Author Topic: Revelation of John - Set List and Information  (Read 97999 times)

Offline The Guardian

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Re: Revelation of John - Set List and Information
« Reply #625 on: April 12, 2017, 06:07:11 PM »
+1
For one to give some variety to his character (much like Strong Angel being bumped to 12/8) but I think the main reason was that if nothing else was played, he would defeat the Red Dragon straight up (as opposed to a mutual destruction).
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Offline Kor

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Re: Revelation of John - Set List and Information
« Reply #626 on: April 12, 2017, 06:34:03 PM »
0
Some thoughts:

Quote
Micheal is good, I'm not sure if he's "Enhancements played by Micheal cannot be negated" good, but if I had a way to easily swap between the two of them, I'd consider running both of them.

I agree with this.

Red Dragon is okay, but absolutely insane for draft.  I'm glad it is an UR just so I won't have to run into it often there.  If an orange ITB play next weapon is ever made, this card will be great in regular play also, but that has less to do with the ability and more to do with Worshiping Demons and Dragon's Wrath.

Covenant of Prayer should be good, definitely will make players think twice before banishing used dominants in discard piles.  Makes a lot of the 'remove entire discard pile' cards pretty much unplayable.  Add to that the new cards to get around Hezekiah's Signet Ring, and it looks like recursion will be getting a decent boost this year.

Oh, and I look forward to abusing Disciples of the Lamb to go from 0 to 7 rescued lost souls in a turn.  Might not be practical, but we'll see.  Should be fun (if not interactive) regardless  :)


 



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Offline Watchman

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Re: Revelation of John - Set List and Information
« Reply #627 on: April 12, 2017, 06:39:10 PM »
0
Some thoughts:

Quote
Micheal is good, I'm not sure if he's "Enhancements played by Micheal cannot be negated" good, but if I had a way to easily swap between the two of them, I'd consider running both of them.

I agree with this.

Red Dragon is okay, but absolutely insane for draft.  I'm glad it is an UR just so I won't have to run into it often there.  If an orange ITB play next weapon is ever made, this card will be great in regular play also, but that has less to do with the ability and more to do with Worshiping Demons and Dragon's Wrath.

Covenant of Prayer should be good, definitely will make players think twice before banishing used dominants in discard piles.  Makes a lot of the 'remove entire discard pile' cards pretty much unplayable.  Add to that the new cards to get around Hezekiah's Signet Ring, and it looks like recursion will be getting a decent boost this year.

Oh, and I look forward to abusing Disciples of the Lamb to go from 0 to 7 rescued lost souls in a turn.  Might not be practical, but we'll see.  Should be fun (if not interactive) regardless  :)

As strong as Abbadon and Red Dragon are, they still can't do anything about Three Nails (which will definitely be in most decks upon RoJ's release), unless of course there's an artifact negator/killer.
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Offline Red Dragon Thorn

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Re: Revelation of John - Set List and Information
« Reply #628 on: April 12, 2017, 06:45:43 PM »
+1
Some thoughts:

Quote
Micheal is good, I'm not sure if he's "Enhancements played by Micheal cannot be negated" good, but if I had a way to easily swap between the two of them, I'd consider running both of them.

I agree with this.

Red Dragon is okay, but absolutely insane for draft.  I'm glad it is an UR just so I won't have to run into it often there.  If an orange ITB play next weapon is ever made, this card will be great in regular play also, but that has less to do with the ability and more to do with Worshiping Demons and Dragon's Wrath.

Covenant of Prayer should be good, definitely will make players think twice before banishing used dominants in discard piles.  Makes a lot of the 'remove entire discard pile' cards pretty much unplayable.  Add to that the new cards to get around Hezekiah's Signet Ring, and it looks like recursion will be getting a decent boost this year.

Oh, and I look forward to abusing Disciples of the Lamb to go from 0 to 7 rescued lost souls in a turn.  Might not be practical, but we'll see.  Should be fun (if not interactive) regardless  :)

As strong as Abbadon and Red Dragon are, they still can't do anything about Three Nails (which will definitely be in most decks upon RoJ's release), unless of course there's an artifact negator/killer.

Three Woes is a thing now 😉
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Offline Kor

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Re: Revelation of John - Set List and Information
« Reply #629 on: April 12, 2017, 06:54:11 PM »
0
Some thoughts:

Quote
Micheal is good, I'm not sure if he's "Enhancements played by Micheal cannot be negated" good, but if I had a way to easily swap between the two of them, I'd consider running both of them.

