Author Topic: GET HYPED (Read 10428 times)

Ironisaac · « **Reply #25 on:** March 19, 2018, 02:14:17 PM »

Quote from: kariusvega on March 19, 2018, 02:11:00 PM

Can it start in play and be cbn protected? :-)

Quote from: The Guardian on March 19, 2018, 01:40:22 PM

Quote from: kariusvega on March 19, 2018, 01:35:15 PM
Imho serpents curse needs cbn on the curse side

Not enough room.

Just add it in the identifier!

Watchman · « **Reply #26 on:** March 19, 2018, 02:53:54 PM »

If I had serpent’s curse and RoJ death in territory, would my opponent’s hand size be six or still seven (assuming he doesn’t have tables of the law activated)?

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #27 on:** March 19, 2018, 02:55:23 PM »

His hand size would be 6. Pretty fun combo!

Watchman · « **Reply #28 on:** March 19, 2018, 02:59:41 PM »

That’s sweet.

I just read the full article. My question would have been answered if I had read it first.

Watchman · « **Reply #29 on:** March 19, 2018, 03:31:31 PM »

In regards to the Curses in the upcoming set, I’m not trying to nitpick but I noticed the curse ability is listed before the EE ability and am wondering why it was reversed. Cards in RoJ like the bowls of wrath have the good and evil icons in the ability box mirror the order of the icons in the top left box. As English speakers/writers we tend to read and follow things from left to right, top to bottom. I was thinking that it might flow better for the players to switch the EE to be on top and the curse on bottom. Just an observation/suggestion.

Reth · « **Reply #30 on:** March 19, 2018, 03:49:12 PM »

Wow! These new cards and abilities look amazing!

But I still fear that it makes gameplay even more hard or impossible to stand against OP decks.
And as already said within different threads: Newcomers' life will get even harder when trying to get into the game! (Playing I/J starters is still fun and easy and complex enough for newbies - but the next step becomes more and more hard to take!)

Watchman · « **Reply #31 on:** March 19, 2018, 03:53:45 PM »

Quote from: Reth on March 19, 2018, 03:49:12 PM

Wow! These new cards and abilities look amazing!

But I still fear that it makes gameplay even more hard or impossible to stand against OP decks.
And as already said within different threads: Newcomers' life will get even harder when trying to get into the game! (Playing I/J starters is still fun and easy and complex enough for newbies - but the next step becomes more and more hard to take!)

Something to consider is CCGs aren’t for everybody. They tend to be complex, very strategic, involved and expensive. The reality is that if someone really wants to play this or any other CCG they will commit to learning, practicing, competing, and investing in it. It comes down to desire. I don’t desire to play certain games for various reasons, although some other people love those games for their reasons. The same goes with Redemption.

The Guardian · « **Reply #32 on:** March 19, 2018, 04:01:06 PM »

Quote from: Reth on March 19, 2018, 03:49:12 PM

Wow! These new cards and abilities look amazing!

But I still fear that it makes gameplay even more hard or impossible to stand against OP decks.
And as already said within different threads: Newcomers' life will get even harder when trying to get into the game! (Playing I/J starters is still fun and easy and complex enough for newbies - but the next step becomes more and more hard to take!)

While there are certainly some strong and somewhat complex abilities in the new set, I think you will also find that we've included some very basic abilities that counter some of the strongest deck types.

Reth · « **Reply #33 on:** March 19, 2018, 04:05:09 PM »

That's true - but a few days ago we had a long match basically using RoJ Angels where we nearly spent as many time reading REG, Rulebook, forum and ORDIR as we spent playing. This makes the gameplay not really fluent and playing might become really annoying some time ... (of course we are no experts but when considering newcomers do know much less this raises barriers!)

TheHobbit13 · « **Reply #34 on:** March 19, 2018, 04:16:26 PM »

Quote from: Kevinthedude on March 19, 2018, 12:49:52 PM

Quote from: SignoftheStar on March 19, 2018, 11:39:02 AM
Sorry, I STILL really don't like this use of Take. It's horribly confusing and will frustrate the majority of current players and ALL new players.
Granted, the way the REG is worded does suggest that cards in a deck or discard pile can be "taken" as they are not currently under your control. That remains unintuitive, as you would think of your card piles as being in your control, if anyone's. Give and Take still share an entry in the REG, implying two perspectives of the same ability- simply, switching the control of a card from one player to another. That is very intuitive. Saying it's still a Take ability to get a card from your card pile because you're switching control of a card from... nothing... to yourself is absolutely bizarre.

I've played many, many trading card games- Magic, Pokémon, Harry Potter, My Little Pony, Force of Will. One of the few universal card abilities is searching a deck or a discard pile for a card. The wording is the same, up and down the board, because the wording is intuitive and clear. Calling Searching a Take ability, insofar as Redemption maintains the definition of Taking as gaining control, is wildly counter intuitive.

