Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Redemption® Resources and Thinktank => Topic started by: Cameron the Conqueror on August 14, 2009, 11:55:12 AM
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Wow, these are really cool promos. Spirit as a Dove is really, really powerful. SoG or NJ anyone?
(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.redemptionreg.com%2FREG%2FLinkedDocuments%2FGoshen%2520%2528P%2529.gif&hash=3a53455c493ed603f11f9b9cbca9bc0f48573e0f) (https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.redemptionreg.com%2FREG%2FLinkedDocuments%2FShobach%2520%2528P%2529.gif&hash=7d4fa57be023779c3066116fa3cc0060e3673bcc) (https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.redemptionreg.com%2FREG%2FLinkedDocuments%2FSpirit%2520as%2520a%2520Dove%2520%2528P%2529.gif&hash=b5077d3b3af70d38600cad2f212e0190f9729f3f)
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I got SHOT DOWN when I posted just NAMES of the new promo's! The moment I saw Shobach I loved him...imagine having Naaman with his "horsee" and now Shobach with a "horsee" from a different brigade! Spirit as a Dove is pretty good too! Play a deck with that, green Search and Gray False Peace. Search your deck three times for dominants or whatever your heart desires!
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well, since the names were posted by a mod and these pics come from the REG, I think it is safe. If not, delete away.
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Just when NT White offense was arguably the least used strategy in the game, we get Spirit as a Dove. Now that might make your TGT deck viable, but still, White is pretty weak.
Yikes.
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Just when NT White offense was arguably the least used strategy in the game, we get Spirit as a Dove. Now that might make your TGT deck viable, but still, White is pretty weak.
Yikes.
Right? White might be right on par with red now... maybe.
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White has it's power with covenants. I agree it is weak, but IMO red is definitely the worse. If you get the covenant combo with BotC, white can actually be pretty evil.
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Just when NT White offense was arguably the least used strategy in the game, we get Spirit as a Dove. Now that might make your TGT deck viable, but still, White is pretty weak.
Yikes.
Right? White might be right on par with red now... maybe.
Nah. Red has always had The Buckler going for it, but now you can recur it with A Soldier's Prayer. Red is way above white.
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I don't see how Goshen is useful in any way, would someone mind explaining it to me?
I see it as, instead of discarding a hero you place it in Goshen, but then your hero is just stuck in the fortress.
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You can remove heroes from Goshen during Prep phase just like the original version. The new one just isn't very clear IMO.
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That ability isn't on the card. Why are you assuming you can do it?
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I do like shobach but i don't like the fact that the way the ability is worded you'll have to put the different colo weapon on him in battle.
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You can remove heroes from Goshen during Prep phase just like the original version. The new one just isn't very clear IMO.
If that's true, than I guess I see the usefulness of it, although the chance of Moses getting poisoned is pretty low ::).
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The rulebook says that you can add or remove characters in a fortress during your Prep Phase "as described on the fortress." Since Goshen does not describe any removal process, your heroes are stuck there until either a "Play As/Errata" is issued, or the new REG/rulebook says otherwise.
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mwhahahaha look! another card to pwn with TGT :-*
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mwhahahaha look! another card to pwn with TGT :-*
pwn? hahahaha
You must not have seen the new set ;) Face it, TGT is basically dead.
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Wow... I bet that Goshen will never be used unless the following happens.
1) Heroes that are discarded by SA are considered to have */0 or less.
2) You can remove the heroes in your prep phase.
In which case, everyone will use it.
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Wow... I bet that Goshen will never be used unless the following happens.
1) Heroes that are discarded by SA are considered to have */0 or less.
2) You can remove the heroes in your prep phase.
In which case, everyone will use it.
It must be a mistake.
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mwhahahaha look! another card to pwn with TGT :-*
pwn? hahahaha
You must not have seen the new set ;) Face it, TGT is basically dead.