I agree with this.

Red Dragon is okay, but absolutely insane for draft.  I'm glad it is an UR just so I won't have to run into it often there.  If an orange ITB play next weapon is ever made, this card will be great in regular play also, but that has less to do with the ability and more to do with Worshiping Demons and Dragon's Wrath.

Covenant of Prayer should be good, definitely will make players think twice before banishing used dominants in discard piles.  Makes a lot of the 'remove entire discard pile' cards pretty much unplayable.  Add to that the new cards to get around Hezekiah's Signet Ring, and it looks like recursion will be getting a decent boost this year.

Oh, and I look forward to abusing Disciples of the Lamb to go from 0 to 7 rescued lost souls in a turn.  Might not be practical, but we'll see.  Should be fun (if not interactive) regardless  :)

As strong as Abbadon and Red Dragon are, they still can't do anything about Three Nails (which will definitely be in most decks upon RoJ's release), unless of course there's an artifact negator/killer.

Three Woes is a thing now 😉

Seven Sons of Sceva is also a thing.  And if three nails actually starts being used a lot, orange decks will play SSoS again.
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Offline Watchman

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Re: Revelation of John - Set List and Information
« Reply #630 on: April 12, 2017, 07:01:03 PM »
0
Some thoughts:

Quote
Micheal is good, I'm not sure if he's "Enhancements played by Micheal cannot be negated" good, but if I had a way to easily swap between the two of them, I'd consider running both of them.

I agree with this.

Red Dragon is okay, but absolutely insane for draft.  I'm glad it is an UR just so I won't have to run into it often there.  If an orange ITB play next weapon is ever made, this card will be great in regular play also, but that has less to do with the ability and more to do with Worshiping Demons and Dragon's Wrath.

Covenant of Prayer should be good, definitely will make players think twice before banishing used dominants in discard piles.  Makes a lot of the 'remove entire discard pile' cards pretty much unplayable.  Add to that the new cards to get around Hezekiah's Signet Ring, and it looks like recursion will be getting a decent boost this year.

Oh, and I look forward to abusing Disciples of the Lamb to go from 0 to 7 rescued lost souls in a turn.  Might not be practical, but we'll see.  Should be fun (if not interactive) regardless  :)

As strong as Abbadon and Red Dragon are, they still can't do anything about Three Nails (which will definitely be in most decks upon RoJ's release), unless of course there's an artifact negator/killer.

Three Woes is a thing now 😉

But Three Woes can't target neutral cards, only those of opposite alignment.
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Offline Kor

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Re: Revelation of John - Set List and Information
« Reply #631 on: April 12, 2017, 07:13:21 PM »
0
Some thoughts:

Quote
Micheal is good, I'm not sure if he's "Enhancements played by Micheal cannot be negated" good, but if I had a way to easily swap between the two of them, I'd consider running both of them.

I agree with this.

Red Dragon is okay, but absolutely insane for draft.  I'm glad it is an UR just so I won't have to run into it often there.  If an orange ITB play next weapon is ever made, this card will be great in regular play also, but that has less to do with the ability and more to do with Worshiping Demons and Dragon's Wrath.

Covenant of Prayer should be good, definitely will make players think twice before banishing used dominants in discard piles.  Makes a lot of the 'remove entire discard pile' cards pretty much unplayable.  Add to that the new cards to get around Hezekiah's Signet Ring, and it looks like recursion will be getting a decent boost this year.

Oh, and I look forward to abusing Disciples of the Lamb to go from 0 to 7 rescued lost souls in a turn.  Might not be practical, but we'll see.  Should be fun (if not interactive) regardless  :)

As strong as Abbadon and Red Dragon are, they still can't do anything about Three Nails (which will definitely be in most decks upon RoJ's release), unless of course there's an artifact negator/killer.

Three Woes is a thing now 😉

But Three Woes can't target neutral cards, only those of opposite alignment.

It can target cards of a different alignment.  So it can always target neutral cards.
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Offline Gabe

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Re: Revelation of John - Set List and Information
« Reply #632 on: April 12, 2017, 07:13:33 PM »
0
But Three Woes can't target neutral cards, only those of opposite alignment.

Three Woes says "Place in territory: Negate a card of a different alignment than this card for one round. Each upkeep, you may negate a card of a different alignment than this card for one round."

Different alignment is not the same as opposite alignment. Different means neutral + either evil or good depending on how you played Three Woes. It will ALWAYS target neutral cards.

