Author Topic: Revelation of John - Set List and Information  (Read 98053 times)

browarod

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: Revelation of John - Set List and Information
« Reply #550 on: April 11, 2017, 05:31:43 PM »
0
For Words of the Accuser, should it have "You may" at the beginning or is it supposed to always immediately discard itself if it's not prevented?

TheHobbit13

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: Revelation of John - Set List and Information
« Reply #551 on: April 11, 2017, 05:47:05 PM »
0
Negating protect abilities is what Coliseum is for...but if you want to negate protect abilities without running Coliseum, you can still use the old Michael's Sword.  :P

We felt that one of Michael's "weaknesses" (especially if he's not holding Angel's Sword) is that he will typically give up initiative. Angels have plenty of interrupts/negates (Flaming Sword, Striking Herod, Walking on Water, Protection of Angels, Swift Beings), but what a Hero like Michael might struggle against is the "chump" blocks of DoU, SSS and Bel's Banquet. This new Michael's Sword gives the player a way to combat that.

First strike doesn't really fight that narrative but its nice on captain and tsa so I guess  ;)

Offline The Guardian

  • Playtester, Redemption Elder
  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+96)
  • *****
  • Posts: 12344
  • The Stars are coming out...
    • -
    • North Central Region
Re: Revelation of John - Set List and Information
« Reply #552 on: April 11, 2017, 05:52:03 PM »
0
The idea is that Michael's Sword will force the opponent to actually "fight" Michael, and not just chump block him.  8)
Fortress Alstad
Have you checked the REG?
Have you looked it up in ORCID?

Offline The Guardian

  • Playtester, Redemption Elder
  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+96)
  • *****
  • Posts: 12344
  • The Stars are coming out...
    • -
    • North Central Region
Re: Revelation of John - Set List and Information
« Reply #553 on: April 11, 2017, 05:54:58 PM »
+1
For Words of the Accuser, should it have "You may" at the beginning or is it supposed to always immediately discard itself if it's not prevented?

You are correct--that will be fixed.  8)

Fortress Alstad
Have you checked the REG?
Have you looked it up in ORCID?

Offline Kevinthedude

  • Tournament Host
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • *****
  • Posts: 1856
  • Yo
    • -
    • North Central Region
Re: Revelation of John - Set List and Information
« Reply #554 on: April 11, 2017, 06:03:25 PM »
+3
So glad to see a reprint of Abaddon and for it to be actually a really strong card. Got a lot of use out of him back when a vanilla 10/10 non-human was pretty sweet.

Offline megamanlan

  • Trade Count: (+26)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2914
  • Autobots! Transform and play Redemption!
    • LFG
    • North Central Region
Re: Revelation of John - Set List and Information
« Reply #555 on: April 11, 2017, 11:21:04 PM »
0
Negating protect abilities is what Coliseum is for...but if you want to negate protect abilities without running Coliseum, you can still use the old Michael's Sword.  :P

We felt that one of Michael's "weaknesses" (especially if he's not holding Angel's Sword) is that he will typically give up initiative. Angels have plenty of interrupts/negates (Flaming Sword, Striking Herod, Walking on Water, Protection of Angels, Swift Beings), but what a Hero like Michael might struggle against is the "chump" blocks of DoU, SSS and Bel's Banquet. This new Michael's Sword gives the player a way to combat that.

Well I was thinking for Protects outside of battle (Sites/Forts/etc) but now that I'm thinking about it, maybe it should be more of "Protect holder from being Underdecked or Withdrawn."
They seem pretty lame as fighters maybe we should challenge them to a dance off or a redemption game

Offline ChristianSoldier

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1613
    • -
    • North Central Region
Re: Revelation of John - Set List and Information
« Reply #556 on: April 12, 2017, 03:50:39 AM »
+1
About Famine, its ability is Discard the top card of each other player's deck. Decrease a hero X/X. X = Strength of discarded card.

Two questions.
1) Was it intended to discard from a teammate's deck? (If so, awesome)
2) If multiple cards are discarded, how do you determine X? Do you pick?
If you are reading this signature, thank a physicist.

Offline megamanlan

  • Trade Count: (+26)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2914
  • Autobots! Transform and play Redemption!
    • LFG
    • North Central Region
Re: Revelation of John - Set List and Information
« Reply #557 on: April 12, 2017, 05:34:40 AM »
-5
Before I start... I'll say this: I LOVE THE NEW FIFTH SEAL. I can tutor any of my Silver Enhancements from Deck? Yes please!

