Author Topic: Predictions and Meta Discussion.  (Read 1958 times)

Offline Red

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Predictions and Meta Discussion.
« on: May 11, 2017, 09:15:12 AM »
+2
With the release of Revelation of John and the introduction of the reserve, the competitive meta is going to vastly shift. What are your predictions for defensive and offensive meta? I'll lead us off with an annotated list.

Offensive meta:

NT White. - NT White is gaining a large buff with the introduction of Woman with Child and the Martyrs theme. Combined with the gradual buffs that have been introduced in the past three-four sets (Music Leader, Word of Christ, Praise from Prison, Word of their testimony, various faith ofs) and older tools ranging from Chenaniah and Garden Tomb support, I'm expecting some variation of NT white splash to be incredibly viable.

NT Splash - Revelation of John introduced some incredibly viable tri-brigade cards, as well as created an effective wedge in Clay/White/Green. I'm predicting that some variation of a an NT splash deck will be highly viable. I see two variants of this idea being around. These variants will be centered around either Dom-Rushing with Priests of Christ/Woman with Child/Angels of Wrath or playing Board Clears with the Blue/Clay/Purple Wedge.

BoM - While it isn't going to be the force it once was, BoM will remain a force to be reckoned with. BoM can be reconstituted with cards such as Justin Martyr and Michael, The Archangel to give slightly more oomph in today's environment.

Judges - The deck that cannot die. Revelation of John gave Judges no toys. However, it gave everyone Three Woes, of which Judges is a huge beneficiary. Coliseum and Dull Soul are powerful Judges counters that Three Woes can shut down. Judges, as a deck centered around incredible CBN options, remains a force to be reckoned with.

Clay Variants. - I'm expecting Clay variants to be around, but not to be the most popular choices. Paul greatly buffs all straight clay offenses. Not much more to say here.

Angels. - I view straight Revelation Angels as an interesting option. It's slow as molasses compared to some of the other options, but it is an incredible powerhouse. I predict Angels to be most played due to the Timmy Factor, but don't expect it to dominate every tournament.

Throne - Every. Freaking. Tribe. Throne gets one new toy, but what a toy it is. I expect this deck to see play again this season, especially since three woes will decrease the ubiquity of Coliseum.

Defensive predictions:

Demons - Will see as much play as Angels due to the same factor. I expect Demons to be both the best and most common defense for a variety of reasons. They have reserve access, as well as ludicrous characters like Red Dragon and Abbadon. The best Demons players will also forgo suicidal swine stampede in favor of a third or fourth negate. Battles are longer now and demons will prosper in a battle heavy meta.

Pharisees and Sadducees - United we conquer, divided we fall. These two themes will see success if paired together due to the power ability of Chief Priests. Played individually these themes are not great. This is a defense that is stronger than the sum of it's parts.

Brown. - It will be out there. It is strong against humans and lags woefully behind against Angels.

Magicians - Are still powerful, but will suffer from the boon in silver play.

Romans - I expect Romans to be a powerful sleeper hit. Domitian is powerful and Vitellius is great as always.

Crimson - It blocks, not sure how it will preform. Wild Dogs gives animals a good boost.

Liner Abuse - Is dead. Finally.

From my preliminary sample of 20ish games, the common score is 5-4. Battles happen frequently and can use an upwards of ten or more cards. Typically games have a large climatic battle that decides the winner of the game. Redemption is a blast right now and almost nothing is bad. I tip my hat to the playtesters and designers. The Battle Phase is back.
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Offline Gabe

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Re: Predictions and Meta Discussion.
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2017, 09:32:47 AM »
+1
Your assessment seems pretty spot on to me. Well done!

There are a few things I didn't see mentioned which I think are worth bringing up.

NT White has also gained The Twenty-Four Elders, an extremely strong finisher in the right deck.

Disciples are notably absent from your list. They've gained a few new tools this year. Despite their lack of play in high level tournaments the past two years they were already a very strong offense.

