Author Topic: Banlist Brainstorming (Read 15498 times)

Isildur · « **Reply #75 on:** November 25, 2012, 06:35:09 PM »

Quote

AUTO is the only card I can think of right now that is still absurdly broken, he's so versatile it's ridiculous.

I still always have to mention that card was never ment to be broken and when used properly in a Gideon deck is really fun! It really wasnt play tested to much extent with Sam decks until the Foof and ROA 2 were released and well... the rest is history ):

Gabe · « **Reply #76 on:** November 25, 2012, 06:47:11 PM »

Whenever the new cards are released, people will think long and hard before attacking with Auto, if they even can.

Josh · « **Reply #77 on:** November 26, 2012, 12:51:55 AM »

Quote from: Gabe on November 25, 2012, 06:47:11 PM

Whenever the new cards are released, people will think long and hard before attacking with Auto, if they even can.

All right, you've piqued my curiosity. + 1 for making me use the word "pique" in a post

...Although I must say, please don't forget about Thaddeus. He may not be flavor of the month right now, but people will remember his dominance and near-literal invincibility if AUTO/Dan/Isaiah/etc. are nerfed.

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #78 on:** November 26, 2012, 12:59:00 AM »

Quote from: Gabe on November 25, 2012, 06:47:11 PM

Whenever the new cards are released, people will think long and hard before attacking with Auto, if they even can.

I feel like we get this every year and in the end nobody plays the counters anyway.

Chris · « **Reply #79 on:** November 26, 2012, 12:49:04 PM »

Quote from: Westy on November 26, 2012, 12:59:00 AM

Quote from: Gabe on November 25, 2012, 06:47:11 PM
Whenever the new cards are released, people will think long and hard before attacking with Auto, if they even can.
I feel like we get this every year and in the end nobody plays the counters anyway.

And before anyone says, "well they could - they just don't!" that's because cards are not the way to counter power creep. Rule changes to discourage speed and banning cards is.

JSB23 · « **Reply #80 on:** November 26, 2012, 01:36:49 PM »

Unless these counters have abilities like "put this card in your territory at the start of the game, draw seven cards instead" Sam decks will still be able to out race them.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #81 on:** November 26, 2012, 01:42:36 PM »

Quote from: JSB23 on November 26, 2012, 01:36:49 PM

Unless these counters have abilities like "put this card in your territory at the start of the game, draw seven cards instead" Sam decks will still be able to out race them.

http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/new-card-ideas/lets-counter-speed-for-real/

Master KChief · « **Reply #82 on:** November 26, 2012, 01:57:08 PM »

Quote from: Chris on November 26, 2012, 12:49:04 PM

Quote from: Westy on November 26, 2012, 12:59:00 AM
Quote from: Gabe on November 25, 2012, 06:47:11 PM
Whenever the new cards are released, people will think long and hard before attacking with Auto, if they even can.
I feel like we get this every year and in the end nobody plays the counters anyway.

And before anyone says, "well they could - they just don't!" that's because cards are not the way to counter power creep. Rule changes to discourage speed and banning cards is.

Excellent point, I have been of this stance for many years. Cards as counters only does so much against a meta that is based entirely on speed.

cookie monster · « **Reply #83 on:** November 26, 2012, 03:32:44 PM »

Quote from: Master KChief on November 26, 2012, 01:57:08 PM

Quote from: Chris on November 26, 2012, 12:49:04 PM
Quote from: Westy on November 26, 2012, 12:59:00 AM
Quote from: Gabe on November 25, 2012, 06:47:11 PM
Whenever the new cards are released, people will think long and hard before attacking with Auto, if they even can.
I feel like we get this every year and in the end nobody plays the counters anyway.

And before anyone says, "well they could - they just don't!" that's because cards are not the way to counter power creep. Rule changes to discourage speed and banning cards is.

Excellent point, I have been of this stance for many years. Cards as counters only does so much against a meta that is based entirely on speed.

Did you look at this post?