Go ahead and laugh but when I come around and beat you don't say I didn't warn you
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Shobach would have helped my T2 Anewbedoobedoo deck! :o
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Wow... I bet that Goshen will never be used unless the following happens.
1) Heroes that are discarded by SA are considered to have */0 or less.
2) You can remove the heroes in your prep phase.
In which case, everyone will use it.
It must be a mistake.
+1 You must be able to remove heroes from Goshen, otherwise it would be a useless card. It must be an oversight. Most, if not all, promos are powerful cards, so I can't see any reason why Goshen wouldn't allow you to remove them during your Preparation Phase.
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Most, if not all, promos are powerful cards
*coughSPLITALTARcough* ;)
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no, *coughLovecouge*
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*coughAngelFoodcough*
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rephrase: Most Promos from 2001+ are powerful
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Thorn in the Flesh.
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rephrase: Most Promos from 2001+ are powerful
Thank you.
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lol wow, nice mess up with goshen cactus. i didnt expect many mistakes with card wording, especially after split altar. :)
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Doesn't everyone use Raising of the Saints? =D
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Doesn't everyone use Raising of the Saints? =D
I do! It makes a great proxy card. ;)
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If a fort says it holds cards, then the default is that they can be added or removed during the prep phase only. If another timing/method of released is given, then that replaces the default.
Goshen heroes can be added or removed as you wish during the prep phase. It is very nice in a deck with Genesis or Exodus heroes, and fairly useful still in decks where you need to protect your heroes.
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Playtesters and their never ending quest to use as few words as possible.... lol
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If a fort says it holds cards, then the default is that they can be added or removed during the prep phase only. If another timing/method of released is given, then that replaces the default.
Goshen heroes can be added or removed as you wish during the prep phase. It is very nice in a deck with Genesis or Exodus heroes, and fairly useful still in decks where you need to protect your heroes.
How about Potters Field? It never says when they can be taken out, just like Kerith Ravine. Both are in Set-Aside. Can I pull heroes out of potters field during my prep phase?
"Set this site aside. Holder's Heroes to be discarded are instead placed in this site, Treat them as discarded Heroes."
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No, don't be ridiculous. That would be broken and abusive. I'd like to official found the "Ban Potter's field" group. Even if we don't ban it for its epic power, it needs bannage because we abbreviate it as Pot's Field.
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But we all know that heroes in Kerith Raving can be removed and those in Potter's Field can't.
We need a constant ruling.
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But we all know that heroes in Kerith Raving can be removed and those in Potter's Field can't.
We need a constant ruling.
Exactly. Also. Bryon said that unless it specifies when cards can be placed or removed, then it defaults to prep phase. However... Goshen DOES specify. He then said you can still place heroes into it whenever you want. How does that work? Can I take heroes out of Chamber of Angels a few turns early? Sure, it specifies when I remove them, but goshen lets me place heroes into it dispite having an "entrance clause." So, why can't I ignore chambers "exit clause" and just remove them in my prep phase? Or Potters Field? Or Tartaros?
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Just breathe. You'll feel a lot better.
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Lol, I still wanna know if my logic is innacurate or not. According to Bryon, all those examples I listed should work.
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I understand what you are saying, but this issue was just brought up. Give it some time to work itself out. For now, Goshen does what it used to do, and a little bit more. I'm sure a Play As or Errata will find its way into the REG eventually.
There is a simple solution to these kinds of problems. I should be a playtester. ;D
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I understand what you are saying, but this issue was just brought up. Give it some time to work itself out. For now, Goshen does what it used to do, and a little bit more. I'm sure a Play As or Errata will find its way into the REG eventually.
There is a simple solution to these kinds of problems. I should be a playtester. ;D
And me. Not bragging or anything, but I feel like I have a pretty good eye for wierd things like this. However, I would be perfectly happy if Goshen just got a play as / errata, and all the other cards worked as normal.
Any time a rule like this that goes against anything else comes up, I find the strongest argument is to apply the same logic to everything else and see how it works. In this case, it makes potters field absolutely broken.
