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Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Redemption® Resources and Thinktank => Topic started by: New Raven BR on January 06, 2009, 02:03:17 PM

Title: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: New Raven BR on January 06, 2009, 02:03:17 PM
as said,does anybody know what the brigades are in I/J?
how bout you, scheaf?
do you know anything about the I/J decks, that is if rob decides to make em?
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: Cameron the Conqueror on January 06, 2009, 02:06:17 PM
I really hope I/J are released this year.  IMO, it makes sense.  The economy is bad, and people will buy starter decks as a cheap fun thing.  I really don't want to purchase any more expensive tins. :(
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on January 06, 2009, 02:14:42 PM
I doubt they will do tins specially since (if memory serves) rob said itll be starters.
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: New Raven BR on January 06, 2009, 02:18:48 PM
I doubt they will do tins specially since (if memory serves) rob said itll be starters.
then it's not a matter of if but will.
I/J will be released this year but the question is: what does rob have in mind for the I deck's and J deck's offense and defense?
i say Teal should go in one and orange should go in the other since there hasn't been a starter out after when preists was released
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on January 06, 2009, 02:23:42 PM
I believe they shouldn't even though I lack the power to change anything. Orange and Teal both have themes of power. Teal uses offerings which don't dirrectly win a battle. Orange uses bottom of the draw pile/using other brigades enhancements. Both seem a bit advanced for starters. Also does anyone think curses/covs will be in the starters?>
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: Sean on January 06, 2009, 02:32:07 PM
Cactus has done a really good job balancing the starter decks the past two releases so I don't think how certain brigades win is a factor for deciding what brigades will be in the starters.

Sean
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: New Raven BR on January 06, 2009, 02:32:31 PM
that's a good question,rr
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: DaClock on January 06, 2009, 02:33:07 PM
I believe they shouldn't even though I lack the power to change anything. Orange and Teal both have themes of power. Teal uses offerings which don't dirrectly win a battle. Orange uses bottom of the draw pile/using other brigades enhancements. Both seem a bit advanced for starters. Also does anyone think curses/covs will be in the starters?>

I hope not. I would like to see starters that don't have too much outside of Lost Souls, Heroes, Evil Characters and Enhancements. It is much easier to teach newer players without having to worry about sites, artifacts, covenants, curses, weapons, etc.
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on January 06, 2009, 02:38:12 PM
I 100% agree with ya.
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: DaClock on January 06, 2009, 03:17:06 PM
Along with that, it is probably easier for people that aren't being taught to pick up the box and play a game if there aren't as many parts involved. However, I'm not a play tester or a new player so I don't know for sure.
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: Cameron the Conqueror on January 06, 2009, 04:31:36 PM
Quote
then it's not a matter of if but will.
You don't know that for sure Andy

Quote
Orange and Teal both have themes of power. Teal uses offerings which don't dirrectly win a battle. Orange uses bottom of the draw pile/using other brigades enhancements.

I disagree that Teal is based on offerings.  I think both could easily and simply be put into starters
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: STAMP on January 06, 2009, 05:13:42 PM
G/H was really good for themes.  I think I/J will be more of the same, maybe some civilization themes like more with Philistines or more for musicians, etc.


I just foresee (pun intended) a problem with recognizing the differtence between an I and a J, what with my failing eyesight.   :D   I still have problems with E/F and finally just had to memorize which cards are in which.   ;)


Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: Prof Underwood on January 06, 2009, 05:20:49 PM
I think that it would make sense to make the starter decks with brigades that still could use some more help.  I think that it would make sense to have orange for one of the defenses and brown as the other.  There are some decent medium power type cards that would benefit both.  For instance an orange panic demon and obsidian minion, or some Persians.

On offense, I think that good gold and white could still use the most help.  Some medium powered Luke cards for gold and perhaps some Daniel stuff for white.  All of these would add something to the overall game while still being pretty easy to use for new players.
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: New Raven BR on January 06, 2009, 05:22:45 PM
I think that it would make sense to make the starter decks with brigades that still could use some more help.  I think that it would make sense to have orange for one of the defenses and brown as the other.  There are some decent medium power type cards that would benefit both.  For instance an orange panic demon and obsidian minion, or some Persians.

On offense, I think that good gold and white could still use the most help.  Some medium powered Luke cards for gold and perhaps some Daniel stuff for white.  All of these would add something to the overall game while still being pretty easy to use for new players.
i think silver and teal need to be in I/J
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: Sean on January 06, 2009, 06:38:23 PM
Quote
i think silver and teal need to be in I/J
Why?

Sean
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: New Raven BR on January 06, 2009, 06:40:15 PM
Quote
i think silver and teal need to be in I/J
Why?

Sean
cause silver is in desperate need of help
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: Rawrlolsauce! on January 06, 2009, 06:41:22 PM
I think Teal and Orange are the two most important. They need to work on themes ;).

I can't wait for the orange. Here in Minnesota we already agreed that orange was OP'ed (and we've all been using it for about a year), but giving it a few more solid battle winners and demons would be great.
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: Sean on January 06, 2009, 06:47:03 PM
Quote
cause silver is in desperate need of help
What game are you playing?

Sean
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: New Raven BR on January 06, 2009, 06:47:35 PM
what are you trying to quote, sean? XD
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: Sean on January 06, 2009, 06:48:40 PM
Quote
what are you trying to quote, sean? XD
An ignorant post.

Sean
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: Tsavong Lah on January 06, 2009, 06:50:42 PM
My guesses:

They'll do Genesis heroes to push towards the completion of the twelve tribes of Israel, they'll do Philistines because it got neglected in RoA but has a lot of background from previous sets, they'll do Demons because they're relatively new but still fairly weak, and they'll fill in Brown, probably with Persians.
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: New Raven BR on January 06, 2009, 06:51:14 PM
Quote
cause silver is in desperate need of help
What game are you playing?

Sean
Redemption, duh.
and there isn't hardly any battle winners in silver
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: Sean on January 06, 2009, 06:53:14 PM
Raven, I don't think you have any idea of what you're talking about.  Silver has a bunch of battle winners and a bunch of very good characters.

