Poll

Cascade Negate statements

I understand it fully and want to keep it intact.
I partially understand it and want to keep it intact.
I don't care.
I partially understand it and want it to go away.
I understand it fully and want it to go away.
I want to keep it but only until it hits a CBN or CBI ability--nothing after those should be cascaded.

Author Topic: Cascade Negate  (Read 4537 times)

Offline Kevinthedude

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Re: Cascade Negate
« Reply #25 on: July 26, 2018, 05:24:18 PM »
0
So when you were playing without cascade negate rules and a situation like this came up:

Draw ability happens, Revealer LS is drawn and activates.

Draw is then negated putting Revealer LS back on top of deck.

Did you leave the revealed cards on the bottom of the deck? (Essentially allowing Revealer to reveal 4 cards total--2 with the negated draw and 2 with the actual draw)

Yep

Offline The Guardian

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Re: Cascade Negate
« Reply #26 on: July 26, 2018, 05:27:34 PM »
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Interesting. I suppose it's just the years of playing with cascade (and mostly understanding the principle behind it), but that actually seems counter-intuitive to me...
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Offline Kevinthedude

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Re: Cascade Negate
« Reply #27 on: July 26, 2018, 05:43:33 PM »
+2
Interesting. I suppose it's just the years of playing with cascade (and mostly understanding the principle behind it), but that actually seems counter-intuitive to me...

I understand how the way each player learned it likely is the most intuitive way to them, but whenever I've taken a step back and tried to think about it as a new player, or think about how I would teach either version of negate to a new player, the reason I always end up sticking with cascade being less intuitive is that without cascade, you can always trust that the only thing you have to undo is the text on the card you negated. It lets me use illustrations like thinking of what the opposite of what the negated card's ability would be and then just doing that. When I tell new players encounter a negated draw their first headache is often remembering which of the cards in their hand they just drew and which they had before, then after that figure that out it's often a little overwhelming for them to piece together the abilities of the souls they drew and all the characters they banded in off the banding enhancement they had drawn and then now instead of just being able to tell them, "think about the opposite of what this card does, since you drew three and is was negated now you put the three back" they have to go get the 5 lawless cards off the bottom of their deck, remember which evil card in hand they got from it, put them all back on top, etc.

It's easy for those of us to have been playing a long time to forget that visualizing the process for negating certain cards, even without cascade in the picture, is quite a bit of effort when you haven't done and undone that ability hundreds of times. Sure they can slowly piece it together but now they've spent a bunch of brain power undoing five things that they could have spent planning out their strategy for the next few turns. Cascade drastically increases the amount of mental overheard a lot of scenarios require, especially for new players.

Offline Jeremystair

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Re: Cascade Negate
« Reply #28 on: July 26, 2018, 06:38:56 PM »
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Don't forget about the original cascade negates.  ;) Even if we get rid of it we will still have it in some form, Unless set rotation happens.

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