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I feel like I have a pretty good eye for wierd things like this
This is exactly why you can't be a play tester. Play testers are supposed to overlook many flaws in a card so the players can heavily abuse it for a short while (before everyone screams "broken!!oen1!!")
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I feel like I have a pretty good eye for wierd things like this
This is exactly why you can't be a play tester. Play testers are supposed to overlook many flaws in a card so the players can heavily abuse it for a short while (before everyone screams "broken!!oen1!!")
:rollin:
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Actually, I don't have a good eye for those sorts of things. I just want to be a playtester because I'm selfish.
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That and you get to dangle spoilers infront of everyone like carrots.
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Carrots? Is that just to help them see the spoilers better? I would think if we trying the temptation route we should use chocolate cake or pizza.
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"Set this site aside. Holder's Heroes to be discarded are instead placed in this site, Treat them as discarded Heroes."
this is why its different!
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I noticed that, but regardless, what is stopping me from taking them out?
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Really, if "treat them as discarded heroes" needs clarification: Discarded heroes can't be placed into your territory on a whim. They must either be healed (if it happens the same turn they are discarded, or else a card must return them to territory from their present location.
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Ok, how about tartaros? It doesnt say the demons are classified as anything else. Here is my logic split into different thoughts.
1) Kerith Ravine is set aside and you can add/remove cards in prep phase.
2) You said unless it is not clarified, then you can add/remove cards in prep phase.
2a) However, right after that, you said you can add heroes to goshen freely, even though it specifies how heroes are to be added into the fortress.
3) Tartaros specifies both how cards enter and exit, but apparently, I can still add/remove in my prep phase regardless, based on the point above.
See where I'm going?
*EDIT*
The same general logic applies to the following cards as well
The Name of the Lord, Chamber of Angels, Demonic Stronghold, and City of Refuge.
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Truth be told, the older forts (Angel Wars and older) are really sloppy. The new ones (the ones with identifiers) were supposed to be clearer.
Goshen was printed with Rock of Ages, so it should have been one of the clear ones. Apparently, when we added the extra way to let the heroes enter, we should have clarified that they can enter the default way, too. That was a good catch on your part.
So, Goshen DOES need errata/clarifiaction: You can put your heroes in Goshen during your prep phase.
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So, Goshen DOES need errata/clarifiaction: You can put your characters in Goshen during your prep phase.
Thats fine with me!
As I've said in other threads, while having some overpowered forts would be nice, what I really want is consistancy. A simple errata would keep the rules for forts nice and consistant. :)
*EDIT*
Also, I was being serious earlier about wanting to be a playtester. I'd love to help catch this stuff earlier to avoid headaches and confusion.
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i thought smokey was the one to catch it earlier.
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I haven't (and probably never will have) read this whole thread, but...dude! Spirit as a Dove is so going in my speed deck!
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i thought smokey was the one to catch it earlier.
Smokey the Playtester... Woo-hoo! ;D
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i thought smokey was the one to catch it earlier.
He noticed that Goshen's SA wasnt very useful as it was, then byron said how it should be played, then I broke the game. :D
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i thought smokey was the one to catch it earlier.
He noticed that Goshen's SA wasnt very useful as it was, then byron said how it should be played, then I broke the game. :D
We're the game breaking new team of playtesters. (Imo)
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Did I miss the reason why Shobach is not available on the new Tournament Application? I saw Spirit of a Dove and Goshen were there.
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spirit as a dove can search for sog and nj ::) dont know if anyone else said that... anyways, how do you get heroes out of goshen? i may stick with the old one in teams :/
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spirit as a dove can search for sog and nj ::) dont know if anyone else said that... anyways, how do you get heroes out of goshen? i may stick with the old one in teams :/
You obviously did not read the thread. Read first, then ask later.
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yeah i read l8r... i know now... it is confusing...
