Author Topic: GET HYPED  (Read 10437 times)

Offline Red Dragon Thorn

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GET HYPED
« on: March 19, 2018, 02:16:24 AM »
+9
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Offline ChristianSoldier

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Re: GET HYPED
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2018, 02:50:26 AM »
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I have to admit the name made me happy, not only does the name have such a huge scope, but it sounds pretty epic too (in a tragic sort of way). Then I got to reading the cards and they look great so far, the only issue I have is negatively targeting an opponent's reserve... that being said, if I had to make a list of top cards to be able to target an opponent's reserve, that one would be on it.

And I love the art of The Serpent's Curse, the other art is good too, but The Serpent's Curse just awesome.
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Offline Xonathan

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Re: GET HYPED
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2018, 07:14:45 AM »
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The picture for the site and the Forbidden fruit don't show up for me. Is that a problem on my end?
Look to the Lord and his strength; seek his face always.
1 Chronicles 16:11

kariusvega

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Re: GET HYPED
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2018, 07:36:15 AM »
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Awesome!!

Offline Gabe

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Re: GET HYPED
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2018, 07:36:45 AM »
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The picture for the site and the Forbidden fruit don't show up for me. Is that a problem on my end?

They show up for me on mobile. I hadn’t viewed them on this device until a few moments ago so they shouldn’t be cached. I assume you’v tried to reload the page? If that doesn’t work maybe clear your cache and reload again.
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Offline Xonathan

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Re: GET HYPED
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2018, 07:41:41 AM »
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The picture for the site and the Forbidden fruit don't show up for me. Is that a problem on my end?

They show up for me on mobile. I hadn’t viewed them on this device until a few moments ago so they shouldn’t be cached. I assume you’v tried to reload the page? If that doesn’t work maybe clear your cache and reload again.


I see it now. Thanks!!
Look to the Lord and his strength; seek his face always.
1 Chronicles 16:11

Offline SignoftheStar

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Re: GET HYPED
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2018, 09:02:35 AM »
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So excited about so many things, but there is one big problem I have.

The tree.

Take? Take?

Take already means something in Redemption, and it's not searching a card location for a card and adding it to your hand, which I'm sure this is trying to say.
Search deck/discard pile/Reserve is very clear, has been clear for 23 years, and does not need to be replaced by a keyword that already means something else. That is unnecessarily confusing, and I vehemently boycott it.
Stick to search. Let Take mean gaining control of a card. Both Take and Search have meant the same things for the life of the game, and they're both quite clear. PLEASE don't change it, I'm BEGGING YOU.
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Offline Bobbert

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Re: GET HYPED
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2018, 09:36:35 AM »
0


Now I'm curious what the Nats release will look like.

Also, how final are the numbers? It looks like these are being numbered chronologically by verse, which is cool, but it seems a step back from the the more organized CoW and RoJ.

I see you there, Flaming Sword. Don't think I don't.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2018, 10:03:28 AM by Bobbert »
ANB is good. Change my mind.

Offline Kevinthedude

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Re: GET HYPED
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2018, 09:59:35 AM »
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Quote
Take already means something in Redemption, and it's not searching a card location for a card and adding it to your hand

That's actually exactly what it means.

Quote from: REG
Unless otherwise specified, targets are moved to the hand of the player gaining control of the cards.

Offline Gabe

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Re: GET HYPED
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2018, 10:02:37 AM »
+2
Let Take mean gaining control of a card.

This is exactly what take means. :)

When the idea of this "change" was first presented I wasn't on board either. It seemed really weird to me. But my peers helped me see the light. I don't know if I'll explain it as well as they did, but I'll try...

We already have old cards in the game that use take the same way we're using it that appear "new". They say things like "look at the top X cards of deck and take one to hand". I don't recall which cards, but someone can find them if they want to run a search in lackey.

Those cards were incongruent with the previous definition of take in the REG which only targeted opponent's cards. With REG 5.0 the definition of take was expanded to include all cards you don't control. That includes cards in your deck, discard pile and reserve. If you have a card that counts the number of good brigades an opponent controls, you only count the ones face up on the table, right? You don't look through their deck and count the brigades there too?

So now instead of saying "search deck for a Hero and add it to hand" we say "take a Hero from deck".

Also, how final are the numbers? I get that all this early Fall stuff would make sense at the beginning of the set, but it seems a step back from the the more organized CoW and RoJ.

I'm a big fan of how CoW and RoJ were organized, but some of our team felt that it was too predictable, especially during preview times. People could guess what cards were remaining simply based on the holes in the number list. They asked to have this set organized differently. Trust me, Fall of Man is very organized, but it uses a different method than recent sets. It should make sense once enough cards have been revealed.
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Offline The Guardian

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Re: GET HYPED
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2018, 10:09:36 AM »
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Quote
Stick to search.