Three Woes just got a whole lot better huh? ;)
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Offline spacy32

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Re: Revelation of John - Set List and Information
« Reply #633 on: April 12, 2017, 07:23:27 PM »
0
I dunno... Kings Michael is my pride and joy.  He's just about my favorite card in the game. I ran him for so so long in a mono-Silver offense. Making your Enhancements CBN is an unbelievably hard act to follow.
I throw Angel's Sword and Wheel Within a Wheel on him, and now he's 15/10, has Site Access, is protected from my opponent's Evil Dominants, has special initiative against Humans, and all of that AND all of his Enhancements are ALL CBN. Once I got that set up, the game almost always fell right into my hands.
I can't do that with this Michael. Yeah, he can't be negated, but where are my beautiful CBN Enhancements?

I get the CBN enhancements thing, but consider the following:

If we made his ability just "CBN enhancements" again, wouldn't that be kinda boring? What would be the point of printing such a card when we already have 3 versions that do that, two of which are Revelation (one of which has WC and the other has the sweet artwork)?

If we made his ability "CBN enhancements" plus something else, then he pretty much makes all the other versions obsolete (with the one exception being the Kings version to use in a Daniel-based deck).

Neither of those options sounded very enticing, so we went a completely different direction. I honestly think that we now have 4 legit options (yes, even the Warriors version) depending on the type of offense you build, but I'm interested to hear what direction you would have taken with a new Michael.

I would have made him 2 color like red and silver and kept the CBN ability so he could use even more enhancements.

Also card number 39 war in heaven is not opening
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Offline Watchman

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Re: Revelation of John - Set List and Information
« Reply #634 on: April 12, 2017, 07:31:21 PM »
+1
But Three Woes can't target neutral cards, only those of opposite alignment.

Three Woes says "Place in territory: Negate a card of a different alignment than this card for one round. Each upkeep, you may negate a card of a different alignment than this card for one round."

Different alignment is not the same as opposite alignment. Different means neutral + either evil or good depending on how you played Three Woes. It will ALWAYS target neutral cards.

Three Woes just got a whole lot better huh? ;)

WOE! I definitely didn't realize that!  I always thought of different alignment as good and evil (as with DAEs).  I never thought of neutral card as a different alignment when compared to good and evil cards.  And yes, Three Woes definitely got a whole lot better!

Update:  And I just realized that it is worded as different alignment and not opposite alignment, even when I wrote that reply a few seconds ago (I didn't fully comprehend what you wrote, Gabe).  Ok so to be clear, opposite alignment only refers to good and evil cards, correct? 
« Last Edit: April 12, 2017, 07:36:25 PM by Watchman492 »
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Offline Watchman

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Re: Revelation of John - Set List and Information
« Reply #635 on: April 12, 2017, 07:38:07 PM »
0
I think it would be easier to include Sword of the Spirit instead of Three Nails just because you are wasting a deck slot in case you play against Demons. Sword of the Spirit can target a wide variety of cards and can still do significant damage. There is also Golden Censor and Mark of the Beast which can get the job done as well. Three Nails might work if it was in the reserve they are just not too many cards that can get it out of their when you need it that I can think of.

That's the great thing about the reserve, for such a card as Three Nails in the event your opponent is not running a demon defense.  And yes, I agree, SotS is definitely a must-have card against demon defense, or a wide variety of any kind of multi-brigade defense.
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Offline Kevinthedude

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Re: Revelation of John - Set List and Information
« Reply #636 on: April 12, 2017, 07:47:20 PM »
0
Covenant of Prayer should be in almost every deck and Three Nails is likely going to be one of the hard counters put reserve to get with it.

Offline Gabe

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Re: Revelation of John - Set List and Information
« Reply #637 on: April 12, 2017, 07:52:55 PM »
+7
The players have spoken and we've listened! We attempted to update Michael in a way that incorporates what everyone wants into one amazing card. Feast your eyes on...

Spoiler (hover to show)
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Offline Kor

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Re: Revelation of John - Set List and Information
« Reply #638 on: April 12, 2017, 07:55:11 PM »
+4
The players have spoken and we've listened! We attempted to update Michael in a way that incorporates what everyone wants into one amazing card. Feast your eyes on...

Spoiler (hover to show)

So he's no longer protected from demons? I'm disappointed.
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Re: Revelation of John - Set List and Information
« Reply #639 on: April 12, 2017, 07:56:44 PM »
0
Also card number 39 war in heaven is not opening
This has been corrected.