Now, I am really disappointed with The First Seal. (Not Conquerer, just the Enhancement.) Is it possible to add something like: "If a Warrior Class Human was discarded: Negate Characters" or "Protect your Heroes from the Discarded Character's brigade" or something? Because there is a fair amount of Silver "Discard an EC" and they just land as meh or terrible (see Eaten by Worms (I) ) and I'd like to see First Seal do a little bit more for me losing a very useful EC.

And I still feel as if the Sixth Seal should at be an ItB... to make it playable... and can we be honest? Silver really has very few Good ItB's that are not just "Negate Enhancement/Negate last" and that's really just Striking Herod and Protection of Angels (which are both great) and Swift Beings (which I still feel that Silver got short changed there... it needs to do more especially when all other cards like this are typically a Draw then play). I feel that Sixth Seal would benefit more from being an ItB even if you have to combine the other effects to make it be balanced. (Like: Interrupt the Battle, Discard a Site to Return all Human Evil Characters to the Owner's Hand.)
They seem pretty lame as fighters maybe we should challenge them to a dance off or a redemption game

Offline Watchman

  • Tournament Host
  • Trade Count: (+47)
  • *****
  • Posts: 2487
    • -
    • Southeast Region
Re: Revelation of John - Set List and Information
« Reply #558 on: April 12, 2017, 08:29:23 AM »
0
In regards to the Sixth Seal (Terror), what would it be classified as (besides symbolic) in regards to targeting--only an evil character? This could apply to all of the seals but mainly this one since there is no picture of a character of some sort on it. I'm thinking about cards that target male evil characters, demons, beasts, animals, etc. and how those types of cards target these evil character seals.
Overcome satan by the blood of the Lamb, your testimony, and don't love your life to the death!

Offline Gabe

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+69)
  • *****
  • Posts: 10675
  • From Moses to the prophets, it's all about Him!
    • -
    • North Central Region
    • Land of Redemption
Re: Revelation of John - Set List and Information
« Reply #559 on: April 12, 2017, 08:34:06 AM »
+1
About Famine, its ability is Discard the top card of each other player's deck. Decrease a hero X/X. X = Strength of discarded card.

Two questions.
1) Was it intended to discard from a teammate's deck? (If so, awesome)
2) If multiple cards are discarded, how do you determine X? Do you pick?

Maybe the identifier is hard to read in that image but it reads slightly different than what you wrote. It says "X = strength of a discarded card"

The extra letter is important because it clarifies that when multiple cards are discarded only one counts. As the controller of the ability you get to choose which one you want to count.

Thank you for bringing up the teams interaction. We sometimes overlook those things, but in this case we are aware. That's an unfortunate consequence of the language we had to use to make this ability fit on the card. We originally tried to use "opponent's" in stead of "other players" but it pushes the ability past the two rows we have to work with. If you want to use famine in teams your partner will want to use something like Widows of Jappa or an ability that sets up the top of deck.
Have you visited the Land of Redemption today?

Offline Josh

  • Trade Count: (+46)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3187
    • -
    • East Central Region
Re: Revelation of John - Set List and Information
« Reply #560 on: April 12, 2017, 08:45:55 AM »
+4
Now, I am really disappointed with The First Seal. (Not Conquerer, just the Enhancement.) Is it possible to add something like: "If a Warrior Class Human was discarded: Negate Characters" or "Protect your Heroes from the Discarded Character's brigade" or something? Because there is a fair amount of Silver "Discard an EC" and they just land as meh or terrible (see Eaten by Worms (I) ) and I'd like to see First Seal do a little bit more for me losing a very useful EC.

First, not all Silver cards printed in RoJ are expected to be auto-adds to Silver decks. 

Second, the playtesters have spacial limitations to deal with for every card ability. 

Third, I think you are seriously underestimating the value of Dual Alignment cards in decks that can utilize both sides of the card.  Improving deck consistency at the cost of sacrificing just a bit of power almost always makes decks better in CCGs.

And I still feel as if the Sixth Seal should at be an ItB... to make it playable... and can we be honest? Silver really has very few Good ItB's that are not just "Negate Enhancement/Negate last" and that's really just Striking Herod and Protection of Angels (which are both great) and Swift Beings (which I still feel that Silver got short changed there)

How many ItB enhancements does Blue have?  Since you probably don't know, there are 2.  Only one is even halfway playable (Eve's Descendant), and even then it is almost never used in competitive decks.  Silver could have it worse.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2017, 08:54:13 AM by jmhartz »
If creation sings Your praises so will I
If You gave Your life to love them so will I

Offline Gabe

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+69)
  • *****
  • Posts: 10675
  • From Moses to the prophets, it's all about Him!
    • -
    • North Central Region
    • Land of Redemption
Re: Revelation of John - Set List and Information
« Reply #561 on: April 12, 2017, 08:46:41 AM »
+1
In regards to the Sixth Seal (Terror), what would it be classified as (besides symbolic) in regards to targeting--only an evil character? This could apply to all of the seals but mainly this one since there is no picture of a character of some sort on it. I'm thinking about cards that target male evil characters, demons, beasts, animals, etc. and how those types of cards target these evil character seals.

