 08:25:41 AM »

hey,

I would like to propose either a special vote or an automatic induction:
- For this first year only
- Reserved for Rob Anderson
- In addition to the other 2 votes regarding Contributor and Player

I have 3 more nominations that I haven't seen mentioned here, but I will save them for the 2010 nomination process.

L8er,
Gil

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Author Topic: Redemption Hall of Fame voting for 2009 (Read 48401 times)

Warrior_Monk

Warrior_Monk

Warrior_Monk