Author Topic: Are Judges Still Viable? (Read 11241 times)

Kevinthedude · « **Reply #50 on:** January 24, 2018, 05:11:50 PM »

Quote from: TheHobbit on January 24, 2018, 05:08:52 PM

Falling Away is unnecessary for the ban list as offense is inherently more powerful than defense, regardless of Sog, NJ, TSC. If Aotl is banned then, sure. If the meta shifts to the defensive side in an unfortunate way, it can always be added later. Besides Guardian is essentially banned then as well... I would recommend adding 3 woes to that list also for it's ability to cbn negate in battle, but let's not pretend like this is a serious conversation until the presses are closed.

Looks like only W FA is banned, not CoW FA and I would guess it's because "unrescuing" souls is deemed unfun by some and if nothing else drags out the game in a format that I assume (not having played it) is prone to longer than usual games.

NathanW · « **Reply #51 on:** January 24, 2018, 05:12:43 PM »

how about a no dominant category

maybe call it "type Mo" (mortals)

TheHobbit13 · « **Reply #52 on:** January 24, 2018, 05:14:30 PM »

Yeah, I should have said Women's FA. But that's kinda my point.. It's not an obvious ban so it could easily be tested in and out. I would love to test something like this at nationals and for sure intermittently on lackey!!!

jbeers285 · « **Reply #53 on:** January 24, 2018, 05:14:42 PM »

There used to be a thing called North West that only allowed 2 dominants. No other restrictions are bands were implemented with that I don't believe.

Red Wing · « **Reply #54 on:** January 24, 2018, 05:18:45 PM »

I would also ban Haman's Plot.

Quote from: jbeers285 on January 24, 2018, 05:14:42 PM

There used to be a thing called North West that only allowed 2 dominants. No other restrictions are bands were implemented with that I don't believe.

Type NW had an exactly 70 card deck requirement.

I've forgotten how fun these "let's fix the game" threads are.

Josh · « **Reply #55 on:** January 24, 2018, 05:31:46 PM »

One thing to keep in mind about the worry that Type Ban games would go too long... SoG/NJ/TSC loses you two rescues, yes. But FA (Wo)/Liner stops two autoblocks. They wash. And Mayhem is usually played negatively (as in, it almost always "sets a player back").

Plus, we only go to 4.

Kevinthedude · « **Reply #56 on:** January 24, 2018, 05:35:09 PM »

Quote from: jmhartz on January 24, 2018, 05:31:46 PM

One thing to keep in mind about the worry that Type Ban games would go too long... SoG/NJ/TSC loses you two rescues, yes. But FA (Wo)/Liner stops two autoblocks. They wash.

Liner isn't even close to auto include anymore (IMO) and CoW FA is a block most games. I think the format will have inevitably longer games (Going to 4 certainly helps though) but only by a slight amount. It looks like a really interesting format, I'll definitely be making Red Wing test it with me.

Josh · « **Reply #57 on:** January 25, 2018, 09:34:38 AM »

Quote from: Red Wing on January 24, 2018, 05:18:45 PM

I would also ban Haman's Plot.

Haman's Plot was on our banlist back in 2011, but I've not seen it played much recently, so I didn't think of it.

Honestly, the next card I'd ban would be Hezekiah's Signet Ring. And if 3 Woes would make the banlist, then I'd definitely take HSR with it, as Woes is one of the few things (along with Reserve access) actually keeping HSR in check.

Quote from: Kevinthedude on January 24, 2018, 05:35:09 PM

It looks like a really interesting format, I'll definitely be making Red Wing test it with me.

I just don't have much time to play these days, with recently joining the Board of a non-profit ministry I help with as well as working on the new set. My goal for 2018 was to play minimum 1 game per week on Lackey, but I've not kept to that so far

If I know of free time when I'll be able to play, I'll let you and Red Wing know to see if you can play Type Ban with me.

Red Wing · « **Reply #58 on:** January 25, 2018, 09:52:59 AM »

Without Woes and SoG, I would definitely consider DoN a staple, so I don't think HSR needs a ban.

Josh · « **Reply #59 on:** January 25, 2018, 10:34:28 AM »

Quote from: Red Wing on January 25, 2018, 09:52:59 AM

Without Woes and SoG, I would definitely consider DoN a staple, so I don't think HSR needs a ban.

I pretty much agree, which is why HSR isn't on the ban list yet.