Quote from: Lamborghini_diablo on November 26, 2012, 01:42:36 PM

Quote from: JSB23 on November 26, 2012, 01:36:49 PM
Unless these counters have abilities like "put this card in your territory at the start of the game, draw seven cards instead" Sam decks will still be able to out race them.

http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/new-card-ideas/lets-counter-speed-for-real/

This card would help redemption a lot more then banning any card.

Master KChief · « **Reply #84 on:** November 26, 2012, 05:21:58 PM »

Yes. Creating cards like that essentially are just adding another rule to the game. Also, the whole topdecking bit opens a whole nother barrel of monkeys, which is why I'm of the opinion it has low chances of anything similar ever being printed.

cookie monster · « **Reply #85 on:** November 26, 2012, 05:27:59 PM »

Quote from: Master KChief on November 26, 2012, 05:21:58 PM

Yes. Creating cards like that essentially are just adding another rule to the game. Also, the whole topdecking bit opens a whole nother barrel of monkeys, which is why I'm of the opinion it has low chances of anything similar ever being printed.

That part scares me a bit too, but I think a card similar to this would be a substantial step for slowing speed decks.

Ironica · « **Reply #86 on:** November 26, 2012, 09:03:51 PM »

I read around half the thread until my ADD took over

.

I to am against banning cards in the first place. However, since this thread is about which cards should be banned if we do start, I would propose only New Jerusalem and AOCP for ne simple point...They are not in ANY regular starter/booster packs. Besides trading, the only way to get NJ is through the special deal with a starter box (so you can just remove it from market) and the only way to get AOCP is attending a national event (and that promo can easily be removed). Both of these cards have influenced the game badly in it's own ways:

NJ: plenty of people have stated the negative impact of this card

AOCP: It's to CBN as Mickey Mouse is to copyright laws. It is the first CBN and the idea has been passed onto multiple things. The idea was sound (nothing can stop the Authority of Christ) but has been shown to be too OP. People complain too much about TGT when it's enhancements like AOCP that are needed for TGT to work in the first place (I have never understood the fear of TGT when it was actually the fear of territory destruction that ruled in people's (minds).

Isildur · « **Reply #87 on:** November 26, 2012, 09:22:33 PM »

Quote

I would propose only New Jerusalem and AOCP for ne simple point...They are not in ANY regular starter/booster packs. Besides trading, the only way to get NJ is through the special deal with a starter box (so you can just remove it from market) and the only way to get AOCP is attending a national event (and that promo can easily be removed).

Both of these cards are running out so what your really asking is that they are never reprinted :p

Drrek · « **Reply #88 on:** November 26, 2012, 09:30:25 PM »

Quote from: Isildur on November 26, 2012, 09:22:33 PM

Quote
I would propose only New Jerusalem and AOCP for ne simple point...They are not in ANY regular starter/booster packs. Besides trading, the only way to get NJ is through the special deal with a starter box (so you can just remove it from market) and the only way to get AOCP is attending a national event (and that promo can easily be removed).
Both of these cards are running out so what your really asking is that they are never reprinted :p

That would be far worse than them being banned. If no one has access to them, its fair. If only some people can have access to them its not.

ChristianSoldier · « **Reply #89 on:** November 27, 2012, 02:51:51 PM »

Quote from: Ironica on November 26, 2012, 09:03:51 PM

I to am against banning cards in the first place. However, since this thread is about which cards should be banned if we do start, I would propose only New Jerusalem and AOCP for ne simple point...They are not in ANY regular starter/booster packs. Besides trading, the only way to get NJ is through the special deal with a starter box (so you can just remove it from market) and the only way to get AOCP is attending a national event (and that promo can easily be removed). Both of these cards have influenced the game badly in it's own ways:

Actually you can get a Warriors New Jerusalem from a TexP pack, I actually got one recently, but it's still a good point.