Sean
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: Red on January 06, 2009, 06:56:22 PM
i can name a frew  fire somke and sufur
7th trumpet
vectory
spirtuel brings
tsa
coth+jacob
miceal any of the abvoe and army of the lord andy ha
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: EmJayBee83 on January 06, 2009, 07:03:06 PM
In the spirit of G/H's Moses versus the Egyptians competing themes, I could see Angels vs. Demons for I/J. Orange still could use some pumping up, and Silver has been a little neglected in the last three sets.
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: Isildur on January 06, 2009, 07:09:18 PM
I doubt they will do tins specially since (if memory serves) rob said itll be starters.
I can quote him saying they were "planning to make starters" and back then nothing was officaly finalized and also to say, things in the past have been planned and cards were made but the set was completely canncled (such as what was before the foof tins were first thought of) so you never know what will happen.
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: Alex_Olijar on January 06, 2009, 07:16:57 PM
G/H is not a good measuring stick since it was not a true starter as much as a tenth anniversary special.
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: New Raven BR on January 06, 2009, 07:18:23 PM
i can name a frew  fire somke and sufur
7th trumpet
vectory
spirtuel brings
tsa
coth+jacob
miceal any of the abvoe and army of the lord andy ha
jacob isn't silver.
by battle winners i mean enhancment-wise
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: Red on January 06, 2009, 07:19:28 PM
come on it wins the battle :D
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: Isildur on January 06, 2009, 07:20:35 PM
G/H is not a good measuring stick since it was not a true starter as much as a tenth anniversary special.
Idk what your post means but the past starters all had a few complicated cards and was very uneven in many peoples opinions for sealed so the next will will by focused diffrently then starters past.
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: DaClock on January 06, 2009, 08:38:49 PM
i can name a frew  fire somke and sufur
7th trumpet
vectory
spirtuel brings
tsa
coth+jacob
miceal any of the abvoe and army of the lord andy ha
jacob isn't silver.
by battle winners i mean enhancment-wise

Ok, battle winning enhancements in silver.

Fire, Smoke and Sulfur
Seventh Trumpet
Might of Angels
The Book of Life
Spiritual Warfare
Bound
Victory
Death of the Firstborn
Defeating the Enemy
Primary Objective
The Sixth Seal
Striking Herod
Witness to Creation
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: New Raven BR on January 06, 2009, 08:57:27 PM
witnesses to creation does NOTHING.
it's a useless enhancment.
and death of the firstborn
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: JSB23 on January 06, 2009, 09:05:33 PM
No, WTC with three nails means win and Death of firstborn gets rid of their first choice for blocking
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: Captain Kirk on January 06, 2009, 09:12:50 PM
witnesses to creation does NOTHING.
it's a useless enhancment.
and death of the firstborn

Raven,
I'd like you to say that to Justin Alstad after he schools you with his Witnesses to Creation deck.

Kirk
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: DaClock on January 06, 2009, 09:15:20 PM
witnesses to creation does NOTHING.
it's a useless enhancment.
and death of the firstborn

Ok, so that brings the list down to 11 battle winners. That is WAY more than most decks need or use. Plus, there are tons of cool supplement cards for silver like Three Angels, Gathering of Angels, Flaming Sword, Innumerable, Angel's Sword, etc.
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: New Raven BR on January 06, 2009, 09:43:37 PM
witnesses to creation does NOTHING.
it's a useless enhancment.
and death of the firstborn

Raven,
I'd like you to say that to Justin Alstad after he schools you with his Witnesses to Creation deck.

Kirk
i'v used it before i believe and it's not a good card
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: EmJayBee83 on January 06, 2009, 09:51:36 PM
witnesses to creation does NOTHING.
it's a useless enhancment.
I'd like you to say that to Justin Alstad after he schools you with his Witnesses to Creation deck.

I hate that deck. In a totally wish I had thought of it kinda way.

Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: Sean on January 06, 2009, 11:04:03 PM
Quote
I hate that deck. In a totally wish I had thought of it kinda way.
I don't know if anybody can take credit for that combo, it was pretty obvious when Witnesses was released.

Sean
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: lightningninja on January 06, 2009, 11:46:18 PM
I know a few of the cards that will be in it and at least one brigade but I'll just  :-X for now. Don't want to say anything that shoudln't be realeased yet.  :)
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: DaClock on January 07, 2009, 12:53:03 AM
Quote
I hate that deck. In a totally wish I had thought of it kinda way.
I don't know if anybody can take credit for that combo, it was pretty obvious when Witnesses was released.

Sean

Agreed. However, Justin was the first person I knew that used it with a lot of success in T2.
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on January 07, 2009, 02:57:57 AM
Quote
then it's not a matter of if but will.
You don't know that for sure Andy

Quote
Orange and Teal both have themes of power. Teal uses offerings which don't dirrectly win a battle. Orange uses bottom of the draw pile/using other brigades enhancements.

I disagree that Teal is based on offerings.  I think both could easily and simply be put into starters
Not many teal enhancements aren't offerings be them 'offerings' on the altar or not. Even Zeal for the Lord is an offering of effort.

Andy Silver has huge FBTN, CBN WC, Weapon to P 1st, Battle winners out the kazoo and alot more. I don't like silver but it IS good. The issue is using it right. (Iaholy abuse just to add on). Andy you've used alot of cards, you said they weren't good. I've used most of the cards you said weren't good. I'm winning, You're not. See the idea? ;)
Don't be so closed minded. Witness is great if you use 3 nails+A big defense.

So I guess my point is...
Look! These points of data make a beautiful line!

----------     /\               ----------         |
|               /   \                   |              |
|---          / --- \                  |              |
|            /         \                |              |
|          /             \         ---------         |-------

Just for you Andy!                 

But seriously. Just cuz you don't like it, Doesn't make it bad.                  
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: The Guardian on January 07, 2009, 03:17:24 AM
Quote
Agreed. However, Justin was the first person I knew that used it with a lot of success in T2.

Since the WTC/3 Nails combo does take forever to get going, the trick was to find the best way to complement it. I used Captain banding with 3 Angels plus some Teal splash (Joshua/Phinehas/Zeal)--basically some fast-hitting combos for early rescues. It was also important to have the right defense that could stall long enough, and for the most part Brown did the trick.

However, I do recall one game in particular in which my opponent had a combination of Judas (stopped Zeal & 7th Trumpet on Michael) and Asherah Pole (made Captain/3 Angels worthless). In that game, I used all 5 Witnesses plus Son of God/New Jerusalem to get to 7--ironically, my opponent did have Leviathan in his deck but never drew it.
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: New Raven BR on January 07, 2009, 09:33:09 AM
how bout if you lay off,rr?!
huh?!your not doing ANYTHING to help!
that just prooves to me that i'm right that silver and teal need a boost as well as red.cause we all know that red is the weakest brigade in the game
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: Isildur on January 07, 2009, 10:10:35 AM
....YOU know that red is the weakest but by far it is not
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: Gabe on January 07, 2009, 10:28:14 AM
Red is not weak.  The people that play red are weak.

That is all.

Thank you.
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: New Raven BR on January 07, 2009, 10:29:28 AM
Red is not weak.  The people that play red are weak.

That is all.

