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Author Topic: Cards to keep as-is (but update old wording) post-set rotation  (Read 10243 times)

Offline The Guardian

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Re: Cards to keep as-is (but update old wording) post-set rotation
« Reply #75 on: May 18, 2018, 02:16:00 PM »
+1
Ah, I see what you're saying. Basically if you remove the strongest options, all that means is that the next tier of options becomes the strongest (almost an inverse power creep in a sense).

In a meta with no CBN battle winners, characters like Michael, Thomas, Peter and Simon the Magician become the powerhouse characters.  8)
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Offline Kor

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Re: Cards to keep as-is (but update old wording) post-set rotation
« Reply #76 on: May 18, 2018, 02:29:31 PM »
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Exactly, especially with interrupt and win options.
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Offline Bobbert

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Re: Cards to keep as-is (but update old wording) post-set rotation
« Reply #77 on: May 18, 2018, 02:46:39 PM »
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Michael+Angel's Sword back in the meta, baby!

I think everyone is in agreement that CBN interrupt battlewinners are no fun to play against. Here's an interesting game design question to discuss: what combinations of these ARE okay?

I don't see anyone complaining about CBN negates like Ruthless, so I'll assume that those are fine. But what sort of conditions/drawbacks are needed to make a non-interrupting CBN battlewinner or a non-CBN interrupt+battlewinner balanced?
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Offline jesse

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Re: Cards to keep as-is (but update old wording) post-set rotation
« Reply #78 on: May 18, 2018, 03:21:43 PM »
0
Quote from: Gabe
That being said, some CBN removal is OK. When it comes to CBN removal a good rule of thumb is to think about how reliable it is to make it CBN. Does it rely on the opponent's deck building (David's Triumph, DMM, Ehud's Dagger)? Probably OK. Does it give the opponent an "easy" out (The Entrapping Pharisees)? Probably OK. Does it rely on a condition that is difficult to meet consistently (Convincing Miracle)? Probably OK. Is it only CBN a small number of characters (Valley of Salt, Zeal for the Lord)? TBH I'm on the fence with these. Does it rely on the opponent's choices in game (Scattered, Fo Samson, Fo Barak)? Probably OK. Does it provide a one time stall block situationally (Balaam's Disobedience)? Probably OK.

I feel like Gabe's recent post in this thread explains the conditions well. Basically, for CBN battle-winners to be balanced they need to not be easy to pull off.
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Offline The Schaefer

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Re: Cards to keep as-is (but update old wording) post-set rotation
« Reply #79 on: May 18, 2018, 06:56:06 PM »
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Id really hate to lose a lot of the interrupt and battle win cards simply because they have a cbn clause. I would suggest maybe using more conditional cbn stuff. An example would be like having unity to be cbn but otherwise be fully functional just without the cbn.

Looking at the meta cbn enhancements that are easy to use/reuse can be a problem but id argue that characters that have good initiative and can provide cbn are just as bad. Joseph, King Zed, and Demetrius are great examples. If you address things like this you can have things like ET > AOCP come back which can be just as bad. There are so many good options that hitting everything may be difficult because other options are still very good and can rise to the forefront. Chump blocks are another thing that can be out of hand. A great example is that almost all reserves will at least have 1 copy of a card like uzzah or hermogenes.

The process of figuring out what cards to keep as is post rotation and what is ok in general post rotation will likely be a long and difficult discussion that will not be perfect. CBN may be at the forefront of most conversations but CBN stuff isnt what dominates the meta right now. Some CBN options maybe but otherwise not as much as say recursion.
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Offline jesse

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Re: Cards to keep as-is (but update old wording) post-set rotation
« Reply #80 on: May 18, 2018, 07:12:29 PM »
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+1

Despite there being some problematic/OP cards out there, I feel like the meta is pretty wide open right now. We'll have to see what happens after FoM is released, but it seems to me that a good number of themes & strategies can legitimately be "top tier". That's not easy to achieve from a game design standpoint and as some have mentioned, may be difficult to retain post-rotation. I'm just glad though that the elders are always proactively working on making the game balanced and fun!  8)
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