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I did a search for a thread about these cards, but if they were discussed I guess its been a long time.  I'd really like to hear what others have to say.  I don't particularly like these cards, and I'll try to explain why, but there may be valid reasons for them that I have not thought of too.

First, a description of myself, so you have a reference point.  You will observe that I am still relatively new to the game, having discovered it a little over a year ago.  I do really enjoy the game (this needs to be made clear from the start I think).  I enjoy it enough to have spent a ton of money on it, and I currently have 11 "casual" decks.  I am also a Christian, so I am very attracted to the biblical theme.  But having only played for this long, I was not playing when Falling Away and the New Jerusalem dominant first came out, so I don't know what kind of dialogue ensued at that time.  

Now let me explain the reason for this thread.  With the Son of God card that comes in every starter deck, Redemption was basically a "race" type game where each deck had one VERY special card.  The Son of God card is the most powerful card in the game, and it should be.  In my opinion its not powerful enough (because I feel it should be able to rescue ANY single lost soul, and it seems wrong to me that there is a lost soul that maybe Lydia can rescue (NT only) but Jesus can't?)  But I digress...  Essentially, when the game came out you had to rescue 4 lost souls plus hope that you draw this super powerful card.  Now I THINK the original game also had an Angel of the Lord in every deck.  So especially when banding was originally quite rare, there were two cards that you could hopefully count on for 2 of your 5 lost souls.  Evil dominants like Burial and Martyr (which should also be in every starter deck, why does only 1 come in each?) could conceivably stop the "automatic lost soul" from playing Angel of the Lord.  In other words, the game was still tilted in favor of good getting 2 lost souls via dominants, but it seemed more balanced than it is now.

Then Falling Away was added in the Womens set, and it was so powerful that every tournament deck, probably especially multi-player, just had to have this card in their deck.  It is great for marketing maybe, but I'm not sure it didn't hurt the game.  It took a game that was probably just about right in terms of length (30-45 minutes) and made it longer, because it made it so each player potentially had to rescue SIX lost souls to win.  Also, because it did not come out in a starter deck, I'd guess it severely handicapped those players who were not allowed to buy any womens' packs.  But more than anything else it just "feels wrong" to take a lost soul that a player legitimately earned OUT of their land of redemption (which had formerly been off limits), and force them to rescue it again, maybe even this time putting it in a site and having it surrounded by a bunch of evil chracters/enhancements now.  And its not guaranteed to stay in that land of bondage once it gets there anyway.  On top of all the other good reasons for the "Lost Souls" card (perhaps another card that should never have been made), this card combined with Falling Away became brutal to players, potentially taking someone from 2 lost souls back down to zero (I really think this combo should be disallowed).  Once the Lost Soul (or Lost Souls, even worse) is back in the land of bondage, it can be shuffled, buried, or rescued by the other player's Son of God, all because of the Falling Away card.  This is one of only a handful of cards that I refuse to use in casual play, because our local playgroup children, especially new players, are not likely to have this powerful card.  It is so powerful that they had to make another dominant, Guardian of Your Souls, in the Apostles set just to protect against the Falling Away card.  Is this Cactus' way of admitting they regretted making Falling Away?

The other card I will never use in casual play is the New Jerusalem dominant, which gives you another "free" lost soul if played alongside your Son of God.  I know that the "play as" on this one has changed for the better already, because I am amazed that it ever allowed you to play it when ANYONE played Son of God, but it is still a ridiculously powerful combo in my opinion.  Again, might this have been created to speed up a game that had been slowed down by Falling Away?  If the games were taking too long, why not just go to 4 lost souls in tournaments, rather than making a super powerful card that everyone has to have.

I can certainly sympathize with most of your points.  I too don't include Falling Away or New Jerusalem in casual play.  It all depends on why you play the game and what your own definition of "fun" is.  When I first started playing I took all the dominants out of my decks, so I would have more room for "interesting" cards.  I enjoyed strategizing and trying to come up with ways to use all those cool looking cards I found in packs.  If ever there was a no-dominants variant added to the tournament roster, I would join it in a flash.  This is what I defined as "fun."  Others, however, enjoy winning; they synonimize this with fun, which I totally respect and can sympathize with as well to a degree.  This means that dominants are key part of the game, and using them to their fullest potential is necessary.