Offline Watchman

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Re: Revelation of John - Set List and Information
« Reply #640 on: April 12, 2017, 07:57:08 PM »
+1
The players have spoken and we've listened! We attempted to update Michael in a way that incorporates what everyone wants into one amazing card. Feast your eyes on...

Spoiler (hover to show)

Buwahaha!!  This Bud's for you, SignoftheStar!!
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Re: Revelation of John - Set List and Information
« Reply #641 on: April 12, 2017, 07:57:50 PM »
+1
The players have spoken and we've listened! We attempted to update Michael in a way that incorporates what everyone wants into one amazing card. Feast your eyes on...

Spoiler (hover to show)

So he's no longer protected from demons? I'm disappointed.

*applause* for this comment.
-Zach
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kariusvega

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Re: Revelation of John - Set List and Information
« Reply #642 on: April 12, 2017, 07:59:39 PM »
0
loving the dual reference  8)

Offline Watchman

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Re: Revelation of John - Set List and Information
« Reply #643 on: April 12, 2017, 08:14:52 PM »
+4
I'm loving the new expansion.  The elder team and play testers have done a fantastic job with it, so thank you!!  There are so many great cards that I am very much looking forward to using.

I was a bit disappointed, though, not seeing an updated Leviathan in the mini Job theme.  I thought for sure Lev. would have been among the Job cards, especially with animal defenses being on the rise.  Was there any particular reason why it was not chosen to be one of the Job cards?

Thanks again to the elder team and play testers for the countless VOLUNTEER hours spent on creating and testing this expansion!
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Offline Gabe

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Re: Revelation of John - Set List and Information
« Reply #644 on: April 12, 2017, 08:21:53 PM »
+3
I'm sure we will get an awesome Leviathan reprint some day. At the present the old Ap UR is still a very playable card in both animal and mixed crimson defenses.

When we were adding cards for the mini-theme Job defense we had room for one huge animal. We felt adding a new animal, particularly one that players have asked for, was a better choice than reprinting one that was already seeing play.
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Offline Kevinthedude

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Re: Revelation of John - Set List and Information
« Reply #645 on: April 12, 2017, 09:06:12 PM »
+4
The players have spoken and we've listened! We attempted to update Michael in a way that incorporates what everyone wants into one amazing card. Feast your eyes on...

Spoiler (hover to show)

I'm a bit confused as to how we are defining really really want to. I look forward to an extensive REG entry.

Offline The Guardian

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Re: Revelation of John - Set List and Information
« Reply #646 on: April 12, 2017, 09:52:34 PM »
+2
Tournament judges discretion how much "want to" you are displaying.  :police:
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Offline Watchman

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Re: Revelation of John - Set List and Information
« Reply #647 on: April 12, 2017, 09:54:51 PM »
0
I'm sure we will get an awesome Leviathan reprint some day. At the present the old Ap UR is still a very playable card in both animal and mixed crimson defenses.

When we were adding cards for the mini-theme Job defense we had room for one huge animal. We felt adding a new animal, particularly one that players have asked for, was a better choice than reprinting one that was already seeing play.

Fair enough.  And I definitely like the Behemoth, so I agree, I would chose it over a new Leviathan.
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Offline Gabe

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Re: Revelation of John - Set List and Information
« Reply #648 on: April 12, 2017, 10:04:42 PM »
0
Tournament judges discretion how much "want to" you are displaying.  :police:

At my tournaments players will be required to say "really, really" before selecting a non-Angel banding target or it won't count.
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Offline Josh

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Re: Revelation of John - Set List and Information
« Reply #649 on: April 12, 2017, 10:15:24 PM »
+6
I'm a bit confused as to how we are defining really really want to. I look forward to an extensive REG entry.

Quote from: The REG
"Want To" Abilities

General Description
A "want to" ability is an ability that allows a player to activate an ability he wants to, or target any number of cards he wants to with a named special ability.

How to Play
When a "want to" ability is activated, its controller chooses a special ability to activate, or chooses any number of targets for a specified ability.

Default Conditions
● A "want to" ability that allows its controller to choose an ability must choose an ability that is currently defined in the REG.
● A "want to" ability that allows its controller to choose any number of targets for a specified ability defaults to play, unless stated otherwise in the specific ability that the "wants to" ability is choosing targets for.

Clarifications
● When naming a special ability of choice, all REG rules that apply to that ability also apply to the "want to" ability. 
● The words "really want to" and "really really want to" mean the same as "want to".
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