Thank you.
yeah cause i have a weak red brigade.
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: Prof Underwood on January 07, 2009, 10:43:00 AM
Red is not weak.  The people that play red are weak.
Hey now.  My Christmas Deck (Red Good / Green Evil) was pretty successful. (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/index.php?topic=12788.msg201134#msg201134)
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: Gabe on January 07, 2009, 11:14:35 AM
Red is not weak.  The people that play red are weak.
Hey now.  My Christmas Deck (Red Good / Green Evil) was pretty successful. (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/index.php?topic=12788.msg201134#msg201134)

It's true, but that's because "Red is not weak."  It's more difficult to play than brigades like Teal or Silver.  Less experienced players try to use and don't have as much success because of this.  A seasoned vet such as yourself has the skillz to harness the power of red.
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: The Spy on January 07, 2009, 11:53:36 AM
Red is not weak.  The people that play red are weak.
Hey now.  My Christmas Deck (Red Good / Green Evil) was pretty successful. (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/index.php?topic=12788.msg201134#msg201134)

It's true, but that's because "Red is not weak."  It's more difficult to play than brigades like Teal or Silver.  Less experienced players try to use and don't have as much success because of this.  A seasoned vet such as yourself has the skillz to harness the power of red.
My Red deck was 3 years in the making. :o I know what you mean! It isn't so cut and dry for Red. Even the WC theme is not so plain and simple like Teal. There is no Z-Temple for Red, no Trumpet blast... Red uses much more subtle strategies. 8)
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: New Raven BR on January 07, 2009, 11:59:25 AM
well my red brigade is weak, which is why im saying by my own experiance that red needs a boost
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on January 07, 2009, 12:33:28 PM
Andy your own experience isn't the power of the brigades. The issue is your experience isn't that good. You are becoming an ok deck builder and a mediocer player but just cuz you don't know how to use something doesn't make it bad. People used to think heroless was impossible but that was because they didn't know how to build and use it ;).
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: New Raven BR on January 07, 2009, 12:43:56 PM
i may not know how to use red but looking into my red brigade in my collection i say i wouldn't win with it if i did use it and know how to play it
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on January 07, 2009, 12:46:26 PM
If you admit you don't know how to use it, you can't judge it dude.
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: New Raven BR on January 07, 2009, 12:50:54 PM
If you admit you don't know how to use it, you can't judge it dude.
if you saw my stash of red you'd agree with me
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: DaClock on January 07, 2009, 01:29:02 PM
If you admit you don't know how to use it, you can't judge it dude.
if you saw my stash of red you'd agree with me

Until you have all of the cards in the Red brigade I don't think it's fair to judge how good you could do with it.
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: Isildur on January 07, 2009, 06:18:18 PM
+ 1
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: Rubber band warrior on January 07, 2009, 06:48:27 PM
Agreed. I do own every card in Red, and, while I don't use it, it's not because it's not good. I'm sure there are some very good decks out there that are Red. I don't use it because it's not my style. Just because it's not my style doesn't mean I'm not afraid of it coming up and slapping me in the face when I least expect it.
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: Gohanick on January 08, 2009, 03:38:13 PM
The thing about starter cards is that their abilities are generally simple due to the nature of them being in the starter decks. This is a good thing and bad thing.

Good being that they are simple to use, not much discrepancies on how to play the cards etc..

Bad being if they are too simple, the experienced players won't really need to buy them (unless they play sealed) and if there are good cards, they generally become a staple card in decks that rely on that color (ex lydia). Because they have simple yet powerful abilities, things can get out of hand rather quickly.
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: JSB23 on January 08, 2009, 03:46:19 PM
no, we are overdue for a new starter deck 
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: lightningninja on January 08, 2009, 03:51:20 PM
no, we are overdue for a new starter deck 

have you any idea how many people lost ther job be-cause of the econ situation? if cactus sells starters then its not gonna do them any good cause people have housing bills & car bills. and now seince obama is president you have no idea how many other jobs people are gonna lose.
Please let's not start insulting Obama in this thread...

And I think starters would be BETTER since the economy, right guys?
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: YourMathTeacher on January 08, 2009, 04:07:21 PM
And I think starters would be BETTER since the economy, right guys?

I don't think so, personally. When money is tight, people may dish out $3 for a pack, but not $10 for a starter. For repeat sales, packs will continue to sell, while starters are a one-time purchase. Sealed Deck participation will increase at tournaments for a little while when new starters come out, but will wane over time. Some people would play more Sealed Deck just for the opportunity to pick up three of a new booster set. Booster Draft hosts would have to decide whether to include a new booster pack separate from the tins.

The bottom line is that a new starter set would cost more money for hosts to keep in supply. Booster packs have a faster turn around and generate more profit. As a small-time host, that is the dilemma I face. That was the same problem I had with the tins. I can't afford to keep a large stock of tins, and my students didn't buy very many. But $3 burns a hole in kids' pockets, so I sold a ton of booster packs.
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: DaClock on January 08, 2009, 09:04:03 PM
I think that Cactus needs to do whatever is best for their business during the recession. I believe that finding new players to buy current inventory is a great way to do that. This can be facilitated through easy-to-learn starters which is why I think they're the best option currently.
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: Alex_Olijar on January 08, 2009, 09:19:07 PM
Good point.
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: lightningninja on January 08, 2009, 09:33:43 PM
That my friend is exactly what I was trying to say
And you were giving a valid point saying, "stop talking about what you know nothing about?"

Please don't hold people to a standard you don't hold yourself to. And knock it off, guys, okay? Seriously.  :-\
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: Red on January 08, 2009, 09:35:00 PM
 +1 +1
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: Alex_Olijar on January 08, 2009, 11:10:46 PM
It's nepotism! Cold hearted nepotism!  How could you MJB?

 :P
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: lightningninja on January 09, 2009, 06:27:32 PM
Please don't hold people to a standard you don't hold yourself to.

And the post where he apologized?  You skipped that because...

I honelsty didn't see that... where was that? Sorry I missed that MJB...  :-[
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: JSB23 on January 09, 2009, 11:04:30 PM
A mod has been here................
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: EmJayBee83 on January 09, 2009, 11:23:19 PM
I deleted my post, FireNinja. A mod (or roving group of mods) deleted the previous side discussion sometime after I posted.
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: galadgawyn on January 10, 2009, 09:54:18 AM
I hear what you are saying about people not wanting to spend $10 on a starter deck.  I think that it is mostly psychological since people usually end up spending way more on booster packs but that doesn't mean it doesn't affect what people buy.  I know this will probably never happen but here is my ideal scenario:

Since there are 8 brigades, make 8 new starter decks (of course orange gets 2 because they need the help).  They will each be 56 card starter decks instead of 100.  Each deck has one good brigade and one evil brigade which keeps it simpler for new players, allows them to build up a deck easier, can easily enhance themes that way, and still allows for some interesting complexity for more advanced players.  I would make each deck focus on different strategies so it would be helpful for teaching new players.  Also some would use fortresses, some curses/covs, some weapon class, etc so you don't have to teach those or banding, site lockout, negating, immunity, capturing, etc. all at once.  Of course even with their differences, they still need to all have an equal chance of winning.