My reasoning for it was more along the lines of "There's almost no reason to not include HSR in a deck, it is incredibly powerful and asymetrical, and if drawn early by an opponent and I don't get my counter quickly, the game is usually no fun". And since so many offenses search out their drawing power, HSR effectively protects itself by slowing down how quickly the opponent can get a counter to get rid of it.

Type Ban is dynamic; if one deck or card is astronomically more powerful than other decks/cards, the players playing Type Ban put their heads together and make a consensus ban

The Guardian · « **Reply #60 on:** January 25, 2018, 10:38:25 AM »

I honestly haven't seen HSR used much at all since RoJ released.

Red Wing · « **Reply #61 on:** January 25, 2018, 10:58:15 AM »

Quote from: The Guardian on January 25, 2018, 10:38:25 AM

I honestly haven't seen HSR used much at all since RoJ released.

This has been my experience as well. It's definitely a solid option but I am Creator/YWR/Cov. of Prayer are staples in every balanced/aggro deck. Some decks will also need a thematic specific artifact like CwD/Grail/U&T/Temple art, so that just doesn't leave much room for anything else in the average T1 deck.

TheJaylor · « **Reply #62 on:** January 25, 2018, 01:30:53 PM »

As a fairly dedicated Judges player, I'd say they're definitely still viable, especially with the die down of Coliseum. I piloted my Judges deck to a 5-2-1 10th place at Nats, losing to Josiah's Throne and Jay's martyr/prophet concoction and I barely held on to a tie against Josh's noisy martyrs. Albeit, I can't say that I saw a whole lot of other judges among the players at the top tables (unless they had a question...), so maybe I just got lucky. I will concede the fact that martyrs will out-perform judges more often than not but I would say they're still viable.

Oh, sorry, did we move on to "let's fix the game in this mostly unrelated thread" again?

Ironisaac · « **Reply #63 on:** January 25, 2018, 01:51:33 PM »

Quote from: KoalaKing on January 25, 2018, 01:30:53 PM

As a fairly dedicated Judges player, I'd say they're definitely still viable, especially with the die down of Coliseum. I piloted my Judges deck to a 5-2-1 10th place at Nats, losing to Josiah's Throne and Jay's martyr/prophet concoction and I barely held on to a tie against Josh's noisy martyrs. Albeit, I can't say that I saw a whole lot of other judges among the players at the top tables (unless they had a question...), so maybe I just got lucky. I will concede the fact that martyrs will out-perform judges more often than not but I would say they're still viable.

Oh, sorry, did we move on to "let's fix the game in this mostly unrelated thread" again?

What defense were you using? Was your deck mostly standard judges, or did it have some of the cloud ones mixed in as well?

TheJaylor · « **Reply #64 on:** January 25, 2018, 02:00:05 PM »

Quote from: Ironisaac on January 25, 2018, 01:51:33 PM

Quote from: KoalaKing on January 25, 2018, 01:30:53 PM
As a fairly dedicated Judges player, I'd say they're definitely still viable, especially with the die down of Coliseum. I piloted my Judges deck to a 5-2-1 10th place at Nats, losing to Josiah's Throne and Jay's martyr/prophet concoction and I barely held on to a tie against Josh's noisy martyrs. Albeit, I can't say that I saw a whole lot of other judges among the players at the top tables (unless they had a question...), so maybe I just got lucky. I will concede the fact that martyrs will out-perform judges more often than not but I would say they're still viable.

Oh, sorry, did we move on to "let's fix the game in this mostly unrelated thread" again?

What defense were you using? Was your deck mostly standard judges, or did it have some of the cloud ones mixed in as well?

I was running a Crimson defense with some Babs and Animals splash.

I think Joshua, Moses, and Faith of Samson were my only offensive Cloud cards. The rest was fairly standard except for a Watchman with Zeke in the reserve to use the DAEs that work with my defense and Sam, Dave, Moses, and Zeke on offense.

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Author Topic: Are Judges Still Viable? (Read 11241 times)

Kevinthedude

Re: Are Judges Still Viable?

NathanW

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TheHobbit13

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jbeers285

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Red Wing

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Josh

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Kevinthedude

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Josh

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Red Wing

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Josh

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The Guardian

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Red Wing

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TheJaylor

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Ironisaac

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TheJaylor

Re: Are Judges Still Viable?