Author Topic: Concerning issue for modern Mayhem playing  (Read 8523 times)

Offline lp670sv

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Re: Concerning issue for modern Mayhem playing
« Reply #50 on: April 08, 2014, 08:42:29 AM »
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Because that judging guideline only solves if your opponent plays a card during your action. How long do you get to decide of you are playing a Dom after your action? Half a second? A second? All the while your oppenent is waiting, so he plays his Dom and suddenly no no you were just about to play one responding to own action! Responding to your own action is yet another bandai. Its helps judging but doesn't actually solve the problem.

Offline EmJayBee83

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Re: Concerning issue for modern Mayhem playing
« Reply #51 on: April 08, 2014, 12:22:35 PM »
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Because that judging guideline only solves if your opponent plays a card during your action. How long do you get to decide of you are playing a Dom after your action? Half a second? A second?
I get as long as reasonably needed to make my decision which I signal to my opponent by either playing a dominant or asking if he would like to play a dominant. (Just like I can take a reasonable amount of time to play an enhancement when I have initiative during battle.) My opponent would not be able to play his dominant until asked if he would like to just prior to taking my next action or passing initiative.

If I take a second action without asking, my opponent would be able to call a judge over and say, "He didn't tell me he was leaving the draw phase (or whatever), and I wanted to play my dominant." The judge would then let you play your dominant.

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All the while your oppenent is waiting, so he plays his Dom and suddenly no no you were just about to play one responding to own action! Responding to your own action is yet another bandai. Its helps judging but doesn't actually solve the problem.
If you look at the one case where this proposal is actually used currently (playing a dominant versus playing an enhancement in battle), I think you would see that your concerns are overblown. Currently the vast majority of players (even the most competitive) ask, "My initative?" or somesuch prior to playing an enhancement, precisely to avoid any arguments over whether you did/did not give enough time for your opponent to play a dominant. I cannot remember the last time I was called to judge a case of enhancement vs dominant slapjack nor do I see board threads asking about it.

Two posts back you said that basing on outcome on how fast you could get a card out of your hand was a broken mechanic. Not only do I agree with your assessment I would go you one better and say that any "how long do I have to wait" mechanic is just badbadbad. Remove the timing element (to the same extent it is removed for playing enhancements when you have initiative), and you resolve the dominant slapjack problems once and for all, *without* fundamentally changing how dominants work in general.

Offline lp670sv

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Re: Concerning issue for modern Mayhem playing
« Reply #52 on: April 08, 2014, 12:46:43 PM »
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That would be fine with Dominants followed initiative but they don't. Initiative is a clearly defined mechanic for when you can play a card, that Dominants completely ignore. Asking your opponent if it is your initiative is irrelevant because you don't need it to play a Dom, and people don't wait for it to play a card for that very reason. Asking your opponent "would you like to play a dominant" is a verbal que to them that if they don't, you are likely going to, it gives them an advantage, and all because we don't have a clearly defined rule for "dominant initiative"

Offline EmJayBee83

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Re: Concerning issue for modern Mayhem playing
« Reply #53 on: April 08, 2014, 01:33:41 PM »
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That would be fine with Dominants followed initiative but they don't. Initiative is a clearly defined mechanic for when you can play a card, that Dominants completely ignore.
I am (like you are) proposing to make changes to the rules on how to play dominants. In my case the change is that dominants would start following initiative, but of a higher priority sort that preempts initiative for non dominant cards. So if you have initiative to play a card or change phases or fill-in-the-blank I could say--"No wait, I want to play a dominant."

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Asking your opponent "would you like to play a dominant" is a verbal que to them that if they don't, you are likely going to, it gives them an advantage, and all because we don't have a clearly defined rule for "dominant initiative"
I am proposing that we actually have a defined rule for "dominant initiative." This rule would be a straightforward extension of the existing rules for initiative in a manner that is essentially the de facto standard for how dominants get played in battle proper.

I agree that asking for initiative to possibly play a dominant may give my opponent an advantage--just like asking if I have initiative to play an enhancement signals I may be interested in playing an enhancement. So what we should do is compare the results of our two proposals. Which do you feel is the larger advantage...giving your opponent a verbal clue that you may be interested in playing a dominant or being prevented from playing a dominant at all outside of battle when it is not your turn?

Offline Prof Underwood

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Re: Concerning issue for modern Mayhem playing
« Reply #54 on: April 08, 2014, 05:49:55 PM »
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I agree with MJB's perspective that this really isn't much of a problem as long as players communicate with each other.  By asking if it's their initiative to play an enhancement it gives their opponent an opportunity to play a dominant first.  By asking if their opponent wants to play a dominant, it does the same thing.

Sure it might clue your opponent that you are likely to play a dominant, but there are a few other considerations.  Firstly, I usually know when my opponent is about to play Mayhem anyway because they have cleared their hand on a previous turn.  So them asking me if I want to play a dominant after I draw my 3 cards isn't really giving anything away.  Secondly, just because someone asks if I want to play a dominant doesn't mean that they will.  They could be psyching me out to get me to use the cards in my hand sub-optimially out of fear of their coming dominant that never materializes.  This adds to the strategy of the game.

In any event, at our tournaments (as well as the ones we've been to in OH and TN) we don't seem to have these problems.  We also have a National Champion in our playgroup as well as a dozen other people who placed in the top 10 in something at Nats last summer.  So our group can surely be competitive at times.  But more importantly, we are brothers and sisters in Christ, and we are all friends.  At the end of the day, fellowship is more important, and we enjoy hanging out together.

For anyone interested, we'll be having a state tournament this weekend, and you all welcome to come join us and see it for yourself :)

 


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