I think this would greatly boost the sealed deck category.  I enjoy playing sealed deck but it gets boring after 8 rounds/8 tournaments to always be playing against only 2 types of decks.  I also know people that would like to play Redemption but HATE deck building (which I love).  This would make it easier for people to just pick up a deck and play.

I would also use this as an opportunity to help new players by reprinting Dominants.  It is hard for new players to compete if all they have is the original starter deck Doms.  I also think it is more interesting if the decks don't all have the same Doms.  Of course I don't want to kill the value of cards like DoN so these new cards would be lesser non UR reprints.  Examples:  Guardian of Souls - Protect all lost souls in all players land of Redemption from Falling Away.  Falling Away - You may choose any lost soul with a special ability in a land of Redemption and place it in your Land of Bondage.  Destruction of Nehustan - You may discard any O.T. artifact.  That artifact is negated. 

I know that it would be very financially difficult for Cactus to release these all at once so maybe they could plan for all 8 and release a couple at a time with a small (100?) booster set?  If none of my ideas happen, I'm sure I'll still want to get whatever they do release.
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: EmJayBee83 on January 10, 2009, 01:34:05 PM
I really like galadgawyn's idea of multiple starter decks. I don't know whether it is practical or not, but I like it. I do have one suggestion...

I would probably go with quad-brigade (two good/two evil) decks instead of dual-brigade decks. I would make the brigades so that there were two good/evil pairs that each match up with combos in FoOF/RoA tins. That way when a new player wanted to upgrade his deck he could buy one tin from Cactus and be good to go.

Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: DaClock on January 10, 2009, 03:10:00 PM
I like the idea of a bunch of new starters. However, I doubt it would happen because you would need to print around 500 individual cards for a complete set. That would be pretty expensive for Cactus and for tournament hosts.
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: Prof Underwood on January 10, 2009, 11:46:17 PM
I'm torn on this idea of having new starters that match up with FooF or RoA tins.  For the beginning player I think that would be the cheapest way to quickly put together a deck that could at least compete at larger tournaments.

However, for Cactus, that is not very good for business.  I'm sure that Rob would appreciate it if a new player bought a starter deck and then had to buy separate FooF or RoA tins to boost their offense and defense.  Realistically even in that scenario, you're paying $10 + $15 + $15 for a total of $40.  That is incredibly cheap for a tournament competitive CCG deck, and about the same as teenagers pay all the time for their latest video game.

Besides trying to keep Cactus on solid financial ground, I also like the idea of more people buying FooF and RoA tins for 2 other reasons.  The first is that it means that the old boosters will sell out faster meaning reprints of older cards (like the apostles who are probably the most underpowered cards in the game compared to their Biblical significance).  The second is that it will lead to more people being able to trade FooF and RoA cards, which could enliven the extremely diminished trading aspect of Redemption.
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: Captain Falcon on January 16, 2009, 04:29:48 PM
I doubt they will do tins specially since (if memory serves) rob said itll be starters.
then it's not a matter of if but will.
I/J will be released this year but the question is: what does rob have in mind for the I deck's and J deck's offense and defense?
i say Teal should go in one and orange should go in the other since there hasn't been a starter out after when preists was released

I just hope there's a green prophet with numbers bitter than 10/10.
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: Captain Falcon on January 16, 2009, 04:42:29 PM

that's a good question,rr

what's rr? ???


G/H was really good for themes.  I think I/J will be more of the same, maybe some civilization themes like more with Philistines or more for musicians, etc.


I just foresee (pun intended) a problem with recognizing the differtence between an I and a J, what with my failing eyesight.   :D   I still have problems with E/F and finally just had to memorize which cards are in which.   ;)




rofl
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on January 16, 2009, 04:43:43 PM
that's a good question,rr

what's rr? ???
I am.

Ok, Double posting is bad. Tripple posting is WORSE. Please PLEASE PLEASE use the edit button. You can quote multiple people in one post.
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: lightningninja on January 23, 2009, 05:40:50 PM
How? I've always wondered how people do that...
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on January 23, 2009, 06:34:00 PM
Two ways 1 is Hit quote then C/P the quotes. Another is... If you use the full post instead of the quick post there is a list of the posts in the current thread with a 'insert quote' button on the right hand side.
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: Tsavong Lah on January 23, 2009, 07:29:26 PM
Or you could just do it the old fashioned message board way:

Copy+Paste the line of text, and use the quote tags around the text: [ quote ][ /quote ] without the spaces. I do it all the time. ;)
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: mrlane13 on February 19, 2009, 02:09:24 PM
these heated discussions are verry helpull for the new player (my self) to get inside the better players mind on ideas that have taken time to formulate. thanks for all these posts. they have helped me along a little in a few diferent matters. although most of it is still confusing :-[, i have grasped some stuff out of it all. :)

thanks all!

Lane
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: New Raven BR on February 01, 2010, 05:00:30 PM
how did i miss this?
anyways lane, your very welcome and to get this discussion back up and rolling

will 2009-2010 season be the season we see I/J finnaly make it's release?
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: Red on February 01, 2010, 05:06:01 PM
wow andy what a necroe post and i hope we do see the new decks this year.
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: New Raven BR on February 01, 2010, 05:09:39 PM
sry, it's been over a year since i first started this thread and plus not only are we discussing it but we're helping people like Lane receive insight, which is a very good thing :)

but anyways i hope to see I/J in lifeway later this year

what colors for offense and defense are gonna be offered in the decks?

i think i'll be orange and teal
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: Cameron the Conqueror on February 01, 2010, 05:14:27 PM
I've said this before, but I'm pretty sure (90%) that on one of his request threads, Bryon said the best set is not a starter.  However, I'm pretty sure he hinted the next one (2011) might be. 
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: Alex_Olijar on February 01, 2010, 05:15:02 PM
They already said no starter decks this year, so you won't be seeing them anytime soon.
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: New Raven BR on February 01, 2010, 05:19:31 PM
i wouldn't know i wasn't at nats last year and i may not ever go to a nationals cause that's tradition, raven never goes to nationals cause he has reasons for not going  :P
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: hi123 on February 01, 2010, 07:41:48 PM
as said,does anybody know what the brigades are in I/J?
how bout you, scheaf?
do you know anything about the I/J decks, that is if rob decides to make em?
WOw, more starter Decks, but why, and What would Be In Them?!?!
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: BubbleBoy on February 01, 2010, 10:54:24 PM
I'm up for starters, but...I hope they would have all useful cards. In all previous starters, only a very small percentage of the cards were usable outside sealed deck. I would love to see starters, but only if they consisted of at least 50% (hopefully more like 90%) useful cards.
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: Alex_Olijar on February 02, 2010, 08:57:32 AM
If they had that many useful cards, it's a bad starter deck.
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: Shrimpoli on February 02, 2010, 04:19:00 PM
I like starter deks not only because i like the new 100 or so cads for my collection but how i can use them to possibly pair with my other cards and make brigades i normally dont use usefull... but like bubbleboy said they should have some useful cards... not exactly difficult ones but deffinitally make it worth spending some money on...
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: TheMarti on February 02, 2010, 04:19:17 PM
Honestly, you can create a pretty good deck out of G/H deck stuff, i.e. Roy's "poor man's decks" for T2 (they aren't the best but they're functional). But I do agree that was an "anniversary" thing and not just a standard deck.