In case you're worried, "taking" a card from deck, Reserve or discard pile is still a search ability.
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kariusvega

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Re: GET HYPED
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2018, 10:13:55 AM »
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-9 counts for 9 toss on an opponent? Asking about the gray curse that has -x/x if it were tossed

Not sure I've seen a -x toss option

Offline Bobbert

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Re: GET HYPED
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2018, 10:14:17 AM »
+1
Trust me, Fall of Man is very organized, but it uses a different method than recent sets. It should make sense once enough cards have been revealed.

I think I figured that out and edited my post right as you were replying. :P I will say I'm on board with the idea, though I was a fan of opening my binder and having all the themes next to each other, more or less.

-9 counts for 9 toss on an opponent? Asking about the gray curse that has -x/x if it were tossed

Not sure I've seen a -x toss option

It would be hilarious to me if it increased them instead.

1. Block with Foreign Spearman
2. Toss Birthing Pains to increase your opponent 9/9
3. Add another EC to battle (Unknown Nation, Gates of Hell, etc.)
4. Enjoy improved initiative
5. :o
6. Prophet
« Last Edit: March 19, 2018, 10:23:21 AM by Bobbert »
ANB is good. Change my mind.

Offline Gabe

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Re: GET HYPED
« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2018, 10:15:26 AM »
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I will say I'm on board with the idea, though I was a fan of opening my binder and having all the themes next to each other, more or less.

Me too! I won't be organizing these by number in my collection.
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TheHobbit13

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Re: GET HYPED
« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2018, 10:19:31 AM »
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-9 counts for 9 toss on an opponent? Asking about the gray curse that has -x/x if it were tossed

Not sure I've seen a -x toss option

Seems like you'd toss yourself.

Offline The Guardian

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Re: GET HYPED
« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2018, 10:25:13 AM »
+1
-9 counts for 9 toss on an opponent? Asking about the gray curse that has -x/x if it were tossed

Not sure I've seen a -x toss option

We discussed that a few weeks ago and I can't quite recall which way we decided...good thing we record our discussions... ::)

It definitely does not decrease the opponent. I believe we decided it would increase them, which could be a good way to chump block if you only have...oh wait, that one isn't spoiled yet... :o
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Offline The Guardian

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Re: GET HYPED
« Reply #16 on: March 19, 2018, 10:49:37 AM »
+1
Quote
Now I'm curious what the Nats release will look like.

We are not planning to do a special release at Nationals this year, but you never know what other fun surprise we might come up with... ;)
Fortress Alstad
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Offline The Guardian

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Re: GET HYPED
« Reply #17 on: March 19, 2018, 11:10:53 AM »
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I have to admit the name made me happy, not only does the name have such a huge scope, but it sounds pretty epic too (in a tragic sort of way). Then I got to reading the cards and they look great so far, the only issue I have is negatively targeting an opponent's reserve... that being said, if I had to make a list of top cards to be able to target an opponent's reserve, that one would be on it.

And I love the art of The Serpent's Curse, the other art is good too, but The Serpent's Curse just awesome.

With the Reserve being so new, there will be a very small number (3 or less) of cards that can target an opponent's Reserve in this set. As more and more themes receive easier Reserve access, we will likely make a few more cards that can disrupt the Reserve in future sets.
Fortress Alstad
Have you checked the REG?
Have you looked it up in ORCID?

Offline SignoftheStar

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Re: GET HYPED
« Reply #18 on: March 19, 2018, 11:39:02 AM »
+4
Sorry, I STILL really don't like this use of Take. It's horribly confusing and will frustrate the majority of current players and ALL new players.
Granted, the way the REG is worded does suggest that cards in a deck or discard pile can be "taken" as they are not currently under your control. That remains unintuitive, as you would think of your card piles as being in your control, if anyone's. Give and Take still share an entry in the REG, implying two perspectives of the same ability- simply, switching the control of a card from one player to another. That is very intuitive. Saying it's still a Take ability to get a card from your card pile because you're switching control of a card from... nothing... to yourself is absolutely bizarre.

I've played many, many trading card games- Magic, Pokémon, Harry Potter, My Little Pony, Force of Will. One of the few universal card abilities is searching a deck or a discard pile for a card. The wording is the same, up and down the board, because the wording is intuitive and clear. Calling Searching a Take ability, insofar as Redemption maintains the definition of Taking as gaining control, is wildly counter intuitive.

Redemption does NOT need to acquire even more set-rewriting errata or conflate more special abilities. It makes this game- by FAR the most complicated TCG- harder for fans to keep up with and impossible for newcomers to learn.

This change alone will have to make me postpone and rewrite my entire upcoming Welcome to Redemption: Special Abilities video. And what would I even say? "Take is the same thing as Give, just seen from a different perspective. They mean to gain or surrender control of a card respectively. Except Take now also means to search your deck, discard pile, or Reserve for a card. But only when it says to do it that way. Those Take abilities allow you to gain control of cards you, uh... already own by switching control from your, uh... deck, to you. Or something."

That's so so SO confusing, and, more importantly, unnecessary. We just don't need to replace a perfectly functional keyword with one we already have and use.