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New Jerusalem has a proverbs reference, so you can't get it
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thats strange...
*btw this is my 500th post yay*
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Did I miss the reason why Shobach is not available on the new Tournament Application? I saw Spirit of a Dove and Goshen were there.
It will be released in early 2010, as the second local promo (Panic Demon) was in 2009.
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That makes sense.
Variety is the spice of life. - too lazy to look up author
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but you can search for Grapes with Spirit of a Dove...
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i love these cards!! :thumbup: Goshen is a must have for Genesis decks ;D
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Did I miss the reason why Shobach is not available on the new Tournament Application? I saw Spirit of a Dove and Goshen were there.
Rob generally spaces them out. Maybe he'll target Shobach for release after Jan 1.
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My question is: Where are our RTS updates? ;D
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Why is Goshen a must have for Genesis decks? Doesn't it only stop your guys from dying to poison/decrease cards?
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Goshen is a must have for Wrath of Satan decks. ;)
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Yeah, I like how Goshen now can hold as many heroes as you want.
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Why is Goshen a must have for Genesis decks? Doesn't it only stop your guys from dying to poison/decrease cards?
You can activate Crown of Thorns and not kill off your own Genesis heroes like Benjamin and Zebulun, but instead give them automatic initiative.
I'll leave this up so that the following quotes make sense, but just ignore it.
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Lol, was that a joke?
Goshen is definitely the most powerful protect fort ever devised. Thanks, Cactus! I no longer need to fear Great Image.
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Yes you do.
P.S. YMT, Thorns decreases ECs not HCs
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Lol, was that a joke?
No that was not a joke. It was a mistake. ;D
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Sometimes things seem so obvious to me I just can't tell. :D
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Lol, was that a joke?
Goshen is definitely the most powerful protect fort ever devised. Thanks, Cactus! I no longer need to fear Great Image.
Instead, you can fear everything that discards fortresses because if they discard it with all your heroes in there, YOU LOSE :o.
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Goshen is a must have for Wrath of Satan decks. ;)
True. However, as far as I know, not all Genesis decks use Wrath of Satan.
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You seem to think that only Genesis Heroes can use this fortress.
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You seem to think that only Genesis Heroes can use this fortress.
He was responding to someone who said that this card is a must-have for Genesis decks, since he was wondering why such a claim would be true.
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Why is Goshen a must have for Genesis decks? Doesn't it only stop your guys from dying to poison/decrease cards?
Correcting my previous erroneous example, if your opponent had Plagued with Diseases active, you won't have to lose Benjamin (or Zebulun if you have more Redeemed Souls).
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I don't like how the new king can only use this ability. However, I do like it because I had this card idea a while ago... was I an unfluence for this?
Goshen is worthless, I'm glad it's only for local.
Spirit as a Dove is EXCELLENT.
Also... when you guys say white is week, is that like a "black is week" forum joke, or are you serious? Cause white is pretty amazing nowadays.
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Took time to read...
Still lost
Can or Can't you pull Heros OUT of Goshen during your perp phase?
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If a fort says it holds cards, then the default is that they can be added or removed during the prep phase only. If another timing/method of released is given, then that replaces the default.
Goshen heroes can be added or removed as you wish during the prep phase. It is very nice in a deck with Genesis or Exodus heroes, and fairly useful still in decks where you need to protect your heroes.
Apparently, when we added the extra way to let the heroes enter, we should have clarified that they can enter the default way, too. That was a good catch on your part.
So, Goshen DOES need errata/clarifiaction: You can put your heroes in Goshen during your prep phase.
Also, Goshen is being re-discussed here (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/index.php?topic=18142.0).
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Well, until further clarified, I say let's play Goshen how it was meant to be played.
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Well, until further clarified, I say let's play Goshen how it was meant to be played.
I agree! And let's play Split Altar how it was meant to be played. :)
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And let's play Adino's Spear and Battle Prayer as they were meant to be played! ::)