Cactus Game Design Message Boards

I propose that there are three elements that, if attained, will make anyone a good Redemption player:

1. Use a top deck
2. Understand how to play your deck
3. Make no mistakes

To this I would add, in order to be a great player, you must also:

4. Know every viable card in the game and what it does
5. Be able to infer the contents of your opponent's entire deck from a few cards
6. Keep track of what has been played and what could still be played

To be a good player, you need to have a top deck (this doesn't necessarily mean Gardenciples, Genesis or Sam, but if your deck has a 10/10 no-SA Hero that's not King Saul, it's not a top deck). You have to know how to use your deck (using Dan for a D2 instead of attacking with Joseph with Creation of the World in your hand on turn 1 is an example of not knowing how to use your deck). And you have to reach a level of play where you're not making outright mistakes (such as forgetting to activate an Artifact or attacking with a Hero that doesn't have Site access).

To be great, you must know all cards (for example, if your opponent has an Assyrian Survivor sitting in his territory, you must know that you could face losing a card from deck, stalemating if your Hero has 5 or less offense and 3 or more defense, etc. but does not mean you could have all of your Heroes not in battle wiped out or your hero Discarded regardless of protection etc). You must be able to get a rough idea of what's in your opponent's deck by seeing just a few of his cards (if he plays Tower of Thebez, you must be prepared to face someone who can play a CBN Discard regardless of protection, someone who can't be AotL'd, etc.). Finally, you have to be able to chart the flow of the game, which could go into a whole essay on its own.

Does anyone have anything they would add to or detract from that formula?

Yeah, that kind of falls into the sixth category, although perhaps it should be broader than the way I phrased it makes it seem. There really could be a whole paper written on top-level playing without even getting into any ready of the significance of pauses or body language. I once won a game because my opponent attacked with an O.T. Male Hero despite having Female and/or N.T. options without realizing my SoG/NJ and Burial could reduce the available souls from 3 to 0, because the physical presence of 5 LS's and the mental assessment of "plenty of Lost Souls" wasn't countered by a specific knowledge of possible scenarios.

Yeah, I know what you mean about the decks. I typically use one of the big 3 in ROOT, but other than that I almost always use something else. That's just how I see it; tournaments are for winning, and it's the other stuff that's for fun. When I used to go to tournaments I'd go more for the up-all-night video/board game parties than Redemption itself, but when I was playing the tournament I wouldn't be caught dead with anything but what I believed to be the best deck. Still, I do wish it were possible to play Abomb again...

I'm not disagreeing with most of these points, except maybe the first one.  Do you believe it is possible to make a winning deck that is specifically designed to counter the "top deck" of the year that everyone is using?

with the sheer number of people playing antimeta this year, we should know the answer to this after nats 2012

To be a good player you must be able to go into things with a plan. You should be able to justify any of your choices. All too often newer players will enter battle without any support just to die to a Nero or Red Dragon that was already sitting in territory.

On the other hand, one key to higher level play is psychology and reading your opponent. If you know you're playing someone knowledgeable, and they are attacking with a lone Hero with your Nero plainly in territory, you have to decide. Are they just bluffing? Hoping you'll block with someone else? Do they have an immunity killer? Do they want initiative? Reading and bluffing and counter-bluffing are useful aspects of Redemption (and many other games).

Well, I think so, at least. It's somewhat possible I was a great player at one point, but my lack of knowledge of new cards has brought me down way too many notches, I may not even still be good.

If this keeps up we'll see the anti-anti meta!

By these qualifications, it is apperent that the definition of a good or great player pertains mostly to the ability to win games. I might agree that this is appropriate for good playing, but I have to argue that (particularly with this being a Christian game), the #1 qualification for a good player should be devotion to God. If you focus on the game as only a game and forget to glorify God through it, you may be able to play well, but you cannot be a great player.

It's great to talk about the strategy of this game, but I hope we continue to remember what truly makes this game better than others.

By these qualifications, it is apperent that the definition of a good or great player pertains mostly to the ability to win games. I might agree that this is appropriate for good playing, but I have to argue that (particularly with this being a Christian game), the #1 qualification for a good player should be devotion to God. If you focus on the game as only a game and forget to glorify God through it, you may be able to play well, but you cannot be a great player.

It's great to talk about the strategy of this game, but I hope we continue to remember what truly makes this game better than others.

You are wise beyond your years young padawan.

Your list seems to cover about everything. The only thing I would add is deckbuilding. I know one covers that in a sense but it doesn't cover the slight errors that can occur within top decks. I like the list though.

I think it's both, the religious aspect gives the game an "easy" audience but at the same time there are thousand of Christian knock off games that up and start up and die every year. What made redemption last is that it's not just Jesus pokemon, it has it's own mechanics and gameplay that make it unique from the CCGs of the world.

There also comes a point at which a player has to decide what his/her style and temperament is suited for. I talked about this with Chronic at the LI District. I'm just not an aggressive T12P player, and will never have the drive or desire to become one. I use decks that I enjoy, and when I want to compete I do have my own version of a "top deck," but I don't play it especially well. I find that I get more enjoyment and have more success in general in booster/sealed. The style of play is looser, there is a bigger chance factor, and you get to use cards that are otherwise fairly useless in tournament play. Finding combos and developing a draft strategy are something I find fun. T2 doesn't appeal to me at all (I've played it once, with someone else's deck), and Teams frankly baffles me (although my two sons might make a nice team). So I play T1 for fun, and Booster to try to win. Honestly, I'm still not a great booster player, but I can sit down thinking I have a real shot in a BD event. Whereas in T1, I'm toast.

So to be a more successful player, you may have to figure out what kind of player you are, and which categories play to your strengths.

@DDR, I agree with your analysis that you may improve as a redemption player by using a deck you like in lieu of a top deck. However, you will never be particularly successful if the deckstyle you're most comfortable with is N.T. Blue/Syrians. The post is written for people that want to enter upper levels of play, if you're a Johnny then feel free to disregard