Anyway, we do need a new starter. I love sealed deck, but I would like a new challenge. :) But I do understand the economy thoughts. Cactus needs to do what it needs to do to keep rollin. :)

~Marti
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: RTSmaniac on December 10, 2012, 12:43:53 PM
necropost longtime waiting...
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: YourMathTeacher on December 11, 2012, 07:56:09 AM
necropost longtime waiting...

Not if you're a playtester.... I'm sure the decks have been quite fun...  ;D

Rob already said his peace. There is no need to bring up the new starters until well after the Holidays (i.e. MLK Day, Valentine's Day). Unless you are offering insider information, of course.  :prayer:
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: Chris on December 11, 2012, 12:20:56 PM
necropost longtime waiting...

Not if you're a playtester.... I'm sure the decks have been quite fun...  ;D

Rob already said his peace. There is no need to bring up the new starters until well after the Holidays (i.e. MLK Day, Valentine's Day). Unless you are offering insider information, of course.  :prayer:

The only update we've gotten from Rob was "sometime in the Spring" and that was at least a month ago. I, for one, would like to know if that's still the plan, or if it's gotten delayed again.
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: CJSports on December 11, 2012, 03:18:14 PM
I think the safest yet most unfortunate guess would have to be Nats 2013. Hopefully we won't have to wait that long.
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: New Raven BR on December 11, 2012, 09:34:25 PM
necropost longtime waiting...

Not if you're a playtester.... I'm sure the decks have been quite fun...  ;D

Rob already said his peace. There is no need to bring up the new starters until well after the Holidays (i.e. MLK Day, Valentine's Day). Unless you are offering insider information, of course.  :prayer:
wish there was a tkp/ywtu day just sayin  ;)
Title: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: jbeers285 on December 11, 2012, 09:52:54 PM
I am with Cj on this I think we need to realize that no set will be out until nats x

It's like a season without a new set. . . I just hope this doesn't set a precedent of one set every two seasons.

Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: RTSmaniac on December 11, 2012, 11:10:07 PM
Quote
January 06, 2009, 02:03:17 PM


I just brought this post back up because I thought it was neat we were talking about it so long ago...
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: Chris on December 12, 2012, 12:35:01 AM
I am with Cj on this I think we need to realize that no set will be out until nats x

It's like a season without a new set. . . I just hope this doesn't set a precedent of one set every two seasons.

We've been told multiple times that there would be a new set this Spring, and Rob hasn't made a habit of outright lying. That said, like I noted in my previous post, I think we're entitled to an update on the progress of it.
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: Warrior_Monk on December 12, 2012, 12:57:59 AM
Rob said (if I remember correctly...I can't find the post on Cactus or Facebook anywhere, and I know they were both here) that finances were holding the release back, and he needed X amount of money, which he projected to be in April.

Personally, I don't like the idea of a new set released in April. It's too close to the large tournament time. I think it should be released at nats 2013. Chris does make a point though--Rob doesn't make a habit of lying. I think we'll get an update near the first of the year (and soon Nats threads will begin popping up too) and we'll get the set when we usually begin just talking about spoilers for the new set...but one year later.
Title: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: jbeers285 on December 12, 2012, 01:07:08 AM
I was not by any means attempting to say to rob was lying. That said I can see how my post could be interpreted that way and apologize.  I'm personally trying to prepare for the worst case scenario and hope for the best.
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: Ironica on December 12, 2012, 02:08:59 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but IIRC, there was another year when there was no set.  I think it was around a starter box too.
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: Chris on December 12, 2012, 03:47:36 AM
I was not by any means attempting to say to rob was lying. That said I can see how my post could be interpreted that way and apologize.  I'm personally trying to prepare for the worst case scenario and hope for the best.

I didn't mean to intend that you were accusing Rob of lying, I was just clarifying why I haven't yet resigned myself to the possibility that we won't get the new set until Nats '13, even if the lack of progress reports is unsettling. Assuming the new set goes to print in time for it to be released around April, I see no reason that the cards shouldn't be released online, so that the people who seriously care about competing can start fiddling with the new decks and establishing the meta. We underwent a major meta change back in March, and recovered in time for a complete meta shift to take place the day of T12P at Nats. I see no reason we can't do the same thing, provided the powers at be decide to release the cards. If we go the entire season without a new set, I imagine this will be the slowest tournament season in a decade.
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: Master KChief on December 12, 2012, 05:07:25 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but IIRC, there was another year when there was no set.  I think it was around a starter box too.

It was between Womens and Warriors. 2 year hiatus. Warriors ended up being the gamble that kept the game alive.
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: YourMathTeacher on December 12, 2012, 08:03:05 AM
Rob said (if I remember correctly...I can't find the post on Cactus or Facebook anywhere, and I know they were both here) that finances were holding the release back, and he needed X amount of money, which he projected to be in April.

I seem to recall $40,000 as that X amount.

If we go the entire season without a new set, I imagine this will be the slowest tournament season in a decade.

This will likely be true regardless thanks to the present economy. If you want to guarantee the April release of the new starters, then I suggest you host lots of tournaments to help reach that $40K goal.
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: CJSports on December 12, 2012, 08:51:47 AM
I am with Cj on this I think we need to realize that no set will be out until nats x

It's like a season without a new set. . . I just hope this doesn't set a precedent of one set every two seasons.

We've been told multiple times that there would be a new set this Spring, and Rob hasn't made a habit of outright lying. That said, like I noted in my previous post, I think we're entitled to an update on the progress of it.

I only sya this because, the original release date was Nats 2012. Then it got pushed back to New Year's. Now it's April. I'm just saying that it is a very strong possibility they might have to push it back again wnad what would make the most sense? Nats 2013.
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: KingLeo on December 12, 2012, 10:02:55 AM
Rob said (if I remember correctly...I can't find the post on Cactus or Facebook anywhere, and I know they were both here) that finances were holding the release back, and he needed X amount of money, which he projected to be in April.

I seem to recall $40,000 as that X amount.

If we go the entire season without a new set, I imagine this will be the slowest tournament season in a decade.