Excellent question. The first four seals obviously depict a male character so they will all be considered male. Terror on the other hand should have the "Genderless" identifier. I've added that to our master graphic (the LoR image won't update). That makes him more difficult to target but still leaves a lot of options.
Have you visited the Land of Redemption today?

Offline Josh

  • Trade Count: (+46)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3187
    • -
    • East Central Region
Re: Revelation of John - Set List and Information
« Reply #562 on: April 12, 2017, 09:10:24 AM »
0
Also, if anyone thinks 6th Seal is unplayable or weak because it doesn't interrupt or negate, don't forget it can be played preblock with Ethiopean Treasurer, or when TSA (RoJ) is blocked   ;)   

And I have a feeling if you pair ET with some FBTN heroes, your opponent's hand might be a bit small to begin with this tournament season, thus amplifying the damage inflicted by 6th Seal...
If creation sings Your praises so will I
If You gave Your life to love them so will I

Offline Josh

  • Trade Count: (+46)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3187
    • -
    • East Central Region
Re: Revelation of John - Set List and Information
« Reply #563 on: April 12, 2017, 09:34:02 AM »
0
Doesn't the sixth seal return all evil characters in battle to hand? How can it also be played preblock with Ethiopian treasurer because isn't it silver?

Whoops, I'm thinking of 6th Bowl of Wrath.  Never mind, carry on   :D
If creation sings Your praises so will I
If You gave Your life to love them so will I

Offline dermo4christ

  • Tournament Host
  • Trade Count: (+13)
  • *****
  • Posts: 1263
  • Finally a Nats Champion!!! Sealed 2020!!!!
    • -
    • Northeast Region
Re: Revelation of John - Set List and Information
« Reply #564 on: April 12, 2017, 09:48:35 AM »
0
Love The Haunting Spirits! It will be great with Tartaros!

Offline Ironisaac

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1662
  • 2070 Paradigm Shift Inbound
    • -
    • North Central Region
Re: Revelation of John - Set List and Information
« Reply #565 on: April 12, 2017, 09:54:48 AM »
+1
And I still feel as if the Sixth Seal should at be an ItB... to make it playable... and can we be honest? Silver really has very few Good ItB's that are not just "Negate Enhancement/Negate last" and that's really just Striking Herod and Protection of Angels (which are both great) and Swift Beings (which I still feel that Silver got short changed there)

How many ItB enhancements does Blue have?  Since you probably don't know, there are 2.  Only one is even halfway playable (Eve's Descendant), and even then it is almost never used in competitive decks.  Silver could have it worse.
Swift beings is a daniel enhancement, which makes it more useful than if it was another book. it is recurable with the new daniel and can be used with the foretelling angel to speed through your deck. sure it's not the best silver card, but I don't think you are giving it enough credit.
Some call me "Goofus"

Offline Josh

  • Trade Count: (+46)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3187
    • -
    • East Central Region
Re: Revelation of John - Set List and Information
« Reply #566 on: April 12, 2017, 11:25:48 AM »
+2
Love The Haunting Spirits! It will be great with Tartaros!

If you are planning on discarding your Revelation demon with Haunting Spirits and then place the discarded demon in Tartaros, you won't be able to decrease a human 3/3.  Tartaros is an "Instead" ability, and when something happens "Instead" of the cost in a cost-benefit ability, you don't get the benefit.

Just something to keep in mind.
If creation sings Your praises so will I
If You gave Your life to love them so will I

Offline The Guardian

  • Playtester, Redemption Elder
  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+96)
  • *****
  • Posts: 12344
  • The Stars are coming out...
    • -
    • North Central Region
Re: Revelation of John - Set List and Information
« Reply #567 on: April 12, 2017, 12:03:56 PM »
+2
Seems like there's still going to be 3 cards that are unknown after the player cards and URs are revealed later... unless the set isn't 129 cards after all... :scratch:

That would be silly...spoilers incoming!!!  :o
Fortress Alstad
Have you checked the REG?
Have you looked it up in ORCID?