And as for all those cards that let you "take" a revealed card or whatever. You want to distinguish that from normal Take abilities?
Then just use the better word that every other card game already uses.
Add.
Just errata those usages of "take to hand" with "add to hand". Completely intuitive, no conflation, and now you have to errata a dozen cards instead of 40% of all special abilities in the game. Problem solved.

I'm really sorry to sound so annoyed and irritated, but stuff like this KILLS me.
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Re: GET HYPED
« Reply #19 on: March 19, 2018, 11:52:06 AM »
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Great job on the set theme and artwork. Great name too. Loving it.

Offline Kevinthedude

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Re: GET HYPED
« Reply #20 on: March 19, 2018, 12:49:52 PM »
+1
Sorry, I STILL really don't like this use of Take. It's horribly confusing and will frustrate the majority of current players and ALL new players.
Granted, the way the REG is worded does suggest that cards in a deck or discard pile can be "taken" as they are not currently under your control. That remains unintuitive, as you would think of your card piles as being in your control, if anyone's. Give and Take still share an entry in the REG, implying two perspectives of the same ability- simply, switching the control of a card from one player to another. That is very intuitive. Saying it's still a Take ability to get a card from your card pile because you're switching control of a card from... nothing... to yourself is absolutely bizarre.

I've played many, many trading card games- Magic, Pokémon, Harry Potter, My Little Pony, Force of Will. One of the few universal card abilities is searching a deck or a discard pile for a card. The wording is the same, up and down the board, because the wording is intuitive and clear. Calling Searching a Take ability, insofar as Redemption maintains the definition of Taking as gaining control, is wildly counter intuitive.

Redemption does NOT need to acquire even more set-rewriting errata or conflate more special abilities. It makes this game- by FAR the most complicated TCG- harder for fans to keep up with and impossible for newcomers to learn.

This change alone will have to make me postpone and rewrite my entire upcoming Welcome to Redemption: Special Abilities video. And what would I even say? "Take is the same thing as Give, just seen from a different perspective. They mean to gain or surrender control of a card respectively. Except Take now also means to search your deck, discard pile, or Reserve for a card. But only when it says to do it that way. Those Take abilities allow you to gain control of cards you, uh... already own by switching control from your, uh... deck, to you. Or something."

That's so so SO confusing, and, more importantly, unnecessary. We just don't need to replace a perfectly functional keyword with one we already have and use.

And as for all those cards that let you "take" a revealed card or whatever. You want to distinguish that from normal Take abilities?
Then just use the better word that every other card game already uses.
Add.
Just errata those usages of "take to hand" with "add to hand". Completely intuitive, no conflation, and now you have to errata a dozen cards instead of 40% of all special abilities in the game. Problem solved.

I'm really sorry to sound so annoyed and irritated, but stuff like this KILLS me.

There's no errata since the function of old cards isn't changing. It's just like how abilities that used to say "remove from the game" now say "banish". If you want to compare this to other card games, Magic does this all the time and even did exactly the same thing to their remove from the game except they changed it to exile instead of banish.

As for take specifically, I don't see how you think this is confusing for new players. It actually can clear up some situations new players get wrong. New players don't know a search ability defaults to putting the target card in your hand and I've seen many players think searching for a character puts it straight into territory. It may be just me but "taking" a card makes it feel more intuitive to go to hand.

Regarding your complaint about control, you don't control cards in your deck, discard, or Reserve so it does make sense for take to give you control of the target cards. Just because the transfer of control isn't between two players doesn't mean take makes no sense.

In the end though, no matter what card game you are playing, there will be keywords players have to memorize. It's a necessary part of card games. Standardizing abilities into keywords absolutely does not make the game more complex and writing a rant about how Redemption is "by FAR the most complicated TCG" proves nothing but the fact that you have very little experience with other TCGs. The only paper card game I have enough knowledge to comment on regarding complexity is Magic and I can assure you Magic is so beyond Redemption in complexity that any comparison is laughable.

Offline EmJayBee83

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Re: GET HYPED
« Reply #21 on: March 19, 2018, 01:05:58 PM »
+1
-9 counts for 9 toss on an opponent? Asking about the gray curse that has -x/x if it were tossed

Not sure I've seen a -x toss option

From the definition of Toss
Quote from: REG
The opposing character is decreased X/X, where X is the strength of the discarded Enhancement at face value.

The opposing character would be decreased -9/-9, which is the same as being increased 9/9.

kariusvega

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Re: GET HYPED
« Reply #22 on: March 19, 2018, 01:35:15 PM »
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Oh awesome now you can toss your children to 24/15 :-) lol

Imho serpents curse needs cbn on the curse side

Offline The Guardian

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Re: GET HYPED
« Reply #23 on: March 19, 2018, 01:40:22 PM »
+1
Imho serpents curse needs cbn on the curse side

Not enough room.
Fortress Alstad
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kariusvega

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Re: GET HYPED
« Reply #24 on: March 19, 2018, 02:11:00 PM »
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Can it start in play and be cbn protected? :-)

 


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