Cactus Game Design Message Boards

Priestly Breastplate doesn't work like intended because its "may be activated on" is part of its ability which means it has to be activated normally on the artifact pile before that part even becomes active. Iron Pan is like Magic Charms in that it has an identifier allowing it to be activated elsewhere.

Quote from: Master KChief on July 09, 2011, 05:58:21 PM

because there has to be some people that complain about not having it.

When I was 9 years old, my father told me the secret to being successful. He told me to pick one thing in life and try to do it better than anybody else.

I picked complaining.

I thought you picked not being agreed with and I picked complaining?
(See what I did there?)

Quote from: Smokey on July 09, 2011, 05:15:12 PM

1. How do you know there isn't a low number bab in the new set?

2. There are confirmations of lots of new Disciples / Thadd counters in the new set.

3. Drawing is OP regardless, and that won't change.

I think it's really funny when people try to place spoiled new cards into the current metagame and don't consider the possibility of what other new cards exsist.

1. There's only one Bab, and he does jack squat with this card up

2. I know there are Thad counters, that's why I didn't mention him

3. That's exactly my point, giving Disciples the ability to nuke an opponents entire defense and shut down their (non-disciple) drawing at the cost of Thad is a very favorable trade

I think it's really funny when people act all smug and don't consider the possibility that other people have set lists too   

1. So you knew there was an inish card, but still complained they don't have one.

2. But you mentioned disciples, which will be dead next set regardless.

3. It's not just disciples, ET + AoCp, and the person who plays that will have their defense nuked too.

4. No idea what you're talking about with drawing negation, but drawing will always be the best ability in the game while NJ is still around.

@ smug comment, see point 1.

1. So you knew there was an inish card, but still complained they don't have one.

2. But you mentioned disciples, which will be dead next set regardless.

3. It's not just disciples, ET + AoCp, and the person who plays that will have their defense nuked too.

4. No idea what you're talking about with drawing negation, but drawing will always be the best ability in the game while NJ is still around.

@ smug comment, see point 1.

Who says I have a set list?

1. I'll shut up if you can explain to me how this so called "inish" card counters James SoA, Granny Lois and Mephiboshem

2.

3.

Just curious, Smokey, how exactly do you think ET+AoCP is going to work with Iron Pan up? Just kinda push ET out there and hope you get inish?

4. Lolwut?  Drawing is OP, so if I can draw but you can't that's even more OP. and that's what this card does for Disciples

I think it's really funny when people try to place spoiled new cards into the current metagame and don't consider the possibility of what other new cards exsist.

1. So you knew there was an inish card, but still complained they don't have one.

These two statements make it pretty obvious, unless you're just blowing smoke. 

I have a question, Iron Pan stop Nebuchadnezzar's "add to battle" ability?

Quote from: EmJayBee83 on July 09, 2011, 07:28:49 PM

Quote from: YourMathTeacher on July 09, 2011, 07:02:42 PM

When I was 9 years old, my father told me the secret to being successful. He told me to pick one thing in life and try to do it better than anybody else.

I picked complaining.

Just quoting this to give other people something to agree with.

Wait, is this where I'm supposed to say, "I see what you did there?"

I am not exactly sure, but I think this might be so.  I only hope the new REG includes a section on board etiquette and idioms and such because that would be soooooo helpful.

I get so confused.

Me too.

Quote from: JSB23 on July 09, 2011, 05:37:22 PM

I think it's really funny when people act all smug and don't consider the possibility that other people have set lists too 

I don't understand why so many people have the new set lists. If there are really that many people that know what all the new cards are going to be, why can't we all just have the list?

If I could give a single post multiple + 1s, I'd be here all night.

On a more serious note, the concerns you bring up are legitimate and worth discussing. We looked at these things when we tested Iron Pan, which received quite a bit of scrutiny.

1. It allows AoCP to take out the opponent's entire defense (as mentioned in the article)

This is true, but I think it helps non-Disciples purple more than it helps Disciples. Only James the Lesser gets initiative easily from the Disciples so playing AoCp isn't all that easy in a Disciples offense. We purposefully designed Iron Pan to negate play abilities to avoid the ET+AoCp combo, and because play abilities needed to take a few hits this year.