Master KChief · « **Reply #90 on:** November 27, 2012, 03:16:40 PM »

That's a pretty legit pull. I've bought tons of boxes of Txp and don't ever recall pulling any Ultra in the Warrior's spot. Very nice pull, considering all the Warriors Ultras are either garbo or reprinted.

cookie monster · « **Reply #91 on:** November 27, 2012, 05:53:22 PM »

I still do not see why AOCP is so OP, I have used it to destroy my entire defense before (there was a purpose). It is a lot harder to play that card effectively enough to call OP since you have to play it before you have the majority of your defense in play and after your opponent has much of his defense in play. In fact, I have never played AOCP to take even half of my opponents defense without taking more then half of my own.

Master KChief · « **Reply #92 on:** November 27, 2012, 06:06:46 PM »

The reason AoCP is unbalanced has less to do with how much of your own defense you have to sacrifice and more to do with how your opponent can literally do nothing in response to it being played. Absolutes are bad game design, especially for one that goes postal on every single Evil Character currently in play.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #93 on:** November 27, 2012, 06:11:45 PM »

Quote from: Master KChief on November 27, 2012, 06:06:46 PM

The reason AoCP is unbalanced has less to do with how much of your own defense you have to sacrifice and more to do with how your opponent can literally do nothing in response to it being played. Absolutes are bad game design, especially for one that goes postal on every single Evil Character currently in play.

Exactly.

Game is 4-4, both players have already used SoG, and then you realize your opponent hasn't played AoCP yet.

That may be one of the most horrifying moments in this game.

Drrek · « **Reply #94 on:** November 27, 2012, 06:28:58 PM »

Quote from: Lamborghini_diablo on November 27, 2012, 06:11:45 PM

Quote from: Master KChief on November 27, 2012, 06:06:46 PM
The reason AoCP is unbalanced has less to do with how much of your own defense you have to sacrifice and more to do with how your opponent can literally do nothing in response to it being played. Absolutes are bad game design, especially for one that goes postal on every single Evil Character currently in play.

Exactly.

Game is 4-4, both players have already used SoG, and then you realize your opponent hasn't played AoCP yet.

That may be one of the most horrifying moments in this game.

Not really because my opponent and I are most likely both playing The Deck or Sam decks in this meta, and any block I had that would give him initiative probably wasn't going to work out for me anyway.

Arrthoa · « **Reply #95 on:** November 27, 2012, 11:22:53 PM »

There are ways to prevent AOCP, the pharisees/sadducees, egyptians, assyrians, and babylonians each have a protect fort that protects those say characters in your territory from discard. Then you have caesera phillipi that protects N.T. human evils from discard on opponent's cards.

Yes if you don't have any of those out you can't do nothing and some will say those cards are worthless to have in a deck.

Gabe · « **Reply #96 on:** November 27, 2012, 11:30:04 PM »

Herod's Temple gets around AoCp in battle too if the blocker is NT. Counters work well if people use them.

IMO, banning cards is the lazy way to deal with things you don't like to face.

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #97 on:** November 27, 2012, 11:32:31 PM »

Another thing I'd like to mention is that OP defensive cards are fairly easily splashed at this point. They came out with Assyrian Survivor, a great way to make sure you won't be Grapes/AotL'd so you can use your awesome Assyrian defense to it's fullest potential. Plus, it gives you inish. What's not to like?

The fact that you can't AotL/Grapes it so they can drop DoU, the only evil enhancement in their deck.

cookie monster · « **Reply #98 on:** November 27, 2012, 11:36:51 PM »

Now you want to ban the counter?!?! This is what can fix the game are cards that make the OP cards not that OP! Assyrian Survivor is a great addition to the game. I have b beat him many times, and he has stopped me from playing cards that you all think are broken just as many times. lets be honest here and see that making more good counters like Assyrian Survivor is actually not as bad an idea as you all think it is.

Isildur · « **Reply #99 on:** November 27, 2012, 11:37:06 PM »

Ok guys Assyrian Survivor is nothing new under the sun

Ive been using Prince of Persia (PG style) for years and no one called the op police on me

News:

Author Topic: Banlist Brainstorming (Read 15498 times)

Warrior_Monk

Chris

Lamborghini_diablo

Ironica

Lamborghini_diablo

Warrior_Monk