Cactus Game Design Message Boards

To me it sounds like you people have next to no idea how this game's engine works. if you make a d1 rule it screws it over.  If you make a deckout rule you risk losing players. TBH the rules are fine and anyone who wants it changed needs to just forget it.

 To the playtesters: If you want a slower game make defense stronger and up the time limit. And quit trying to screw the rules engine over.

I'm tired of being nice. And getting ignored. And do you even know how long I've been playing?

I'm just frustrated to the point to where I almost just don't care what people think anymore. Everyone wants it to change but I just want the rules to be the same. I like the rules and don't understand why people want to turn this game into a MTG clone with about 7 rule differences tops. I like it's freedom of deckbuilding and such and don't understand why other people dislike it. To me this season has the most playable decks yet and everyone wants to shift it to a way where the game is slowed down to the point of being luck based with rules like d1 card per turn. The d3 rule makes it where you go though your deck faster and decreases luck which people do not seem to understand.... this is my thoughts on this issue.

It's totally an MTG clone...in that they are both CCGs.

There are a few people that have said that D1 would make the game slower. I disagree. It would make the game faster.

Think about it. Instead of players spending a large amount of time on there every turn (which many do), you give them less options to use. They could just do 1 or 2 things, perhaps make a rescue attempt, and then be done. Not so much activating new artifacts every turn and playing charachters and always making rescue attempts, but keeping the pace of the game running smoother. I do believe this hurts speed a little bit, but i dont think we need to make any silly rules about if an opponent draws then you draw... Thats like noone drawing at all! Things like Gifts and RBD would be used in almost every deck, sure, but at least this will hurt speed greatly, and not be too hurtful to other playing styles.

If just making it D1 every turn doesnt fix it, i have absolutely no clue what will.

i dont like FPS's can I have a gun blade instead?

I'm actually in support of a few changes such as no doms in the first round but the more drastic you go the more it changes how I play the game and I have played the game in the same style with dominants drawing etc. that it gets to where it feels like a whole new game and that is just something I don't want. My life has changed so much in the past year but this game is something that hasn't changed too drastically, and I don't want it to change too drastically like some people are proposing.

What if the only thing that changed was instead of D3.. D1.

Too drastic?

There are a few people that have said that D1 would make the game slower. I disagree. It would make the game faster.

Think about it. Instead of players spending a large amount of time on there every turn (which many do), you give them less options to use. They could just do 1 or 2 things, perhaps make a rescue attempt, and then be done. Not so much activating new artifacts every turn and playing charachters and always making rescue attempts, but keeping the pace of the game running smoother. I do believe this hurts speed a little bit, but i dont think we need to make any silly rules about if an opponent draws then you draw... Thats like noone drawing at all! Things like Gifts and RBD would be used in almost every deck, sure, but at least this will hurt speed greatly, and not be too hurtful to other playing styles.

If just making it D1 every turn doesnt fix it, i have absolutely no clue what will.

I think you might be a bit confused, unless I'm misreading what you're saying. When people talk about speed, we're not referring to the actual time it takes to play a game. Rather, we're talking about how many cards are being taken  out of a deck (not including discards) over the course of X amount of turns.

I'm actually in support of a few changes such as no doms in the first round but the more drastic you go the more it changes how I play the game and I have played the game in the same style with dominants drawing etc. that it gets to where it feels like a whole new game and that is just something I don't want. My life has changed so much in the past year but this game is something that hasn't changed too drastically, and I don't want it to change too drastically like some people are proposing.

The problem is that's not a good argument. "I don't want the game to change because I don't want it to" simply isn't a strong argument when you have more people saying "I do want the game to change because I want it to".

I understand, I'm saying its like killing two stones with one bird. Make the game smoother and drastically hurt Speed.

Quote from: SomeKittens on December 28, 2011, 05:04:34 PM

Quote from: STAMP on December 28, 2011, 04:55:19 PM

LOL, well if you all read my post thoroughly you'll notice I was brainstorming and throwing out an idea to build from.

Of course, as is the case with these boards, you all took out your first-person-shooter-weapon-of-choice and put a flurry of holes in it.



At least Underwood understood. 

Tac Nuke.  Who needs to aim?  Seriously, I do appreciate the brainstorm, but that particular idea doesn't hold water in my opinion.

Point taken.  Something full of holes indeed doesn't hold water.

But the fact remains: what's the one thing that will make any player want to stop drawing?  It's when you're opponent is drawing just as fast as you are.

There are probably several ways to achieve the end result, notwithstanding my bullet-laden proposition. 

I disagree.

The object is not to MAKE people to not want to draw cards...

Its to make drawing cards not so effective.

I disagree.

The object is not to MAKE people to not want to draw cards...

Its to make drawing cards not so effective.

Easy.  Cards drawn due to a special ability gain the ability of NOT being able to activate their special ability.

{Waves defribillator paddles in the air} That'll kill it. 

Quote from: I am Knot a Blonde! on December 28, 2011, 05:12:03 PM

I disagree.

The object is not to MAKE people to not want to draw cards...

Its to make drawing cards not so effective.

Easy.  Cards drawn due to a special ability gain the ability of NOT being able to activate their special ability.

{Waves defribillator paddles in the air} That'll kill it. 

Agreed.
Whats so bad about losing if you deck out?

I'm sure the idea has had to have been brought up before.

The issue with the "Gifts of the Magi" rule is that is that it reduces the game to who gets their best cards first. Making the game faster in anyway is NOT the answer to the problem. If the rule proposed can in any way help you draw cards, it will NOT work. That's like printing more money to solve Inflation (it doesn't work, for those who don't know anything about Economics).

I still maintain that the biggest issue with speed is based on the fact that Characters are so much more important than any other card type. Because you NEED characters, you have to have speed elements to draw characters. It's the most efficient way to reduce the luck of the draw. Additionally, because you NEED characters, you tend to push as many characters into your deck as you can. This leads to the rampant use of unsupported Characters, making cards such as Gomer/Uzzah/FBTNCharacters, etc much more widely used than would normally be expected. This has been a problem since Tim Maly first constructed his CBN (or whatever you want to call it) deck. Read his comments about it on his website. They are telling about how important characters are in this game.

Combined with the lack of any sort of power check on characters, we are at a point in the game where we can go a couple different ways. I think we should enact this rule:

"A hero may not start a rescue attempt unless he/she was in play at the end of the owner's previous turn."

This rule helps combat speed in a number of ways:
1. First Turn superheroes like Strong Angel get a nerfing. No more 3 walk in rescues, SoG, NJ.
2. Pentecost and First Fruits begin to have actual costs when played at the end of your turn. No more "free" drawing.
3. Evil is left intact and able to block at any point.
4. Banding to heroes in hand or deck is still doable.

I think this rule would solve a lot of the 5 minute games that are most commonly complained about while not totally ruining other important aspects of the game. It would increase strategy by forcing attackers to plan ahead, but also give defenders a little hint on what might be coming at them in the future.