2. Without playing or searching Babylonians have no real way to get initiative (other then Ashpenaz and Nebushashban) so most characters can get initiative to play the aforementioned AoCP.

In addition to the two characters you've mentioned there are also two 3/3 Babylonian Magicians that are good for initiative among other things. They gain a very nice card this year that I'm pretty sure will cause them to see more play in case Iron Pan isn't enough. Nebuchadnezzar and Nergalsharezer + Swift Horses get past Iron Pan's negate. Add to that another Babylonian that helps with initiative and you have several options  to avoid the dreaded AoCp. If a person using Babylonians loses because of AoCp it won't be because they don't have options.

3. it doesn't hurt Disciples drawing, yes Matthew gets taken out, but Fishing boat and Pentecost are both unaffected (FB is in set aside and Pentecost is a set aside which means it can not be negated).

If Pentecost is played while Iron Pan is active the draw is negated. It was ruled earlier this year (in relation to the Pigs LS) that the draw set-aside cards are not a gained ability but a trigger so they can be prevented or negated. You are correct though that it does not stop Fishing Boat. I've played Disciples quite a bit in T1 and T2 but I haven't found Fishing Boat to be all that amazing for drawing. By the time you have enough Disciples to make it abusive you're already well into your deck. It also leaves you vulnerable to Darius' Decree which has become a lot more popular this season. If you're really concerned about Fishing Boat there will be a way to discard it next season.

In summary I found Iron Pan to be a pretty effective tool against Disciples (and a few other) decks. It did not single handedly beat Disciples. It's not a card I wanted to have active every turn when I had it. But it is very effective, especially if you build your deck to take advantage of it.

I don't understand why so many people have the new set lists. If there are really that many people that know what all the new cards are going to be, why can't we all just have the list?

I've gathered that someone outside of the elder team gained access to a list of the new cards and shared it with others. I apologize to those of you who aren't part of that dishonest group and feel slighted that some people know things you don't. It was never our intention.

It did seem like quite a few people knew a lot more about the new set...  I started to get the feeling that the majority knew, and the minority did not, when it should be the other way around o.O

Carry On,

-C_S

Then this has been 2 years in a row, because I voiced the same concern (as YMT and countersniper) last year.  I'm okay with people playtesting the set...having a vocal minority flaunting (from my perception maybe not true) knowledge of the set can be frustrating especially knowing that other playgroups can keep it a secret.  I don't know what can be done to close Pandora's box, but I would like to state that I still have faith in the current Elders, and I'm glad that they are aware (as evident by Gabe and Mark's response) of the problem.

I don't know what can be done to close Pandora's box

It is harder for some of us to keep things secret than others.  My situation is pretty ideal in a way because I have an isolated playgroup of which I am the only person who is active on the boards.  And even here I don't playtest with everyone in my playgroup.

It would be a lot harder for elders who are regularly playing only with people who are very active on the boards, or who have a hard time keeping things to themselves.

My concern is more about reprints of cards, or cards that make use of other cards. There is a sudden flurry of trading or selling of these cards from people in the know, at the expense of those not in the know.

I hadn't observed this.  Can you list a couple cards that you've seen trading more?  It might have nothing to do with the new set at all.

My concern is more about reprints of cards, or cards that make use of other cards. There is a sudden flurry of trading or selling of these cards from people in the know, at the expense of those not in the know.

It happens every year.  I just pay attention to the trading activity.

If somebody would be able to put in the time to put each revisement up on RTS, that'd be fantastic, but it'd be a lot of work.

FWIW I already do this and test with some elders online. Many don't use RTS though and even the ones that do can't always get their schedules to line up frequently.

Quote from: COUNTER_SNIPER on July 12, 2011, 02:26:22 PM

It did seem like quite a few people knew a lot more about the new set...  I started to get the feeling that the majority knew, and the minority did not, when it should be the other way around o.O

Although it does seem like more people found out about the new set than should have, it certainly was not a majority thing.  Just a very vocal minority

I'm sure that's true, it just seemed like the majority of the consistently active board members knew more than the rest.  Albeit not that a lot was revealed (to me anyway), but with the amount of people hinting that they had "special knowledge," made it seem like very few didn't have a card list.  Again, I'm sure you are 100% right that it really is a minority, it just kind of felt the opposite.

Carry On,

-C_S