Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Redemption® Resources and Thinktank => Topic started by: Gabe on November 02, 2016, 09:47:49 PM
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I wonderful explanation by Doug here (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/new-card-ideas/paul-illustration-vote-player-created-card-part-vii/msg562153/#msg562153) got me curious, who are the martyrs in Redemption?
Obviously we have:
Stephen
James (son of Zebudee)
Paul
Peter
Others?
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John the Baptist
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I believe Thomas was too. If you want to count the OT prophets who were martyred for their faith then you can count just about every one of them!
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It's a pretty huge list if you count extra-biblical accounts of martyrdom.
http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=52264&forum=40 (http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=52264&forum=40)
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Might be good to start with a definition. There might end up being gray areas involving stated reasons vs. motives. e.g. either tradition for the death of Ezekiel
... very interesting classifier!
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Harambe
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[Insert rant about how it seems that my kids are more passionate and concerned about a gorilla who was killed rather than their friends who are going to hell apart from Jesus.]
Sorry about that...just a little youth minister annoyance coming out there. I live near Cincinnati which only amplifies it. At least I didn't type it all out. :D
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every disiple execpt John
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You guys have shown me that this is a far more interesting discussion than I first thought!
Might be good to start with a definition. There might end up being gray areas involving stated reasons vs. motives. e.g. either tradition for the death of Ezekiel
... very interesting classifier!
^^ this. I began the discussion from the perspective that Stephen was the "first martyr". Not sure where I got that but it's engrained and I hadn't questioned it before. Clearly John the Baptist died for his faith. As did many of the O.T. prophets.
The list Daniel linked is very helpful. Pol's suggestion, not so much. ;)
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I guess I have never thought of John the Baptist as a Martyr either because he was not killed because he was of a certain faith. His convictions or faith led to his death but Herod didn't imprison him because he was persecuting people of the Jewish faith or worried about his preaching of the coming messiah. His death was for personal reasons really. I would think it could go either way but I think the Catholic church believes him to be a martyr. I also remembered Stephen to be the first martyr also but that's probably because he was the first Christian martyr.
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White Robe (Rev 6:11)
Millstone Thrown Into The Sea (Rev 18:21-24)
The Fifth Seal (Rev 6:9)
Sawn In Two (Hebrews 11:37)
"If a martyr is discarded ..."
"X = # of Martyrs discarded ..."
Could end up being a viable theme. Maybe even introduce/include an alternate battle win condition like Primary Objective.
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I guess I have never thought of John the Baptist as a Martyr either because he was not killed because he was of a certain faith. His convictions or faith led to his death but Herod didn't imprison him because he was persecuting people of the Jewish faith or worried about his preaching of the coming messiah. His death was for personal reasons really. I would think it could go either way but I think the Catholic church believes him to be a martyr.
Agreed. The Bible is pretty clear Herodias had a grudge (Mark 6:19). That's a good example of the gray area.
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Could stick with good ol' wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_martyrs
OT might include:
Abel (Killed for his sacrifice - Genesis 4:3-8)
Zechariah son of Berekiah (Debate as to whether this is the prophet Zechariah - Matthew 23:35)
Other NT might include:
Antipas (Revelation 2:13)
The Two Witnesses (Revelation 11:7)
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My wife suggests a definition that includes those who were killed because they would not renounce their faith. That's a little more specific than "killed for their faith".
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The list of Martyrs is as follows:
Stephen
James (son of Zebedee)
James (brother of Jesus/leader in Jerusalem)
Peter
Paul
Mark
Philip
Andrew
Thomas
Thaddeus
Bartholomew
*** *** *********
*******
********
****** ******
******* *******
***** ****, *******
8)
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So It'll be every disciple but John and Judas, right? or no extra-biblical accounts? or only some?
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The list of Martyrs is as follows:
Stephen
James (son of Zebedee)
James (brother of Jesus/leader in Jerusalem)
Peter
Paul
Mark
Philip
Andrew
Thomas
Thaddeus
Bartholomew
*** *** *********
*******
********
****** ******
******* *******
***** ****, *******
8)
Antipas and the two witnesses fit in Guardian's hidden list there
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Yay for more (potential) hinting at Revelation stuff.
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I bet Justin is one of them too.
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as does Matthew and Matthias.....
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I would wager if revelation set is a thing there will be some generic cards that have the martyr tag.
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I find it ironic that this is being mentioned now as I had come up with the concept for Martyr's a few years back. The main thing I'd have for them would be that they get effects if discarded. Also, plenty of supports can be made from Revelation.
Also, could we have generic Martyr's as there are a few mentioned.
