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My Type 2 list would include Nate Leverson.

Nate has made tremendous strides in his development as a player (T2 or otherwise). One thing I would need to see for him to take the next step (specifically as a T2 player) would be to experiment with some new deck types. He pilots his primary T2 deck extremely well, but I think the top players are those who can be successful with various deck strategies.

...but in the end we all kind of have an idea of those players we view as good or great and most of them will be pretty accurate, overrate some people, underrate some, and not include some.

I highlighted this phrase because this is my point every time the issue comes up....this is a subjective discussion in which there is major bias.  Everyone uses different criteria to do these rankings.

@Brian, you should have just pretended you knew the rankings and gave them the names of 5 people in the 2 major categories.  Because ultimately, your playgroup is going to believe what you say is true.

Quote from: The Schaefer on August 24, 2018, 05:22:19 PM

...but in the end we all kind of have an idea of those players we view as good or great and most of them will be pretty accurate, overrate some people, underrate some, and not include some.

I highlighted this phrase because this is my point every time the issue comes up....this is a subjective discussion in which there is major bias.  Everyone uses different criteria to do these rankings.

@Brian, you should have just pretended you knew the rankings and gave them the names of 5 people in the 2 major categories.  Because ultimately, your playgroup is going to believe what you say is true.

I could just tell them what I think, but it spurred on some questions of my own. We have RNRS and even a hall of fame but no ranking year by year. Not sure if other card games do it or not.

I could just tell them what I think, but it spurred on some questions of my own. We have RNRS and even a hall of fame but no ranking year by year. Not sure if other card games do it or not.

The only other game's competitive scene I know anything about is MtG and they have a HoF but its mostly for top players who have a positive impact on the community rather than just the players who are "the best" at the game. There's no strict ranking that I know of since such a thing isn't really possible for something so broad and luck involved as a card game. There's a general pool of people who everyone in the scene knows are frequently seen in the top 8 of large tournaments but that's about as specific as you can get.

The most specific I would rank the competitive scene of Redemption is people who have multiple Nats wins > people who frequently show up in top cut and in regionals top 3 > anyone with a single top cut or regionals top 3 > everyone else. Even that doesn't really tell you much since some people go from never approaching top cut to placing in just a year. The Redemption scene is small enough that anyone who knows the cards and puts in the effort has a pretty good shot at placing in any category. If you want to know who the most consistently good players are RNRS actually does a decent job at showing that.

Which is why Nationals is worth 45 points. A State, Regional and National win is 105 points. Unless the CA player makes Nationals and places second they won't win RNRS

I have won RNRS in categories that I did not even play at Nats, with easy roads up leading up to it. I am sure others have. I know some people that have a lot of RNRS points that I would not even consider a top 20 player.

I don’t think RNRS is a good system for that. A player in California can max out in RNRS, but most likely would even hit top 15 at Nats

I mean... are you talking about the past or currently? Currently, the player base in California is close to zero so you'd be right about now... but regarding players in the past I'd say you are very wrong.

Myself, Kurt, Bryon and lightningninja (Brandon) are all from California and we all placed in the top 3 at Nats. The Hakes are legends in the Type II scene. The number of players on this list can be double or triple if you include players from California placing in the top 15 at Nats over the years. If I remember right I placed in the top 15 in Type I 2 player twice over the 4 or so nationals I went to.

My first place in Sealed Deck at Boston Nats was with a player pool that was almost twice the size of the Type II player pool that year. It was like 60 or 70 players participating in Sealed. I also placed fourth in Sealed another year at Missouri Nats (I didn't place due to losing to the first or second place winner in like my 2nd or 3rd game). Those of us who placed at Nats all did it when there was pretty fierce competition.

Sorry if I left out the Kramers or the Wolfes. I can't remember if they ever placed in the top 3 in any categories at Nats. Both families did very well in the RNRS over the years. I think most of us old school California folk are still in the top 100 or top 50 of the current all time RNRS list.

Sorry I just had to defend us California folk

Quote from: Jonesy on August 24, 2018, 09:04:52 PM

I don’t think RNRS is a good system for that. A player in California can max out in RNRS, but most likely would even hit top 15 at Nats

I mean... are you talking about the past or currently? Currently, the player base in California is close to zero so you'd be right about now... but regarding players in the past I'd say you are very wrong.

Myself, Kurt, Bryon and lightningninja (Brandon) are all from California and we all placed in the top 3 at Nats. The Hakes are legends in the Type II scene. The number of players on this list can be double or triple if you include players from California placing in the top 15 at Nats over the years. If I remember right I placed in the top 15 in Type I 2 player twice over the 4 or so nationals I went to.