I'll be surprised if some form of a Job deck isn't a thing. Initially it will use Job (Pi) but obviously switch to the promo version at Nationals.

Quote from: Liner
Reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated.
:laugh:
But seriously, liner abuse has taken a few hits this year. That's for the best. It's not dead, but you actually have to work now to make it happen. Hopefully that means it's played a lot less.
Have you visited the Land of Redemption today?

Offline Red

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Re: Predictions and Meta Discussion.
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2017, 09:37:08 AM »
+2
Your assessment seems pretty spot on to me. Well done!

There are a few things I didn't see mentioned which I think are worth bringing up.

NT White has also gained The Twenty-Four Elders, an extremely strong finisher in the right deck.

Disciples are notably absent from your list. They've gained a few new tools this year. Despite their lack of play in high level tournaments the past two years they were already a very strong offense.

I'll be surprised if some form of a Job deck isn't a thing. Initially it will use Job (Pi) but obviously switch to the promo version at Nationals.

Quote from: Liner
Reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated.
:laugh:
But seriously, liner abuse has taken a few hits this year. That's for the best. It's not dead, but you actually have to work now to make it happen. Hopefully that means it's played a lot less.
I'm not expecting Job to be a great deck until Nationals, which is why I left it off my initial lead off. My exclusion of disciples was on purpose, as I view it to be significantly less powerful than the other options. I am very surprised I left off 24 Elders, it's incredible.
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TheHobbit13

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Re: Predictions and Meta Discussion.
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2017, 09:41:19 AM »
+2
I feel like the best type 1 decks this year are the ones that splash angels and demons most efficiently. Personally when I have played judges in the past I only used captain, auto, and secret name, but now Michael to old tsa is so good and to have two cbn bands in a fast offense is great. But regardless I think if you are playing an offense without Michael or a defense without red dragon, you are doing something wrong. I will say though, in my experience last year, that the new set release schedule makes the meta weird, it pretty much makes the top decks more effective then they should be and the other ones are just more random and unrefined than usual.

Offline The Guardian

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Re: Predictions and Meta Discussion.
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2017, 10:46:41 AM »
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Another defense I think will see some play is the "Multi" defense that I previewed in my second Playtest Preview article on LoR. The versatility of the Seals and Bowls is amazing.

That deck will be heavily countered by Throne and Job, but against other offenses, I think it will do quite well.
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Offline Watchman

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Re: Predictions and Meta Discussion.
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2017, 12:25:13 PM »
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and older tools ranging from Chenaniah and Garden Tomb support

I think Chenaniah would take great umbridge knowing that you called him an old tool. :o
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Offline Sadness

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Re: Predictions and Meta Discussion.
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2017, 12:42:32 PM »
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I'm guessing 'liner' refers to the 2-3 liner lost souls card.
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kariusvega

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Re: Predictions and Meta Discussion.
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2017, 02:51:41 PM »
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Clay Variants.. Still finding all kinds of ludicrous combos with clay because it's on so many things!!
Clay seems to benefit from this set in every way similarly to Cloud and I have only seen one person playing Faith of Gideon in Disciples (Shout out to Wyatt!!)

Angels - I've been outdrawing throne with angels xD

Throne is legit as.. Get's a ton in this set just from the aforementioned, that there is a
cure to Moses so Melchizedek can shine. ASP/Not Alone - Frog Demons. The biggest counter factor though is Outsiders/Woes/Image which can definitely slow it down. I do like Brian's Nationals build utilizing Samuel more for CBN enh. Watchman for Isaiah is a huge factor here though, with the Reserve allowing for Ezekiel to enter the picture. Isaiah's CBN protect combined with Temple Dedication AND a recurring play first Not Alone off of ET is ludicrously good ;)

Demons are very powerful but the extend the battle aspect of demons is most formidable. Combining Gates with Site Guard and Madness and potentially Charms/Unknown Nation/ etc
Now they have stronger characters to toss in along with previous bosses such as KoT not to mention d9s for days off of Messenger and Damsel