This will likely be true regardless thanks to the present economy. If you want to guarantee the April release of the new starters, then I suggest you host lots of tournaments to help reach that $40K goal.
Well to speed up the process we could do a fundraiser on the boards like.... if you have a triplet of a card donate it to the fund and have it sold to support cactus gaming design. One person would collect the cards and make sure the money goes where it needs to go.

KingLeo 8)
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: Gabe on December 12, 2012, 11:19:12 AM
I know Rob considered the idea of using kickstarter to raise funds for the new starters and/or a larger release. But I haven't heard anything more than you guys. I'm still hopeful for a spring release.

Because of the extra time we've had, the starters are some of the most well developed cards I've seen since I started play testing. I've used them to teach over 16 new players this past fall. They are easily the best teaching tool I've seen. They're simple, yet powerful and fun to play. They include cards for all types of players, from newbies, to casual to advanced players. I'm really excited for them to become available to the Redemption community.
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: theselfevident on December 12, 2012, 12:12:22 PM
Would Rob look at doing Pre-orders with possibly doing a tourney promo for those who pre-pay? That would be a way to get funds sooner...
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: soul seeker on December 12, 2012, 12:24:14 PM
Would Rob look at doing Pre-orders with possibly doing a tourney promo for those who pre-pay? That would be a way to get funds sooner...

I'm pretty sure that is what "Kickstarter" does, and so the answer to your question at this moment appears to be "no."
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: STAMP on December 12, 2012, 12:26:51 PM
Besides prayer, the best way to help Rob is to help clear out his old inventory by making purchases at cactusgamedesign.com.  :)
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: Chris on December 12, 2012, 12:28:50 PM
I know Rob considered the idea of using kickstarter to raise funds for the new starters and/or a larger release. But I haven't heard anything more than you guys. I'm still hopeful for a spring release.

Because of the extra time we've had, the starters are some of the most well developed cards I've seen since I started play testing. I've used them to teach over 16 new players this past fall. They are easily the best teaching tool I've seen. They're simple, yet powerful and fun to play. They include cards for all types of players, from newbies, to casual to advanced players. I'm really excited for them to become available to the Redemption community.

I hadn't considered Kickstarter, but that would be a good idea. Do you suppose there's any chance of having the cards on RTS once they're set to print?
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: Rawrlolsauce! on December 12, 2012, 12:51:22 PM
Rob could print a tournament legal goat card and offer it for a $250 pledge on Kickstarter. $40K overnight.
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: Gabe on December 12, 2012, 01:08:30 PM
I hadn't considered Kickstarter, but that would be a good idea. Do you suppose there's any chance of having the cards on RTS once they're set to print?

I have them on RTS already.  ::)

Releasing them to the public that way is entirely up to Rob. In the past he's denied those type of requests though. Still it never hurts to ask. When we reach that point I don't mind making the request.
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: Professoralstad on December 12, 2012, 04:59:08 PM
I know Rob considered the idea of using kickstarter to raise funds for the new starters and/or a larger release. But I haven't heard anything more than you guys. I'm still hopeful for a spring release.

Because of the extra time we've had, the starters are some of the most well developed cards I've seen since I started play testing. I've used them to teach over 16 new players this past fall. They are easily the best teaching tool I've seen. They're simple, yet powerful and fun to play. They include cards for all types of players, from newbies, to casual to advanced players. I'm really excited for them to become available to the Redemption community.

I echo this statement. Definitely the most fun starter deck games I've ever had.
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: sepjazzwarrior on December 12, 2012, 05:29:33 PM
so wait, the new cards are out on RTS? any way we can get a list of the new cards outside of RTS?
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: Isildur on December 12, 2012, 05:36:34 PM
so wait, the new cards are out on RTS? any way we can get a list of the new cards outside of RTS?
They arent out.... only the playtesters use the new cards on rts ;D
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: sepjazzwarrior on December 12, 2012, 05:50:42 PM
aw poo...any word on when we will get some articles on new cards???
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: JDS on December 12, 2012, 06:08:49 PM
If we can't get new cards, we need some rules changes to shake things up. I recommending banning all sets but Angel Wars: Dark Side of the Moon.
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: Master KChief on December 12, 2012, 06:28:14 PM
And Chris Bany's X-treme Pedestrian Safety. That expansion was legit.
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: New Raven BR on December 13, 2012, 09:58:35 PM
i wouldn't know i wasn't at nats last year and i may not ever go to a nationals cause that's tradition, raven never goes to nationals cause he has reasons for not going  :P
that wasd then and now, i went to nats in august!!  ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: drb1200 on December 15, 2012, 12:21:30 PM
Not sure if this is the most recent version, but here's a playtest card from earlier this yearjk

(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm9.staticflickr.com%2F8059%2F8275468264_bd974ff0ef.jpg&hash=38b5e33b4b4774b8bc96e64af3878bbfbcaa72ae)

(LOL at you guys -1'ing this :P)
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: Gabe on December 15, 2012, 12:58:19 PM
Nice mock up. But I can promise you that card is not in the starter, nor has any version of it been.
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: Isildur on December 15, 2012, 02:55:41 PM
You also used the wrong border type for Demons :p
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: drb1200 on December 15, 2012, 03:24:05 PM
Nice mock up. But I can promise you that card is not in the starter, nor has any version of it been.
thats why i put the "Jk"

I was decieved :X

You also used the wrong border type for Demons :p

ooo- look who knows so much about card design? Cactus didn't use those demon backgrounds last time I checked
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: STAMP on December 15, 2012, 04:05:06 PM
The clue I found that it was not genuine was a little more subtle.

;)
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: YourMathTeacher on December 15, 2012, 04:24:55 PM
The clue I found that it was not genuine was a little more subtle.

;)

Be gentil with him.   ;)
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: drb1200 on December 15, 2012, 04:31:09 PM
The clue I found that it was not genuine was a little more subtle.

;)

Be gentil with him.   ;)

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=genesis%203:1&version=KJV (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=genesis%203:1&version=KJV)

take it up with king james....haha
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: YourMathTeacher on December 15, 2012, 04:47:10 PM
take it up with king james....haha

I would, but he's been dead for 387 years. I'll ask him about it later, though, possibly in the next few weeks.  :o
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: Gabe on December 15, 2012, 08:26:24 PM
thats why i put the "Jk"

I was decieved :X

Sorry, bud, I still don't see the "Jk", but that second part is funny. :)

You also used the wrong border type for Demons :p

Actually PT cards have whatever border I feel like giving them since I'm the one who mocks them up. :P This looks very much like a PT card, except for that water mark.

