Cactus Game Design Message Boards

Is the competitive edge lacking because of not enough people or lack of new and effective strategies? See I didn't like pokemon the best because there are more top tier decks, but most are lacking in originality. They all were minor variations of certain popular decks. I love redemption, and would like to see that happen, however I'm not sure this would bring in more people. I think you may have a good idea for the elevated tournaments though.

The reason I started playing hearthstone was for a new challenge. The competitive level of redemption is not driving me or keeping me around. So I guess the idea that competitive play attracts players for me is based on my own expirience, granted its anecdotal evidence. i don't have some website to back it up but I also believe a competitive player base would help us retain players. 

In the long wrong competition should increase player pool but not in the short run. And even then I know many people who have quit because they feel the game is too competitive for a Christian ccg. The problem with Redemption is that is it is mechanically inferior in terms of strategy to many other ccgs. Strategy builds competition. As for the circuit it sounds like a good idea but a bit unfair for stronger regions.

I am currently putting the finishing touches on something like what is being discussed here. The idea is that higher amounts of prizes will draw more competitive players and benefit the game of Redemption across the board. I am not limiting the participation in higher level tournaments to winners of lower level events, but am offering a qualifier feel to those who win a lower level event by giving them free entry into higher level events. I don't want to reveal my entire hand right now but I will be making a fairly big announcement in the next couple weeks.

I wanted open a board discussion up about the competitive aspect of redemption.

actually competitive is me rage quitting after my opponent gets ahead by one lol kidding.
but to be honest, that idea in my opinion is very iffy cause what about those who have participated in tournaments and not once placed within the top 5?im not sure about that idea cause that is the kind of tournament that wouldn't really bring in a larger player base because of the fact it would be so EXCLUSIVE which I would assume isn't what God intended. I mean put it this way; look at the fact that eternal life through Christ is available to any and all who want to come to him and submit their lives to him
I know this might not be a good analogy to consider but if God had intended for anything to be exclusive then eternal life. so with that being said, with this being a Christian card game, what would be the point in an exclusive tournament? but it would be difficult to come up with ideas for a higher level of play but what we need to do for competitive play is come up with something to increase the level of play andstill make tournaments available for anyone to participate. and I just thought of one; what about splitting up the majority or minority of redemption players by age? so kids could have a chance at championship without worrying about the big dogs knocking their chances down. I mean have a special type of tournament play like an "adult circuit" and a "kids circuit" 

After reading all of these posts, as competitive as I am (eventhough I don't get to many tournies), my fear is that this game has lost some importance.  I started playing this game after I rededicated my life to the Lord and strayed away, thankfully, from MTG.  I was very pleased to realize that Rob created this game to establish a witness for Christianity and to attract these types of gamers.  I think some, not all, have put a competitive emphasis on the game and lost sight as to why the game was created.  Josiah, I do see your point in having a higher level of competition for those that are extremely successful and top notch players.  On the other hand, we have to be careful as to how competitive we get.  We can't make allow the game and our competitive natures get in the way of allowing the game to help lead others to Christ.  From personal experience, I sometimes lose sight of the game's importance through my own competitive nature.  I love going to tournaments to be able to play the game with other people outside my playgroup, but, there are times, when I play people that have been playing this game since it's beginning, I get frustrated when I can't win and Satan uses that against me.  So to make the long story short, I see, Josiah, your point, but, in turn, let's be careful as to not let our competitiveness come in over our hearts to God. That being said...I LOVE ALL YALL!

An exclusive tournament is not meant to push people away but rather give a goal to work towards.  At this point there is very little for a goal oriented person to work towards in redemption. I also tried to make it clear this "higher" level tournaments would not replace cactus sanctioned tournaments. 

As for honoring Christ, how does upping the level of competition for a group of players eliminate the ability to honor God?

Newbs biggest problem with Redemption is order of operations/chains of abilities.

Hearthstone's biggest advantages over Redemption:
1. Online easy access to games, anytime.
2. Scripting of game play to make it smooth and streamlined. When you select a card or a target you can or cannot do things with it. That simple.

Making an online version of Redemption with scripted abilities will allow for players to reference the game rather than having to search the boards or reference the Reg for vague possible answers to questionable commands. This will absolutely have a positive impact on the size and retention rate of the game itself simply for being understood as played rather than in question to begin with.

An exclusive tournament is not meant to push people away but rather give a goal to work towards.  At this point there is very little for a goal oriented person to work towards in redemption. I also tried to make it clear this "higher" level tournaments would not replace cactus sanctioned tournaments. 

As for honoring Christ, how does upping the level of competition for a group of players eliminate the ability to honor God?

1st part: Understood

2nd Part: I'm not saying that upping the competition level eliminates the ability....I'm saying that, since Redemption is a very competitive game, we can easily let our guard down and let our competitive nature get in the way of honoring God with a humble spirit.  This is why I don't play online anymore...for my own person.  As I said before, I am very competitive and every online game inside and outside of ROOT I've lost.  You remember that game you and I played where I made a misplay and didn't put SOG on top after revealing it with Basin and not discarding it with the deck discard soul?  You were very kind to me and would have allowed to replay the move, but, by the grace of God, I was able to play fair and take my mistake and take the loss.  I soooo wanted to replay it but that wouldn't have been very honorable to God, in my opinion.  I almost let my personal frustration get in the way of what was right.  That's all I meant by allowing our competitiveness get in the way...didn't want to come across arrogant...

Age divisions

• There's no monetary value in being a top-tier Redemption player.

This year the national tournament is about eight hours from me. If I came, it would come out to maybe $100 for the entire trip, including gas, food, and tournament fees. I think we can all agree that that's pretty cheap. But here's the thing, I can walk in, win T12P, and I would still be losing money. I could win multiple categories at the biggest tournament of the year and barely break even. And that's only if I value card packs at all, which I probably don't, since if I'm in a position to be winning multiple categories at the national level, I'm probably not hurting for cards. I have zero chance of recouping the cost to make it to tournaments regardless of how good I am. Unlike the four major CCGs, Redemption is something you will always lose money on.

• There's no prestige in being a top-tier Redemption player.

Simply put, less excellent players are making it to any given national tournament than say, five years ago. I managed to make it into the final four last year, and I place absolutely no stock in that, because the field was so shallow. Making top cut last year was the equivalent of making it into the top 15 the year before, because the field lacked top talent like Martin, Westy, Alex, and Matt. I could literally walk into the national tournament this year, somehow win every category, and it would be pretty meaningless, because I would have had to have beaten less great players in order to do it, and people just don't care as much as they used to. I was on board with the competitive side of Redemption for years even with the lack of any monetary incentive because at least you might be respected in the community, but at this point, you don't even get that. Literally every single legitimate competition in the entire world is going to net you money, prestige, or both. Without either, it's hard to get excited about playing Redemption at a high level.

• Redemption's culture is extremely anti-competition.

There are a lot of people who simply don't like serious competition. One needs look no further than arguments we've had about top cut or time limits to see that.

None of this is really a problem if you're only into Redemption for the fellowship side of it. I play CCGs as a competitive outlet though, and over the last two years, I've been less and less incentivized to treat Redemption seriously. There are other CCGs out there that are more what I'm looking for, and so I've moved on, as have others like me. I'm not worried about fighting any battles for the competitive side of Redemption anymore, because those are battles that'll be lost anyway. If you mourn the competitive side of Redemption, your best bet is going to be to find a new hobby.

If you do high cut a low cut what is the point of even playing at nationals if you don't make it. I would rather lose all of my games playing the top competition then win them all playing mediocre competition. If anything this top category should go on in the after hours, which is probably feasible because of the low numbers.