Cactus Game Design Message Boards

I added a poll to the top to help Rob gage the feedback on the 3 options he gave.

I am curious if rob would consider the 4th idea I presented or the 5th idea JohnathanW presented. Perhaps we could give him a chance to respond to those ideas prior to a vote taking place.

Quote from: Gabe on August 14, 2017, 07:01:32 PM

I added a poll to the top to help Rob gage the feedback on the 3 options he gave.

I am curious if rob would consider the 4th idea I presented. Perhaps we could give him a chance to respond to that idea prior to a vote taking place.

Yeah, I like that idea as well...offer them.  BUT offer them the following year so that the NAT AB cards have a chance to circulate.

Definitely think the one box limit is a good idea. I will also say that the use of "Ringers" to purchase beyond the box limit at Nationals leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Haven't read every post in detail yet. If someone will summarize options #4 & #5 I'll add them to the poll.

Option 6 - 25% senior discount for all AB cards for players over 60.   

When is Rob going to decide on what option he is going to take?

Option 6 - 25% senior discount for all AB cards for players over 60.   

When is Rob going to decide on what option he is going to take?

 

Quote from: Gabe on August 14, 2017, 10:40:28 PM

I added options 4 and 5 tonthe poll. I imagine option 5 is a lot more work for Cactus and doubt that it's realistic though.

Is there a way to reset a vote?

There is a remove vote button.

Quote from: Gabe on August 14, 2017, 07:01:32 PM

I added a poll to the top to help Rob gage the feedback on the 3 options he gave.

I am curious if rob would consider the 4th idea I presented or the 5th idea JohnathanW presented. Perhaps we could give him a chance to respond to those ideas prior to a vote taking place.

I don't think we should even be voting on this at this point. The conversation has really just started and I think we're throwing a lot of good observations and ideas out there. I know the intent of the poll isn't to make a decision on the spot, but I'd hate to see this whole discussion shut down by the results of a poll that's supposed to be used to "gauge feedback" I get the feeling that this poll will only cause a mob mentality....

Quote from: jbeers285 on August 14, 2017, 07:03:18 PM

Quote from: Gabe on August 14, 2017, 07:01:32 PM

I added a poll to the top to help Rob gage the feedback on the 3 options he gave.

I am curious if rob would consider the 4th idea I presented or the 5th idea JohnathanW presented. Perhaps we could give him a chance to respond to those ideas prior to a vote taking place.

I don't think we should even be voting on this at this point. The conversation has really just started and I think we're throwing a lot of good observations and ideas out there. I know the intent of the poll isn't to make a decision on the spot, but I'd hate to see this whole discussion shut down by the results of a poll that's supposed to be used to "gauge feedback" I get the feeling that this poll will only cause a mob mentality....

In addition to these points, the poll will be skewed towards the first 3 answers because many people won't bother to come back later and revote on the new options even if they would have preferred them. Case in point, at this time, more people have upvoted my comment about mixing them into regular packs than have voted on the poll for mixing them into regular packs.

First, I'd like to thank everyone for all the valuable input and constructive discussion thus far.

I realized that I may not have been totally clear on my reason for writing this and what prompted me to say what I said.

My main concern isn't necessarily the value of my "investment". My main concern is that by printing more AB cards from sets that were said to be "only at nationals" it sets the precedent that what was promised, in the case of CoW AB over a year ago, can be overturned at a later date based purely on popular opinion and gut feelings.

Now, that's not to say that Rob doesn't want what's best for the community and what's best for the growth of the game as a whole. I am 100% sure that Rob wants to take the course of action that is the most conducive to growing and strengthening Redemption and its community. I am merely asking the question, "At what cost?".

I would rather see the distribution of AB cards for years to come be modified in such a way that they are more accessible to the majority of the community than for the promises concerning these first two AB sets to be made void because of popular pressure.