My first place in Sealed Deck at Boston Nats was with a player pool that was almost twice the size of the Type II player pool that year. It was like 60 or 70 players participating in Sealed. I also placed fourth in Sealed another year at Missouri Nats (I didn't place due to losing to the first or second place winner in like my 2nd or 3rd game). Those of us who placed at Nats all did it when there was pretty fierce competition.

Sorry if I left out the Kramers or the Wolfes. I can't remember if they ever placed in the top 3 in any categories at Nats. Both families did very well in the RNRS over the years. I think most of us old school California folk are still in the top 100 or top 50 of the current all time RNRS list.

Sorry I just had to defend us California folk

I know California used to be formidable, I used them as an example because currently from what I know they have dropped off. This thread is becoming something that it was not intended for, so I am going to get it back on track.
Here are my top 3 teams currently(3rd place dropped off this year, but I full expect them to be back). Normally I would separate it by individual, but these players have only played with each other at Nats for the past 3 or so years.

1. John Earley/Gabe Isbell
2. Josiah Beers/ Brian Jones
3. Justin Alstad/ Jayden Alstad

I would be interested in hearing anyone's thoughts on Booster, if that is even possible. lol

Quote from: Jonesy on August 25, 2018, 08:22:58 AM

Quote from: Isildur on August 25, 2018, 03:29:09 AM

Quote from: Jonesy on August 24, 2018, 09:04:52 PM

I don’t think RNRS is a good system for that. A player in California can max out in RNRS, but most likely would even hit top 15 at Nats

I mean... are you talking about the past or currently? Currently, the player base in California is close to zero so you'd be right about now... but regarding players in the past I'd say you are very wrong.

Myself, Kurt, Bryon and lightningninja (Brandon) are all from California and we all placed in the top 3 at Nats. The Hakes are legends in the Type II scene. The number of players on this list can be double or triple if you include players from California placing in the top 15 at Nats over the years. If I remember right I placed in the top 15 in Type I 2 player twice over the 4 or so nationals I went to.

My first place in Sealed Deck at Boston Nats was with a player pool that was almost twice the size of the Type II player pool that year. It was like 60 or 70 players participating in Sealed. I also placed fourth in Sealed another year at Missouri Nats (I didn't place due to losing to the first or second place winner in like my 2nd or 3rd game). Those of us who placed at Nats all did it when there was pretty fierce competition.

Sorry if I left out the Kramers or the Wolfes. I can't remember if they ever placed in the top 3 in any categories at Nats. Both families did very well in the RNRS over the years. I think most of us old school California folk are still in the top 100 or top 50 of the current all time RNRS list.

Sorry I just had to defend us California folk

I know California used to be formidable, I used them as an example because currently from what I know they have dropped off. This thread is becoming something that it was not intended for, so I am going to get it back on track.
Here are my top 3 teams currently(3rd place dropped off this year, but I full expect them to be back). Normally I would separate it by individual, but these players have only played with each other at Nats for the past 3 or so years.

1. John Earley/Gabe Isbell
2. Josiah Beers/ Brian Jones
3. Justin Alstad/ Jayden Alstad

I would be interested in hearing anyone's thoughts on Booster, if that is even possible. lol

Needs more Craig Fountain/Matt Brinkman and Sauce/Westy...

I have been doing current players on all my rankings. I would love feedback from people who have been around for a long time to give their opinions on who are the top players of all time by category.

All I can say for Booster is Josh Knitt would be at the top of any list I come up with. He seems to be the most consistent Booster player as far as I know.

Between RNRS points and major tournament wins (which become lots of RNRS points though?) I think the systems are already in place to see who the best players are.  This topic seems like more of a way to either ignore failure or success based on opinion?  I'd be more curious to hear which are the strongest -> weakest regions and states of the ones that actually hosted region and state level tournaments since playing 'weak regions' seems to be the common complaint about RNRS.  Oh and feel free to rank them separately for T1 and T2 if that is necessary.

For reference, in 2017-2018, the state level tournaments that were hosted were (11):

TX
MB
MN
TN
MA
OH
CT
IA
FL
PA
KS

And the regions that hosted regionals (5):

South Central
North East
East Central
South East
North Central

From this list, any argument about players in California etc. having it easy seem to be void - they don't even have tournaments for their players to attend.


And as this topic is about giving opinion, I would like to take the time recognize some of the players in my playgroup.

Evan B. (also would be the one I would bet on for 2-player booster)
Andy G. (aka the music leader master)
Kevin P. (can and does pretty much play everything)

All are great players who are capable of playing a variety of deck types at a high level.

This whole ranking system is flawed immensely because you are taking into effect one major flaw of Redemption. I cannot voice it here because it will upset people. I hope with the new set it will be different but I doubt it.

Curiosity: what state is MB?  Interesting question: what about that player that is supposed to have attended 20 Nats in a row, where would he factor in the rank system?