The thing is, this forum is not an unbiased source of information about this game.  If you post a deck here, you are assumed to be posting what you want to be playable in tournaments, regardless of your intentions.  I've seen several newbies to the game come here and post their "awesome" decks, only to be met with repeated advice to make heavy edits (make it 56 cards, add essential dominants, speed it up, etc.).  This is not a place for casual players, at least not for deck advice and/or deck posting.


One thing that Redemption lacks is heavy casual play, though I may be wrong about this, since it is difficult to document.  When I started playing, I had no one, save my mom, who would play with me; I thank Cactus for distributing starter decks in pairs rather than one at a time like I've seen with other games.  With other games, like MTG or Yu-Gi-Oh for instance, their marketing is so extensive that any kid can go to his school and find some other kids to play with.  They've probably never gone to tournaments or even know tournaments exist and are perfectly satisfied with working with whatever cards they can procure from packs and trades with their friends; they would never think of dropping >$20 on any single great card.  Redemption is much less known, so people who happen to pick up cards from their local Christian book store either have to play with people really close to them, hope they can get others interested, or resort to the internet.  I resorted to the internet; I have still maintained some of my "scrub" -like ideals though to keep myself interested in continuing in this game, but I have at least partially crossed over to the dark side by not being opposed to the heavy usage of dominants.

10) Defense in Type 1 is "dead".  Other than maybe sites, it seems most players these days practically abandon defense entirely to go with a 50 card deck designed solely to rescue lost souls, and only rarely actually stop a rescue attempt.  Again, this seems broken.  But type 2 insn't an option for me either as I don't have 3 of every card that I'd like.  Oh well

I was skimming through the many words in your post... but this instantly caught my eye. I'm proof that defense isnt dead. 

My newest deck is a 133 carder with 80-some cards of defense... in the two or three games I've used the defense in, it never lost. People dont EXPECT a gigantic defense, so you walk into the game and draw as much defense as they draw offense, they'll likely run out of steam very quickly.

Something that I think would be great for gameplay (idk if great for the game exactly since it may mean longer rounds) is first to 6, 60 card deck minimum, and CM/AotL can only target cards in territory.

If ever there was a no-dominants variant added to the tournament roster, I would join it in a flash. 

A "no dominants" tournament option is an AWESOME idea.  I am totally in favor of that.  Good idea.

7)  Multi-player has been ruined by these cards.  If you don't have Guardian of Your Souls, don't even enter the tournament.  Try winning when you've had Falling Away played on you 3 times in oen game.

I've played and won in multi when I've had eight dominants played against me defensively. Granted I was playing T2-MP, but I sat at a T1-MP table with Daniel Whitten at Nats in Columbus, and I watched him win after having three FA played against him.

10) Defense in Type 1 is "dead".  Other than maybe sites, it seems most players these days practically abandon defense entirely to go with a 50 card deck designed solely to rescue lost souls, and only rarely actually stop a rescue attempt.  Again, this seems broken.

A few years back after Priests came out heroless decks were all the rage--winning and placing highly in many tournaments. Not only did Prof Alstad place second at the NC Regionals in 2007 playing a heroless deck, he had the highest Lost Soul differential in the tournament. (His sole loss of the day occurred the one game he played a deck that contained heroes.) Heroless is less viable nowadays because the last three sets have all hurt the strategy, but that has nothing to do with either NJ or FA.

Seriously, if all the players you see around you are only playing offense, you should create a defense-heavy deck. If they aren't prepared for it, you will pounce them.

11) New "team" rules, allowing for one player to play Son of God and his partner to play New Jerusalem, just seems ridiculous.  Like it wasn't already easy enough for one "speedy" partner to get both in his own hand?  Expect some 15 minute team games now.

Have you played teams and seen this happen?  This has not been my experience in the tournaments I have played in.

As to a defense heavy deck beating one that is offense heavy, I've heard of it being done but it frankly seems hard to believe. 

In a tournament I just participated in, I was using very heavy Babylonian defense.  I won all three games I played and won the tournament  .  I played a "fast, not blasing speed" deck, a site lock-out deck, and an A-Bom deck, each with more good cards than bad!  If you use Crimson or Pale Green, you also have a very good chance of getting rid of Son of God, or New Jerusalem before they draw it.  Which is exactly what I did against the speed and site lock-out deck, not to mention I discarded all of their heroes so they couldn't make a rescue attempt, while I still had my heroes to use!