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Offline Daniel TS RED

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Benjamin Question
« on: October 06, 2010, 07:02:10 PM »
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Type: Hero Char. • Brigade: Blue • Ability: 1 / 1 • Class: None • Special Ability: If all of your human Heroes in play are Genesis Heroes, Genesis Enhancements cannot be negated. Otherwise, discard Benjamin after battle. • Play As: If all of your human Heroes in play are Genesis Heroes, Genesis enhancements cannot be negated. Otherwise, discard Benjamin after battle. • Identifiers: OT Male Human, Patriarch, Son of Jacob • Verse: Genesis 49:27 • Availability: Faith of our Fathers booster packs (None)

I'm playing against some1 with a Genesis deck.  I band in their Benjamin and I'm use'n an all teal deck.  Does Ben get dc'd after battle.  What is the definition of "your" in the sa.

Daniel

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Offline Master KChief

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Re: Benjamin Question
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2010, 07:04:50 PM »
+1
possession + control. you dont control benjamin, so he doesnt get dc'd after battle.
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Offline Daniel TS RED

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Re: Benjamin Question
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2010, 07:08:13 PM »
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ok, thanks again man, I appreciate the answers.

Daniel

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browarod

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Re: Benjamin Question
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2010, 11:14:51 PM »
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Quote from: Master KChief on October 06, 2010, 07:04:50 PM
Your = possession + control. You don't possess Benjamin, so he doesn't get dc'd after battle.
Fixed.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2010, 11:28:48 PM by browarod »
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Offline Master KChief

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Re: Benjamin Question
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2010, 11:17:40 PM »
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Quote from: REG
Your
Several cards in Redemption® refer to cards that are “your” cards (e.g., your Priest, your Heroes, your demons, your warrior-class Evil Character, ). The possession and control of a card is implied by the use of the word “your”.

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browarod

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Re: Benjamin Question
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2010, 11:29:07 PM »
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Quote from: Master KChief on October 06, 2010, 11:17:40 PM
Quote from: REG
Your
Several cards in Redemption® refer to cards that are “your” cards (e.g., your Priest, your Heroes, your demons, your warrior-class Evil Character, ). The possession and control of a card is implied by the use of the word “your”.
Fine, I switched it back to "possession", but you still made a mistake. You DO control Benjamin, you DON'T possess him.
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Offline Master KChief

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Re: Benjamin Question
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2010, 11:31:52 PM »
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great. you get a cookie. either way, i gave the correct answer.
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Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Benjamin Question
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2010, 11:32:56 PM »
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Benjamin does get Discarded. Not all of your heroes are Genesis, so the "if not" kicks in. Benjamin's self-discard is not contingent upon him being "yours."
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Offline Master KChief

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Re: Benjamin Question
« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2010, 11:39:34 PM »
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makes sense. i was trying to use charms as precedent, but they are worded differently.
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Offline Daniel TS RED

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Re: Benjamin Question
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2010, 11:10:16 AM »
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Again, 2 different answers, which one is correct?

Daniel

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Lamborghini_diablo

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Re: Benjamin Question
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2010, 11:36:06 AM »
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I would say Ben is discarded if you band to him.

See: Banding to an opponents Wandering spirit, then to your demons. If the opponent drops AoCP, your demon goes under the deck, but WS is discarded, as he is not yours.

If Ben was to say "If all your heroes are genesis, blah blah, if not, discard your Benjamin." then he would not die.
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Ironica

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Re: Benjamin Question
« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2010, 11:59:56 AM »
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The way it sounds like, lamb last point is the same as the ability itself.  In that case, Benny isn't discarded.

Otherwise=if not
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Ironica

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Re: Benjamin Question
« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2010, 12:03:30 PM »
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Another way to look at it:

If
   All your heroes are Genesis

Then
   All enh are cbn

Else
   Discard Benny

Since the if statement is true, then the then statement follows and not the else statement.

Also, it looks like you will also get to play cbn enhancements on their Benny :p
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Lamborghini_diablo

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Re: Benjamin Question
« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2010, 12:14:48 PM »
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Let me use if then statements to compare two versions:

If all your heroes are genesis (This statement can be met, but is false. Heroes in your territory are indeed yours, and are therefore counted for this ability if you use it)
Then all enh are CBN.
Else, discard ben. (This statement can be met, so ben is discarded even if he is not your card).

compare to this:

Let me use if then statements to compare two versions:

If all your heroes are genesis
Then all enh are CBN.
Else, discard your ben. (This statement can not be met, as the card is not yours.)
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Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Benjamin Question
« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2010, 01:23:35 PM »
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Quote from: Ironica on October 07, 2010, 12:03:30 PM
Another way to look at it:

If
   All your heroes are Genesis

Then
   All enh are cbn

Else
   Discard Benny

Since the if statement is true, then the then statement follows and not the else statement.

Also, it looks like you will also get to play cbn enhancements on their Benny :p
You broke it down correctly, but idk where you're drawing your conclusions from. If you band an opponent's Ben into battle and you're using Teal, not all your Heroes are Genesis so the "else" does trigger.
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Ironica

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Re: Benjamin Question
« Reply #15 on: October 07, 2010, 03:12:07 PM »
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I was going off the basis that "your" refers to the owner of the card and not the person who is using the banding.  I haven't research enough rulings to completely understand what "your/owner/player/etc" means.
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Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Benjamin Question
« Reply #16 on: October 07, 2010, 03:15:27 PM »
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Cards are always read from the perspective of the controller. That's why if I have 1 soul and my opponent has 0 but has TGT out, my TGT Heroes gain the ignore powers.
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