Don't forget the Martyr's souls who are under the altar when the Fifth Seal is opened. (Although that actually could be a support card for Martyrs)
Here are some of my old Martyr cards... (Wow these are 5 years old!) and this was before Clay was a thing so I made them Red.
http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/new-card-ideas/revelation-ideas-chapter-6-the-horsemen-and-martyrs/ (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/new-card-ideas/revelation-ideas-chapter-6-the-horsemen-and-martyrs/)
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I find it ironic that this is being mentioned now as I had come up with the concept for Martyr's a few years back. The main thing I'd have for them would be that they get effects if discarded. Also, plenty of supports can be made from Revelation.
Also, could we have generic Martyr's as there are a few mentioned.
Don't forget the Martyr's souls who are under the altar when the Fifth Seal is opened. (Although that actually could be a support card for Martyrs)
Here are some of my old Martyr cards... (Wow these are 5 years old!) and this was before Clay was a thing so I made them Red.
http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/new-card-ideas/revelation-ideas-chapter-6-the-horsemen-and-martyrs/ (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/new-card-ideas/revelation-ideas-chapter-6-the-horsemen-and-martyrs/)
I'm glad your excited for martyrs! I am too!
We're a long ways past the card and theme design and well into the stage of finalizing what we have for the new set to make sure things work as they're supposed to. The thematic nature of a "martyr" interacting with the game probably means there will be some overlap with your ideas even though the elders came up with them independently.
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I just find it funny that I might actually see my idea of Martyr's actually coming out now.
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I just find it funny that I might actually see my idea of Martyr's actually coming out now.
Correct, you created the idea of Martyrs.
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I just find it funny that I might actually see my idea of Martyr's actually coming out now.
Correct, you created the idea of Martyrs.
Can't quite detect sarcasm through my computer screen.
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I just find it funny that I might actually see my idea of Martyr's actually coming out now.
Correct, you created the idea of Martyrs.
Can't quite detect sarcasm through my computer screen.
Extremely sarcastic 8)
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I just find it funny that I might actually see my idea of Martyr's actually coming out now.
Correct, you created the idea of Martyrs.
Can't quite detect sarcasm through my computer screen.
Extremely sarcastic 8)
I didn't "invent" the idea, I'm just saying that I was messing around with it before I saw anyone else considering it.
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Martyrs as a theme have been suggested for years. Usually Red was suggested, but that was before Armor of God came to populate Red NT.
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It sounds like the possibility of a dominant might be in the new set. Perhaps a re-worked 'Christian Martyr'. Make it a split card similar to the Apostles version of Saul/Paul. Top of card is evil version of Christian Martyr-remove one good character, while bottom of the card is good version of Christian Martyr-remove one evil character. Or a separate good dominant 'The Fifth Seal'. It's action-remove one evil character.
Just my thoughts. God bless yall
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It sounds like the possibility of a dominant might be in the new set. Perhaps a re-worked 'Christian Martyr'. Make it a split card similar to the Apostles version of Saul/Paul. Top of card is evil version of Christian Martyr-remove one good character, while bottom of the card is good version of Christian Martyr-remove one evil character. Or a separate good dominant 'The Fifth Seal'. It's action-remove one evil character.
Just my thoughts. God bless yall
The Fifth Seal more likely would resurrect or Set-Aside Discarded Martyrs... not really D/C an EC...
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It sounds like the possibility of a dominant might be in the new set. Perhaps a re-worked 'Christian Martyr'. Make it a split card similar to the Apostles version of Saul/Paul. Top of card is evil version of Christian Martyr-remove one good character, while bottom of the card is good version of Christian Martyr-remove one evil character. Or a separate good dominant 'The Fifth Seal'. It's action-remove one evil character.
This is a really cool idea! Making a Dominant that is more than one card type could have some awesome in game application!
The Fifth Seal more likely would resurrect or Set-Aside Discarded Martyrs... not really D/C an EC...
Obviously that is what it would do if you made it. There are a lot of different ways to interpret and apply the scriptures, much less translate them into the mechanics of a card game. It's difficult to say that one person's idea is more accurate or more correct than another's. I've found that the best cards usually incorporate ideas from multiple people. That makes me really thankful that we have a team of elders to help with the new set(s) as well as a number of highly respected individuals that we consult.
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Sorry to 'resurrect' ;) an old thread, but is john the baptist considered a martyr? i noticed it was brought up at the beginning, but never resolved. it was decided that it was a "grey area" what is the current ruling on that?
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We decided that for purposes of our game definition the Martyrs began with Stephen.
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We decided that for purposes of our game definition the Martyrs began with Stephen.
Aww, that's too bad. he would have been awesome! Walk in with John, topdeck a convert, play BotL, draw three, and play the convert that you just topdecked.