Redemption does NOT need to acquire even more set-rewriting errata or conflate more special abilities. It makes this game- by FAR the most complicated TCG- harder for fans to keep up with and impossible for newcomers to learn.

This change alone will have to make me postpone and rewrite my entire upcoming Welcome to Redemption: Special Abilities video. And what would I even say? "Take is the same thing as Give, just seen from a different perspective. They mean to gain or surrender control of a card respectively. Except Take now also means to search your deck, discard pile, or Reserve for a card. But only when it says to do it that way. Those Take abilities allow you to gain control of cards you, uh... already own by switching control from your, uh... deck, to you. Or something."

That's so so SO confusing, and, more importantly, unnecessary. We just don't need to replace a perfectly functional keyword with one we already have and use.

And as for all those cards that let you "take" a revealed card or whatever. You want to distinguish that from normal Take abilities?
Then just use the better word that every other card game already uses.
Add.
Just errata those usages of "take to hand" with "add to hand". Completely intuitive, no conflation, and now you have to errata a dozen cards instead of 40% of all special abilities in the game. Problem solved.

I'm really sorry to sound so annoyed and irritated, but stuff like this KILLS me.

In the end though, no matter what card game you are playing, there will be keywords players have to memorize. It's a necessary part of card games. Standardizing abilities into keywords absolutely does not make the game more complex and writing a rant about how Redemption is "by FAR the most complicated TCG" proves nothing but the fact that you have very little experience with other TCGs. The only paper card game I have enough knowledge to comment on regarding complexity is Magic and I can assure you Magic is so beyond Redemption in complexity that any comparison is laughable.

I think by complex, he's referring to unnecessarily complicated and not in a strategic sense. But I agree that there is not a problem with "take" being the new "search". As long as take IS the new search and not just implying a search. It's similar to remove becoming banish. Not ideal, but adaptable. The biggest issue is that it's mapping search to something that already had a distinct definition before. Like Gabe basically said before, oh well it will grow on us. When you have keywords intermixing, however, there can be unnecessary confusion (e.g., exchange being an implied search). This is generally a ccg "no-no" as it defeats the purpose of having keywords; by definition keywords have distinct abilities. So yeah, this is actually great, after the step back from "look".

The only issue I can see with take is that on cards like forbidden fruit, while I read that as obviously allowing me to take an O.T. enhancement from my reserve, the connotation of take coupled with the fact that you just looked at your opponents hand may suggest to players that they are supposed to search an opponent's reserve for the O.T. enhancement.

Bobbert · « **Reply #35 on:** March 19, 2018, 04:31:31 PM »

For what it's worth, my two cents are that in general it's better for the game to keep barriers to entry low. We aren't as established as something like Warhammer where the complexity is half the draw; we can't afford to turn away players who try the starter decks and enjoy them but get overwhelmed by all the crazy and complex abilities in the more recent sets.

Quote from: Gabe on March 19, 2018, 10:02:37 AM

People could guess what cards were remaining simply based on the holes in the number list.

Not to be that guy, but we can do that a bit now - in fact, I'm going to, because speculating is fun. We are missing cards 5, 7 and 11 from the first dozen; if I had to take a stab I'd guess that 5 is called something along the lines of "Opened Eyes", "Nakedness Revealed", or "Hiding from God" (Any could be an EE, but the first could also be a DAE and the last might even be an evil dom and/or have Jonah synergy). I would guess that 7 is "Passing Blame" (likely an EE) and that 11 is either "Cast from the Garden" (EE or possibly curse, though that might have been posted today if it was) or, more likely, the wielder of the Flaming Sword, with the same reference (WC angel, obviously. "Cherubim with the Flaming Sword" is unwieldy - I'm going to call it "Guardian of the Garden" in my head because I like alliteration).

Sorry if any of the card designers are annoyed by this. Obviously this won't work for calling how many dominants or artifacts or whatever are in the set. I'm just bored at work and filing in the reference gaps with wild speculation.

The Guardian · « **Reply #36 on:** March 19, 2018, 04:39:20 PM »

Well shame on you for spoiling everything...

Edit--I'm also bored at work and would probably be doing the same thing if I didn't already know what they were...

Bobbert · « **Reply #37 on:** March 19, 2018, 04:48:10 PM »

Quote from: The Guardian on March 19, 2018, 04:39:20 PM

Well shame on you for spoiling everything...

Edit--I'm also bored at work and would probably be doing the same thing if I didn't already know what they were...

Well, I haven't been edited by R.O.S.E.S. yet, so I can't have hit too near the mark...

NathanW · « **Reply #38 on:** March 19, 2018, 05:05:16 PM »

Quote from: Bobbert on March 19, 2018, 04:48:10 PM

Quote from: The Guardian on March 19, 2018, 04:39:20 PM
Well shame on you for spoiling everything...

Edit--I'm also bored at work and would probably be doing the same thing if I didn't already know what they were...

Well, I haven't been edited by R.O.S.E.S. yet, so I can't have hit too near the mark...

