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Author Topic: Grapes vs Herod's Temple  (Read 2993 times)

Offline Daniel TS RED

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Grapes vs Herod's Temple
« on: September 30, 2010, 01:48:56 PM »
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Herod's Temple (Di)
Type: Fortress • Brigade: None • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: If your N.T. human is discarded by a special ability used by an opponent, you may discard a card of matching brigade from hand and the top X cards of your deck instead. Put Lost Souls in play instead. • Identifiers: None • Verse: Mark 13:1 • Availability: Disciples booster packs ()

Type: Lamb • Brigade: None • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Discard an evil card in battle to shuffle all remaining characters in battle into owners’ decks. If the current rescuer doesn't have the most Redeemed Souls, he may begin a new battle. • Play As: Discard an evil card in battle to shuffle [return] all remaining characters in battle into owners’ decks. If the current rescuer doesn't have the most Redeemed Souls, he may begin a new battle. • Identifiers: None • Verse: Revelation 19:15 • Availability: Thesaurus ex Preteritus booster packs ()

If someone plays Grapes on your EC, and you have out Herod's Temple.  You discard a matching card from hand and your top card (you had 1 LS), Grapes doesn't do anything then right?

Daniel

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Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Grapes vs Herod's Temple
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2010, 01:50:19 PM »
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It still shuffles all the other characters and allows for another battle if the attacker wasn't winning.
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Offline Daniel TS RED

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Re: Grapes vs Herod's Temple
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2010, 01:51:43 PM »
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Wouldn't you have to dscard an evil in battle to shuffle though?  And since the guy doesn't shuffle, would it still work?

Daniel

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Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Grapes vs Herod's Temple
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2010, 01:52:56 PM »
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You did pay the cost on Grapes (Discarding an Evil card). The Discard was insteaded, not Negated. The guy returns to territory to block another day.
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Offline Daniel TS RED

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Re: Grapes vs Herod's Temple
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2010, 01:54:41 PM »
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Alrighty, thanks again for the help man.

Daniel

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Offline Professoralstad

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Re: Grapes vs Herod's Temple
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2010, 02:10:45 PM »
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Quote from: Minister Polarius on September 30, 2010, 01:52:56 PM
You did pay the cost on Grapes (Discarding an Evil card). The Discard was insteaded, not Negated. The guy returns to territory to block another day.

That's how I've always played it/seen it played. I will continue to rule that way until I hear a good reason not to.
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Offline Master KChief

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Re: Grapes vs Herod's Temple
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2010, 04:12:13 PM »
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whoa, havent we had this discussion before? if a cost is insteaded, it doesnt count as the cost being fulfilled?
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Offline Smokey

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Re: Grapes vs Herod's Temple
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2010, 04:21:57 PM »
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Quote from: Master KChief on September 30, 2010, 04:12:13 PM
whoa, havent we had this discussion before? if a cost is insteaded, it doesnt count as the cost being fulfilled?

No, you can instead costs you just can't use SSS with Cov of Eden (because Cov of Eden also protects).
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Offline Master KChief

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Re: Grapes vs Herod's Temple
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2010, 04:33:40 PM »
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source? im fairly certain if a cost is insteaded, it doesnt count as the cost being made.

edit: sir no has also ruled cov w/eden and sss does NOT work: http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/index.php?topic=22729.0
« Last Edit: September 30, 2010, 04:36:33 PM by Master KChief »
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Offline Smokey

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Re: Grapes vs Herod's Temple
« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2010, 08:32:05 PM »
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Quote from: Master KChief on September 30, 2010, 04:33:40 PM
source? im fairly certain if a cost is insteaded, it doesnt count as the cost being made.

edit: sir no has also ruled cov w/eden and sss does NOT work: http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/index.php?topic=22729.0

I never said it does work.
FWIW, I agree with Prof... and his opinion is consistant with what it was in that thread.

Quote from: Professoralstad on September 30, 2010, 02:10:45 PM
Quote from: Minister Polarius on September 30, 2010, 01:52:56 PM
You did pay the cost on Grapes (Discarding an Evil card). The Discard was insteaded, not Negated. The guy returns to territory to block another day.

That's how I've always played it/seen it played. I will continue to rule that way until I hear a good reason not to.
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Offline Master KChief

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Re: Grapes vs Herod's Temple
« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2010, 09:54:26 PM »
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Quote from: Smokey on September 30, 2010, 08:32:05 PM
FWIW, I agree with Prof... and his opinion is consistant with what it was in that thread.

the general consensus of the thread was that it does not work. sk also said that was the way bryon ruled it as well.
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Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Grapes vs Herod's Temple
« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2010, 11:58:33 PM »
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The consensus is wrong. I think the mechanics of "instead" are under debate right now, but currently, insteading a cost does not un-pay it.
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Offline Master KChief

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Re: Grapes vs Herod's Temple
« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2010, 12:40:36 AM »
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currently based on what exactly?
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Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Grapes vs Herod's Temple
« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2010, 12:41:17 AM »
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Quote from: Master KChief on October 01, 2010, 12:40:36 AM
currently based on what exactly?
I Am Holy and Chamber of Angels. Since, you know, Angel Wars.
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Offline RTSmaniac

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Re: Grapes vs Herod's Temple
« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2010, 06:44:49 AM »
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BOOO-YA!
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Offline fyero

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Re: Grapes vs Herod's Temple
« Reply #15 on: October 03, 2010, 10:43:38 PM »
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herod's temple keeps the guy in battle right? like if i attack with my NT hero and opponent plays CM i discard instead and my NT hero stays in battle right?
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browarod

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Re: Grapes vs Herod's Temple
« Reply #16 on: October 03, 2010, 11:56:31 PM »
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Quote from: fyero on October 03, 2010, 10:43:38 PM
herod's temple keeps the guy in battle right? like if i attack with my NT hero and opponent plays CM i discard instead and my NT hero stays in battle right?
It's an instead, not a heal, so I would think the character would remain in its previous position (whether it be battle or territory).
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Offline Professoralstad

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Re: Grapes vs Herod's Temple
« Reply #17 on: October 04, 2010, 12:39:53 PM »
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Quote from: browarod on October 03, 2010, 11:56:31 PM
Quote from: fyero on October 03, 2010, 10:43:38 PM
herod's temple keeps the guy in battle right? like if i attack with my NT hero and opponent plays CM i discard instead and my NT hero stays in battle right?
It's an instead, not a heal, so I would think the character would remain in its previous position (whether it be battle or territory).

Correct.
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