Cactus Game Design Message Boards

Joseph is one of the most well know people in the old testament.  Most people have heard the stories of Joseph and the Coat of Many Colors, Joseph sold into slavery, Joseph unjustly thrown in prison, Joseph interpreting Pharaoh's dream and Joseph as ruler over Egypt being reunited with his family. While Joseph is a prominent figure in the Bible, he was not in the game of Redemption. When the 2011 set design began we knew that we wanted one of the tins to contain an offense based on Joseph, including a Joseph reprint in the blue brigade.

With the depth of things that happened in Joseph's life there were a lot of options to choose from when deciding on his special ability. Some people suggested that he should be able to hold Coat of Many Colors again, like the Patriarch version.  We had suggestions about him not being discarded and/or protecting others from discard. Several ideas were presented to release him if he was captured. Someone suggestion he should ignore female evil characters. Another said he should search for items related to his story, possibly Storehouse, Joseph's Silver Cup, Coat of Many Colors or Goshen.

We had already established a pattern for Jacob's sons, where their strength is based on their birth order, 12 being the first born and 1 being the youngest, making our Joseph reprint a 2/*. We kept the toughness of 7 from the Patriarch's version of Joseph, which was chosen because Joseph prophesied the 7 Years of Plenty and the 7 Years of Famine. We also talked about giving him a toughness of 2. Some suggested it should at least be 3 or 4 to ensure that Potipher's Wife gains initiative against him.

This is the first version of Joseph that we began testing:



After some initial testing most people wanted to change Joseph's stats to 2/2, like all the other sons of Jacob that were born after Simeon. One person suggested that if Joseph is captured and released he should grow in stature to represent how he rose to power in Egypt. We realized that the original ability of Joseph was too long and need to be shorted a bit.

About this time I searched through all the different ideas for Joseph reprints that had been posted on the boards over the years. I don't recall exactly which ideas were inspired from what I saw there but I know that some were. If you posted an idea for a new Joseph over the years and you see something similar to your idea, there's a chance you had an influence on this card.

This is what we came up with for our second round of testing:



Even as a 2/2, this version of Joseph wasn't very impressive in game play. As one of the most well known of Jacob's sons (at least during his lifetime) we wanted a Joseph that people would be inclined to add to their Genesis offense. This version just didn't seem like it was it.

The release from capture ability wasn't that useful, even though it was Biblically accurate. We decided to trade it in for this addition: " Good cards with "Joseph" in the title or reference cannot be negated." A quick search indicated that would include these cards:
Joseph
Reuben's Torn Clothes
Buying Grain
Joseph Before Pharaoh
Coat of Many Colors
Storehouse
Judah
Patriarch Travels (white)
Brothers' Reunion (white)
Ezekiel's Stick
And a few NT cards.

To compliment that ability we also decided to test Joseph with the identifier "Holds Coat of Many Colors". That really complimented the new ability well since it would benefit some off color enhancements, and it was a tribute to the original version of Joseph.



During the next two rounds of testing we didn't make any further changes to Joseph. We discussed how a character with a holds ability will work since that hadn't been done before. We decided it would work the same as weapons and warriors. We talked about the potential ways to abuse a Joseph who could just use Coat of Many Colors like a weapon and tested it thoroughly. The idea of adding green to Joseph was brought up and quickly dismissed.

Extremely enjoyable read Gabe; thanks for taking the time to write it up. It's always nice to have a look into the playtesting process. If possible, I'd love to see notes on Grapes, the various magicians from TxP (looking at one card is one thing, but seeing the way a theme forms would be extremely entertaining to me), and Susie (looking at the way the playtesters approached giving an already top-tier theme a decent sized boost).

Thanks for taking the time to show the thought that went into the various versions, really fun article 
I love the new Joseph, I bought two of the tins immediately, lol. I was named after this guy so it is really exciting to enjoy playing a useful version of him in tournament play.

I would love to hear about Tower of Thebez if there is any "back story" to that, I can tell just by the preciseness of the wording there was, at least, a great deal of thought that went into the ability.