Brown- Frog Demons with Job's Wife/Friends plus Ahaziah is not slow. Combine this with
some of the best battle winners in the game and some crimson and it's legit as

Crimson - I see crimson as more of a splash simply for Hypocrisy/Mayhem
It's such a devastating combo and will continue to be. I think Hypocrisy should be in any deck playing Mayhem

Liner Abuse will shift to Hormah use rather than soul removal IF people adopt GoYs. I predict there may be a Liner/Hormah in the Nats winner deck this year, judging from the nats winners for several years passed

The ones you didn't mention:

Priests! - Priests are incredible!! Every Tribe/Melchizedek being just one part of this, but Ram's Horn?? With Three Woes being able to negate Ram's Horn you can give multiple Priests CBI battle winners for the entire game, combine this with Feasts or Throne and they have plenty of speed with Gifts and Offerings which can be recurred, and becomes a play first-able CBI regardless of protection battle winner!! Wow!!

Disciples - Are lit.. They have access to all of the faith cards, John the Apocalyptist with My Lord and My God is amazing, Thaddeus is more powerful than ever, plenty of drawing.

Disciples/Revelation Angels - are very powerful as well with John the Apocalyptist, Michael/TSA, and Angel of Might especially. Multiple ways through chump blocks, multiple ways to negate Coliseum if need be, plus the ol Reach Aocp :) and Herod's Temple!

Green with Major/Minor Prophets - I have seen no one even trying The Watchman, but have conceptualized some phenomenal decks with them. They have power house enhancements and access to heroes now who can slaughter some of the best defenses in the game, along with speed from Broken Cov/Faith of Samuel/Hur+Gifts

Other thoughts:

You Will Remain should be in every deck..

Covenant of Prayer should be in every deck.. Phenomenal work on this card

Ends of the Earth and or Imitate Soul are doing work against soul drought + Melchizedek/Barnabas and other great soul gen options from before

I totally see the 5/4 games and big battles.. Super fun!! Even in the games where there are few battles to starts they all seem to culminate

Woes/Image/Censer - At least one of these should be in just about every deck.. I find that there is usually only 1 or 2 "problem" cards on the table at any given time, and these offer great solutions to those along with being able to be searched out, two from the Reserve

The Reserve?? I am so excited to see how people implement this. It's amazing to build a deck with 10 in the Reserve, and only 47-48 cards in the deck.. and try to have to figure out what else to add XD instead of building a deck with 56 cards and trying to figure out what to cut! Haha

What a great time for Redemption!!! Blessings!

Offline Watchman

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Re: Predictions and Meta Discussion.
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2017, 07:47:09 AM »
+1
In regards to Karius' post, I threw in My Lord and My God recently with John TA already in my deck (the only character MLMG can be played on in my deck) and what has been the result? Battle winner every time, even if it can only be played on one character (Angel of the Winds and Ends of the Earth definitely helps this combo, plus the extra bonus of negating an evil or neutral card out in a territory if John is using EotE since John is a missionary). So definitely a must-have if you're running John TA.

I put The Watchman in one of my tournament-winning decks with Hosea, Ezekiel and Isaiah already in it and I've found that he's been a great addition to my offense. So there is someone else out there using him. :)
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Offline Josh

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Re: Predictions and Meta Discussion.
« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2017, 08:15:35 AM »
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One defense that hasn't been mentioned yet is Philistines with a Gray splash.  Philistines have fantastic stand-alone characters and overwhelming negates; their problem has always been speed.

Insert RoJ, and now they have the Black/Gold Outsiders, instantly one of the best ECs in the game.  Couple that with two new powerful Black/Gray EEs that are not conditional to Pharisees/Sadducees (they just make them better), and now Vitellius can find his way into the deck without being a guaranteed sacrificial lamb. 

And let's not forget the new Ananias, who has a stand-alone ability that easily rivals the big Phillies.

Keeping in mind that the Philistines' toy from CoW was Achish with a potential D2, and that he's CBN if David is in play.  Throne/Philistines with a Vitellius splash seems like a legit deck to me.
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