Whether or not The Serpent should be a demon is very much open to debate, however for Redemption purposes it has already been debated and ruled that it is not a demon. It's considered an animal under demonic influence or possession. If we ever reprint it, I could easily see it being part orange like we did with Damsel in TeP.
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: wyatt_marcum on December 16, 2012, 10:07:26 AM
But it says in the 10th anniversary edition of the rule book that all beasts are demons. So if you say it is a beast, then it is automatically aq demon.
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on December 16, 2012, 10:13:39 AM
But it says in the 10th anniversary edition of the rule book that all beasts are demons. So if you say it is a beast, then it is automatically aq demon.

The pats version of The Serpent is an Animal, not a Beast.
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: wyatt_marcum on December 16, 2012, 10:22:18 AM
Are there any actual spoilers for the new set?
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: Bryon on December 16, 2012, 10:43:05 AM
Yes.  Each starter decks contains Son of God, Angel of the Lord, Christian Martyr, and 7 lost souls.

I just spoiled 20 cards in 1 sentence.
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: wyatt_marcum on December 16, 2012, 10:47:27 AM
How bout stuff we dont already know. LOL.
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: Bobbert on December 16, 2012, 04:30:54 PM
Yes.  Each starter decks contains Son of God, Angel of the Lord, Christian Martyr, and 7 lost souls.

I just spoiled 20 cards in 1 sentence.

Wait... so two CMs and no Burial?
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: Westok Kiok on December 16, 2012, 04:34:39 PM
Yes.  Each starter decks contains Son of God, Angel of the Lord, Christian Martyr, and 7 lost souls.

I just spoiled 20 cards in 1 sentence.

Wait... so two CMs and no Burial?

I was thinking the same thing. Are all of the souls generic?
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: browarod on December 16, 2012, 05:58:16 PM
Giving both of them CM rather than one CM and one Burial is more balanced. In all the starter deck games I've played Burial has rarely been useful whereas CM is often useful as banding chains are less prevalent in starter decks. So, I like that change.
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: Drrek on December 16, 2012, 08:04:34 PM
Giving both of them CM rather than one CM and one Burial is more balanced. In all the starter deck games I've played Burial has rarely been useful whereas CM is often useful as banding chains are less prevalent in starter decks. So, I like that change.

Ha, Burial is far superior in the current starters (and especially in sealed deck) because Soul Drought is so strong.  With Burial over CM, your opponent has to rescue all but one of the souls you have in your deck, CM only stops one rescue, and the soul will still be there on their next turn for them to rescue.
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: megamanlan on December 16, 2012, 08:28:38 PM
Giving both of them CM rather than one CM and one Burial is more balanced. In all the starter deck games I've played Burial has rarely been useful whereas CM is often useful as banding chains are less prevalent in starter decks. So, I like that change.

Or maybe there is going to be a totally new Dominant that both decks might get. Like what was suggested in earlier rumors.

...Bryon why'd you have to ruin the surprise? I didn't think they're actually be Lost Souls in the Deck!
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: Isildur on December 16, 2012, 09:25:54 PM
Ha, Burial is far superior in the current starters (and especially in sealed deck) because Soul Drought is so strong.  With Burial over CM, your opponent has to rescue all but one of the souls you have in your deck, CM only stops one rescue, and the soul will still be there on their next turn for them to rescue.
Not at all true in the short term yes this is true but you need to remember both of your decks are equally slow and there are guaranteed 5 souls for you to rescue. If your playing for the long term game CM is far superior since you can kill your opponents Ace hero and they have no way to get that hero back. When ever I played sealed I always dump my site and burial if I get the deck with Burial. Sure my short term game is hurt like I said earlier but it also means I can put in two more Evil cards which the current starter are REALLY lacking or two more Heroes. I won a nationals doing this! How else are you supposed to fit two Cups of Wrath in your deck ;D
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: Master KChief on December 16, 2012, 09:50:51 PM
Burial is nigh-useless in starter decks. CM is far superior.
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: Drrek on December 16, 2012, 09:54:15 PM
Ha, Burial is far superior in the current starters (and especially in sealed deck) because Soul Drought is so strong.  With Burial over CM, your opponent has to rescue all but one of the souls you have in your deck, CM only stops one rescue, and the soul will still be there on their next turn for them to rescue.
Not at all true in the short term yes this is true but you need to remember both of your decks are equally slow and there are guaranteed 5 souls for you to rescue. If your playing for the long term game CM is far superior since you can kill your opponents Ace hero and they have no way to get that hero back. When ever I played sealed I always dump my site and burial if I get the deck with Burial. Sure my short term game is hurt like I said earlier but it also means I can put in two more Evil cards which the current starter are REALLY lacking or two more Heroes. I won a nationals doing this! How else are you supposed to fit two Cups of Wrath in your deck ;D

You can't even get rid of the opponent's ace hero (at least not in the G/H starters), because midwives just bring Moses (because are you really going to argue anyone else is the ace hero of that deck) back anyway, and you can search out midwives with increasing numbers.  And the fact that both of the decks are equally slow is an advantage in favor of burial.  You are both going to take many turns to get out enough souls for the game to end, but the burial deck gets to get rid of one of those souls and often get extra turns of rescuing while having nothing to defend.

As an aside, if there is one thing I hope about the new starters, its that they would have some soul-gen in them, because nothing is more frustrating to me that soul drought in sealed.
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: Isildur on December 16, 2012, 10:44:07 PM
You can't even get rid of the opponent's ace hero (at least not in the G/H starters), because midwives just bring Moses (because are you really going to argue anyone else is the ace hero of that deck) back anyway, and you can search out midwives with increasing numbers.
This makes no sense if your using the H deck why wouldnt you just use CM on Midwives? You kill Moses with numbers.... really isnt that hard to do lol If your playing G deck against a G deck its even easier to stop Midwives and Moses. Its really just a giant game of Rock Paper Scissors with Starter Decks whoever knows cards in the starters and how to play them better will win guaranteed.
Title: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: jbeers285 on December 16, 2012, 11:17:52 PM
I tend to agree with Blake on this one


As a side note nothing in redemption is guaranteed
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: Master KChief on December 16, 2012, 11:18:49 PM
The only time Burial is anywhere near practical in starter deck games is early game and only 1 lost soul drawn. The odds of that happening coupled with the fact Burial gets more and more useless as the game progresses has always made the starter with CM far more powerful.
Title: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: jbeers285 on December 16, 2012, 11:22:43 PM
I think your missing the point that it takes 5 souls to win both decks have 7 to be drawn while the deck with burial can eliminate one of the one of those souls leaving only 6 that can possibly be rescued in the deck
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: Master KChief on December 16, 2012, 11:26:12 PM
Your point being what exactly? Stating the obvious? What you have said changes my point less than zero percent.
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: Minister Polarius on December 16, 2012, 11:31:33 PM
Your point would have been correct before the SoG targeting change, but Burial is at least on the same level as CM for sealed.
Title: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: jbeers285 on December 16, 2012, 11:32:25 PM
It means that I only have 6 available to you