Cool article, looking forward to more! However, I will be moving this thread to a more suitable home

An absolutely fascinating read.  Thanks, Gabe!  I love reading about all the thought and development that goes into creating card games.  If it would be possible, I'd love to read more.  Personally, I'd be interested in the thought that went into the older tins, when themes started getting really strong.

For example, before Redemption, did you know that Isaiah was confronted by an Angel who told him to eat a burning coal?

Well, "before Redemption" for me was when I was about 9 years old, but that's not the point.

I agree with everything you said though, there are benefits to players of both bigger and smaller roles in the Bible seeing widespread use. And by trying to make every card usable in competitive decks, hopefully every card that's printed will get make it somewhere, so every name, little or small, will see some prominence. Which is great for everyone. Yay everyone!

That's so cool. I know his raid is over and it has been told somewhat I still want to see Thaddeus's full story.

Or angel under the Oak's.

Thanks for your feedback. Here are a few personal responses.

I would love to hear about Tower of Thebez if there is any "back story" to that, I can tell just by the preciseness of the wording there was, at least, a great deal of thought that went into the ability.

Bryon's article does a great job previewing the Tower, but it doesn't tell a lot of the back story as to how we arrived at the card you see now. There were a number of changes that should make a good story, without repeating much of what Bryon shared in his preview article.

I'm surprised it took so long for him to get green added, since as far as I know just about all human prophets in the last several years have had green brigade.

I can only think of two Heroes that are prophets that didn't receive green brigade since FooF - Jacob and Gabriel. However, every time we add green brigade we have to consider the interaction with Hidden Treasures so we are apprehensive about it. There's at least one Hero who prophesied that might see print next year without green brigade too.

Judas' Plot seems like something that may have seen several incarnations, and maybe part of an overarching "Judas and Sadducees" theme push. Anything interesting to say about that?

I think Judas' Plot did have several incarnations but those were mostly us trying to figure out how to word the ability properly. That might not be a very interesting read. I'll see if there's anything fun related to Judas and the Sadducees.

Personally, I'd be interested in the thought that went into the older tins, when themes started getting really strong.

A more veteran elder than myself would have to do that write up. My involvement started during RoA and I have very few notes for that set, none for FooF. I didn't get heavily involved in the testing process until TeP.

That's so cool. I know his raid is over and it has been told somewhat I still want to see Thaddeus's full story.

For one of my next few articles I'll look back and see if there's anything interesting there. It might be a short story that goes like this:

That's subpar. Still not very good. That looks better. Oops.

Or angel under the Oak's.

I actually think he might have an interesting story. I seem to remember a number of changes to him along the way.

I'd also like to know why you didn't print the best hero in the game >:c.

That one is easy. I'll sum it up for you in 2 words. NOT CAANANITE.

The plan was to have the red/black tin be all Caananites (both good and evil). Initially we couldn't find enough Caananite, warriors that were part of David's mighty men. In an early version of the set 'Sauce's good buddy' Ittai was in that tin since he was a foreigner (Philistine) and one of David's men. We kept digging through scripture and found another Caananite to add. The awesome version of Ahimelek the Hittite you have today replaced Ittai.

Fun note: Foreign Sword is actually Ittai's sword.

It could be Peter.

I thought that, but I'd be surprised if they reprint the remaining few Disciples.  Thad's still good, and Disciples are a still the powerhouse that they were.

They continued to print Genesis Heroes after that was already a strong theme. And they have several patriarchs left untouched. WE WANT GENESIS GAD! OCCUPY HAYESVILLE!

Quote from: Alex_Olijar on January 13, 2012, 10:59:18 AM

It could be Peter.

I thought that, but I'd be surprised if they reprint the remaining few Disciples.  Thad's still good, and Disciples are a still the powerhouse that they were.

I disagree. Straight Disciples are no longer top tier, and I think they'll need a Susie-esque boost in the next set to stay truly viable. It makes sense to have Peter and Andrew in a starter deck at any rate.