This situation is very reminiscent of what happened at nationals this year when we "voted" to do 8 rounds of swiss instead of top cut. There were literally 5 months leading up to nationals when everyone knew that there would be a top 4 top cut. Now, in my opinion, top 8 is far superior and would have been preferred, but, nonetheless, top 4 was announced, and I built my deck and practiced accordingly. Then, the day of T1-2P, there was a "vote" to determine whether or not we do top cut.

I didn't say anything at the time, but this was very disheartening to me and has left a bad taste in my mouth for "votes" concerning policies and promises. Not only were people forced to play an extra round of swiss compared to one less with top cut, but the community also missed out on at least 4, potentially 6, recordings of game play at the highest level Redemption has to offer. Not only did the people who would not have made top cut have to play for an additional round, they also, myself included, did not even get to watch and fellowship around the games that were televised. That saddens me.

Now, maybe I'm just too trusting. That's likely the case. But part of being trusting means that I am sensitive when my trust is violated. It saddens me to see others lose their integrity because of popular demand.

I did not intend for this to turn into a vote. There has been less than 12 hours of discussion concerning a topic that will influence the form Redemption takes both as a game and as a community for years to come.

I believe that the moral thing to do is abide by what was agreed for last year and this year prior to nationals concerning the availability of AB cards, but also change the distribution method going forward, in a transparent and concise manner, to make future AB sets more available to the community both for the enjoyment and expansion of the game and its community. Popular opinion doesn't decide what's moral. That's moral relativism.

This is my conviction.

I'm not as upset about this as I would have been last year. Last year I bought A LOT of AB CoW. This year, I bought the limit for AB RoJ, pulled a Three Woes and I was done. I was ready to spend more money to get one, but once I pulled that card I was done purchasing.

I think what gets to me is that the packs were said to be "only at nationals" and now they are now being offered elsewhere. If it was stated before hand that this would happen (which is a fair idea for the future, if you ask me) then it would not concern me as much. I think it just really caught a lot of people by surprise.

I think it was great that they sold out, and that the cards look amazing and if I could, I would get everyone a copy of a few cards. I am aware of (I won't name anyone) that quite a few people were paying others to go and buy additional boxes so they could get more than the limit, but that is a separate issue.

I think Rob has the right to offer the AB cards now for other people, but I would just ask for a heads up in the future. I can't imagine that it would overflood the market with ABs, but again, I understand that some people use their ABs to help fund travel and expenses.

I'd like to add that I feel like the outcry of how AB cards received at Nationals will be devalued is greatly over exaggerated. The value may be impacted a little, long term, but it's not like the marked is going to be suddenly flooded with AB cards.

Most of us are Americans, and whether or not we like to admit it are part of the "gotta have it now, fast food, microwave" culture that does not wait if it doesn't have to. For that reason alone most people aren't going to wait until Christmas to get something they want and can have now. The point being that if your goal was to buy AB RoJ at Nationals and resell them afterwards, the limited release taking place in a few months doesn't really hurt you all that much. If you're having trouble selling AB RoJ there are probably other factors involved (like too many people with the same idea).

Rob did increase this year's supply by a bit, obviously he couldn't anticipate the huge increase in demand.

Just to be clear, the RoJ packs we made to sell and award as prizes at Nationals this year was slightly less than CoW sold at Nationals in 2016 (about 15% less).  However, more RoJ UR's were distributed as prizes than CoW UR's in 2016.  I.E. there are currently fewer AB RoJ commons and rares than AB CoW commons and rares.  But, there are more RoJ UR's than CoW UR's.  Does that sound correct to you Gabe? (Gabe helped a great deal in arranging the prizes in 2016 and 2017).

Regarding options:
I don't like jacking up the price on the packs past $5.00 and regret even suggesting it. 

I also don't like the idea of trying to mix alternate border cards in with regular border cards. 

What I think strikes a reasonably good balance is a one time offer (for two weeks only) 2nd chance at the CoW cards this year and (depending on how it goes) offering a second chance at the AB RoJ cards in 2018.  I will also know months in advance of Nationals 2018 if the model is working and let people know before they make travel plans if the cards released in 2018 will likely be made available again in 2019.

Additional discussion invited.