Meaning that I have a smaller percentage chance of making 5 souls available to you through out the game.
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: Master KChief on December 16, 2012, 11:39:00 PM
Unless it is possible to make only 4 available, 1 less marks no consequential difference besides, as already stated, in the early game and if you are able to satisfy the condition of not drawing more than 1 lost soul. Even then you're only delaying the inevitable, wheras CM is a definitive answer to any ace hero. Burial's viability mid to late game is non-existent. CM, on the other hand, is always live.
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: Isildur on December 17, 2012, 12:19:51 AM
Unless it is possible to make only 4 available, 1 less marks no consequential difference besides, as already stated, in the early game and if you are able to satisfy the condition of not drawing more than 1 lost soul. Even then you're only delaying the inevitable, wheras CM is a definitive answer to any ace hero. Burial's viability mid to late game is non-existent. CM, on the other hand, is always live.
I think what most players are not getting is that there is almost no extra drawing in the starters. With no extra drawing you NEED to plan for the long term game because chances are your opponent has all of their souls stacked at the bottom of their deck and you have to wait while they slowly only 3 cards per turn till they finally get a soul. And in the long term since there are a guaranteed 5 souls to rescue (this is counting Burial and SOG) whats the point in having Burial?
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: Drrek on December 17, 2012, 12:43:54 AM
Unless it is possible to make only 4 available, 1 less marks no consequential difference besides, as already stated, in the early game and if you are able to satisfy the condition of not drawing more than 1 lost soul. Even then you're only delaying the inevitable, wheras CM is a definitive answer to any ace hero. Burial's viability mid to late game is non-existent. CM, on the other hand, is always live.
I think what most players are not getting is that there is almost no extra drawing in the starters. With no extra drawing you NEED to plan for the long term game because chances are your opponent has all of their souls stacked at the bottom of their deck and you have to wait while they slowly only 3 cards per turn till they finally get a soul. And in the long term since there are a guaranteed 5 souls to rescue (this is counting Burial and SOG) whats the point in having Burial?

because if they have to wait longer for those 5 souls to be able to be rescued, you have a distinct advantage over them.
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: Gabe on December 17, 2012, 12:44:47 AM
In my experience with G/H, the player who draws their Lost Souls first usually loses. Whether or not CM is better than Burial is obviously debatable, but Burial does have good value.

The new starter decks are supposed to be the best teaching tool the game has seen and give new players a good first impression. As someone previously mentioned, Lost Soul drought is not fun. We've made considerable effort to ensure that is rarely an issue.
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: wyatt_marcum on December 17, 2012, 12:47:47 AM
News of a change!!!
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: cookie monster on December 17, 2012, 02:12:24 PM
Are there any real spoilers (ones that include the special ability) that you can give us?
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: Warrior_Monk on December 17, 2012, 02:13:59 PM
Are there any real spoilers (ones that include the special ability) that you can give us?
Considering the set hasn't gone to print yet, everything is subject to change.

Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: wyatt_marcum on December 17, 2012, 02:27:11 PM
`I've heard that most of the stuff is pretty much et though. They are tweaking a few still I thnk, but it isnt supposed to be anythng major.
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: Chris on December 17, 2012, 03:16:41 PM
Son of God is confirmed to negate the ability of the soul it rescues, allowing it to rescue the NT and */4 Lost Souls.
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: wyatt_marcum on December 17, 2012, 03:19:57 PM
what?
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: cookie monster on December 17, 2012, 04:37:46 PM
That should be fun. People will more compelled to play with defense because they can no longer protect lost souls from SoG.
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: Iamalittleking on December 17, 2012, 04:51:14 PM
i hope it it make for more defense though i suspect it's not going to change a thing.   :-\
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: sepjazzwarrior on December 17, 2012, 05:46:58 PM
it also makes the most printed card in the game totally worthless...
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: jbeers285 on December 17, 2012, 05:48:07 PM
unless the new sog can not be used with NJ . . . then the old sog's still have value in that sense
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: Master Q on December 17, 2012, 08:05:01 PM
I'm just glad both decks finally have an answer to AotL. I've usually preferred the deck with CM just for that reason. Usually if people draw souls in Sealed it's more than one, so as said, Burial is less useful (unless you draft off-color sites), especially now that you can't rescue your own w/ SoG. Maybe both decks will include a soul that searches the opponent's deck for a soul. That would be great...
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: YourMathTeacher on December 17, 2012, 08:24:05 PM
it also makes the most printed card in the game totally worthless...

Nope.... Buckler is still just as useful.  ;)
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: STAMP on December 18, 2012, 11:49:31 AM
it also makes the most printed card in the game totally worthless...

Nope.... Buckler is still just as useful.  ;)

Some might say more useful.  ;D
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: KingLeo on December 19, 2012, 04:32:53 PM
Lets make a buckler dominant in the new decks (this is just a joke)

good and evil dom.

if owner used the original buckler last nationals he wins 2013 nationals.

KingLeo 8)
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: Gabe on December 24, 2012, 01:53:05 PM
As a holiday gift, I'll give you a clue - maybe two. More than one correct answer is possibly true.

An out of print staple will see print once more and a three version Hero is soon to be four.

Merry Christmas Redemption fans!
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: KingLeo on December 24, 2012, 02:49:38 PM
As a holiday gift, I'll give you a clue - maybe two. More than one correct answer is possibly true.

An out of print staple will see print once more and a three version Hero is soon to be four.

Merry Christmas Redemption fans!

Question. Are you going to remake Soldier of God and all the characters he bands to???? (That'd be EPIC but I doubt it)
Thanks for the present of spoiler!

KingLeo 8)
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: wyatt_marcum on December 25, 2012, 03:25:06 PM
Thanks Gabe.
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on December 25, 2012, 05:07:54 PM
and a three version Hero is soon to be four.

Could it possibly be....

(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi189.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz18%2FLambo_Diablo_Svtt%2FMark.jpg&hash=6eb0edf6565aeed46728e4e18c8769109d5959b7)
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: wyatt_marcum on December 25, 2012, 05:27:54 PM
Mr.Underwood would like that. LOL
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: cookie monster on December 26, 2012, 02:16:58 PM
I hope they reprint that card
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: Lampy 2.0 on December 26, 2012, 05:04:55 PM
Is it David possibly? Or Jonathan? I know he wasn't hinted at, but I hope we get a new Gideon in the starter.
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: wyatt_marcum on December 26, 2012, 06:32:46 PM
we dont need any new stuff for sam decks. they are fine as is.
Title: Re: any word on the I/J starter decks?
Post by: Prof Underwood on December 26, 2012, 07:55:51 PM
Mr.Underwood would like that. LOL
I would SUPER love to be able to play a deck that actually had a useful Mark in it!  Now whether that will happen in this set of cards or the next one is a good question :)
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