I don't think that's exactly how that works

Gabe · « **Reply #39 on:** March 19, 2018, 05:16:35 PM »

Quote from: Bobbert on March 19, 2018, 04:31:31 PM

Not to be that guy, but we can do that a bit now - in fact, I'm going to, because speculating is fun. We are missing cards 5, 7 and 11 from the first dozen; if I had to take a stab I'd guess that 5 is called something along the lines of "Opened Eyes", "Nakedness Revealed", or "Hiding from God" (Any could be an EE, but the first could also be a DAE and the last might even be an evil dom and/or have Jonah synergy). I would guess that 7 is "Passing Blame" (likely an EE) and that 11 is either "Cast from the Garden" (EE or possibly curse, though that might have been posted today if it was) or, more likely, the wielder of the Flaming Sword, with the same reference (WC angel, obviously. "Cherubim with the Flaming Sword" is unwieldy - I'm going to call it "Guardian of the Garden" in my head because I like alliteration).

Your guesses have varying degrees of accuracy... but since you pretty much nailed this one I'll give it to you.

Spoiler (hover to show)

Sadness · « **Reply #40 on:** March 19, 2018, 06:40:03 PM »

I'm wondering how Blame Shifting can be a good enhancement? Or am I missing something?

Bobbert · « **Reply #41 on:** March 19, 2018, 06:43:20 PM »

Quote from: Sadness on March 19, 2018, 06:40:03 PM

I'm wondering how Blame Shifting can be a good enhancement? Or am I missing something?

I guess it has to be playable by Adam and Eve. You'll note that I called it as an EE in my prediction

That said, it's a fantastic card, and I'm looking forward to passing blame onto Cain in my territory to force my opponent to discard.

Watchman · « **Reply #42 on:** March 19, 2018, 08:00:31 PM »

Quote from: Sadness on March 19, 2018, 06:40:03 PM

I'm wondering how Blame Shifting can be a good enhancement? Or am I missing something?

I was wondering the same thing.

Watchman · « **Reply #43 on:** March 19, 2018, 08:09:07 PM »

I'm thinking card 11 is something dealing with Adam and Eve being expelled from the Garden. So I'm gonna call that it's titled Expulsion, it's an evil enhancement (maybe curse), and has something to do with either banishing a human hero from battle and/or territory. It could also be considered a dual-alignment enh since God was protecting the holiness of the Tree of Life (Jesus) from fallen man until the time of redemption came (the Tree of Life coming to man).

Kor · « **Reply #44 on:** March 19, 2018, 10:38:38 PM »

Regarding Adam, is ‘non-humans’ short for non human characters? Or is he protected from dominants and artifacts also as they are not humans?

The Guardian · « **Reply #45 on:** March 19, 2018, 10:44:01 PM »

"Non-human" is actually a term defined in the ORDIR.

Quote from: ORDIR

Non-human
Non-human characters include angels, animals, demons and symbolic characters.

While technically artifacts and dominants are not humans, the Redemption term "non-human" refers to characters.

soul seeker · « **Reply #46 on:** March 20, 2018, 06:31:26 PM »

I need to ask something before getting on the train:
Is that the official border art for the set (which looks like alternate art from previous sets) or are the spoiled cards consisting of the alternate border art?

NathanW · « **Reply #47 on:** March 20, 2018, 06:35:03 PM »

Quote from: soul seeker on March 20, 2018, 06:31:26 PM

I need to ask something before getting on the train:
Is that the official border art for the set (which looks like alternate art from previous sets) or are the spoiled cards consisting of the alternate border art?

I believe this quote from the article answers your question.

Quote

As you might have noticed from the preview images, we’re doing some things differently this time around. The initial set release will contain all alternate border cards. That’s right! The alternate border is the new normal! That does mean that we won’t have a special release at Nationals this year, but you get all the cool looking cards right up front.

soul seeker · « **Reply #48 on:** March 20, 2018, 06:39:17 PM »

Quote from: tripleplayNa1 on March 20, 2018, 06:35:03 PM

I believe this quote from the article answers your question.

Thanks! It totally does*, and I'm on the hype train just from the pics.**

* I've not read the articles or cards yet because of my life's circumstances.
** I've needed something to be hyped about, so it is nice to see these cards released.

Crashfach2002 · « **Reply #49 on:** March 20, 2018, 08:14:15 PM »

Quote from: soul seeker on March 20, 2018, 06:39:17 PM

Quote from: tripleplayNa1 on March 20, 2018, 06:35:03 PM
I believe this quote from the article answers your question.

Thanks! It totally does*, and I'm on the hype train just from the pics.**

They did also say that rarities haven't been determined yet, so some of the cards won't have the borders depicted as they would probably have the full art instead. (Going based off of the AB releases from the last two sets). This would also mean the URs would be full art / borderless!!!

News:

Author Topic: GET HYPED (Read 10428 times)

TheHobbit13