Offline megamanlan

  • Trade Count: (+26)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2914
  • Autobots! Transform and play Redemption!
    • LFG
    • North Central Region
Re: Revelation of John - Set List and Information
« Reply #568 on: April 12, 2017, 12:27:11 PM »
-4
Now, I am really disappointed with The First Seal. (Not Conquerer, just the Enhancement.) Is it possible to add something like: "If a Warrior Class Human was discarded: Negate Characters" or "Protect your Heroes from the Discarded Character's brigade" or something? Because there is a fair amount of Silver "Discard an EC" and they just land as meh or terrible (see Eaten by Worms (I) ) and I'd like to see First Seal do a little bit more for me losing a very useful EC.

First, not all Silver cards printed in RoJ are expected to be auto-adds to Silver decks. 

Second, the playtesters have spacial limitations to deal with for every card ability. 

Third, I think you are seriously underestimating the value of Dual Alignment cards in decks that can utilize both sides of the card.  Improving deck consistency at the cost of sacrificing just a bit of power almost always makes decks better in CCGs.

And I still feel as if the Sixth Seal should at be an ItB... to make it playable... and can we be honest? Silver really has very few Good ItB's that are not just "Negate Enhancement/Negate last" and that's really just Striking Herod and Protection of Angels (which are both great) and Swift Beings (which I still feel that Silver got short changed there)

How many ItB enhancements does Blue have?  Since you probably don't know, there are 2.  Only one is even halfway playable (Eve's Descendant), and even then it is almost never used in competitive decks.  Silver could have it worse.

For Blue, I'd say that's because you have negates that can actually do stuff (like Joe before Pharaoh or Abe's Decendant). The best Silver negate is Live Coal, which is nice... but it's just a negate an Enhancement and the best place to play it is still not a mono-Silver deck. Also, War in Heaven will outclass and replace it. (Yay! We can finally negate and discard EC's... except Humans...)

The main thing that annoys me is seeing just another Silver Enhancement that just says "D/C an EC" especially when I turn to the originals and they are just better. A CBI Protected from Humans or a Decrease all EC's by 5/5 is better then just D/C an EC. The thing that makes The Third Seal playable is that it's CBN and won't be tossed by Coliseum. At this rate, I'd only Seals 1-4 to be able to use the Four Horsemen card more then First/Fourth helping the deck in a substantial way.

To be honest as is, The Bowls are better and they still kinda lose out to the Original 4 Seals. All I'm saying is just add a little something to make me not feel like I have to play it as an Enhancement only when I'm desperate for an Enhancement.
They seem pretty lame as fighters maybe we should challenge them to a dance off or a redemption game

Offline Gabe

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+69)
  • *****
  • Posts: 10675
  • From Moses to the prophets, it's all about Him!
    • -
    • North Central Region
    • Land of Redemption
Re: Revelation of John - Set List and Information
« Reply #569 on: April 12, 2017, 12:38:19 PM »
+4
Long rant about why the new seals are bad...

You're thinking from a strictly mono-silver offense perspective. Even then several of your points are debatable. The versatility that the new seals offer goes a long way towards the overall power level of the card.

I agree that the new seals won't always be the best choice. When an old card is playable we try not to make a reprint that is strictly better. The fact that people will still use the old ones sometimes, but also use the new ones sometimes is a win for both new players and veterans alike.

P.S. - Silver has a large selection of negate Enhancements available to choose from.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2017, 12:56:39 PM by Gabe »
Have you visited the Land of Redemption today?

Offline Gabe

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+69)
  • *****
  • Posts: 10675
  • From Moses to the prophets, it's all about Him!
    • -
    • North Central Region
    • Land of Redemption
Re: Revelation of John - Set List and Information
« Reply #570 on: April 12, 2017, 12:48:18 PM »
+1
Seems like there's still going to be 3 cards that are unknown after the player cards and URs are revealed later... unless the set isn't 129 cards after all... :scratch:

The final three cards have been spoiled on the forum by The Guardian, Red Dragon Thorn and I. Two of them are hidden in this thread.
Have you visited the Land of Redemption today?

Offline The Guardian

  • Playtester, Redemption Elder
  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+96)
  • *****
  • Posts: 12344
  • The Stars are coming out...
    • -
    • North Central Region
Re: Revelation of John - Set List and Information
« Reply #571 on: April 12, 2017, 12:54:54 PM »
+1
They won't be fooled again Gabe... ::)
Fortress Alstad
Have you checked the REG?
Have you looked it up in ORCID?

Offline Kevinthedude

  • Tournament Host
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • *****
  • Posts: 1856
  • Yo
    • -
    • North Central Region
Re: Revelation of John - Set List and Information
« Reply #572 on: April 12, 2017, 12:58:33 PM »
0
[Edited by R.O.S.E.S]

Spoiler (hover to show)

Edit by Kevin: Thanks for adding the spoiler I completely forgot about that.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2017, 01:28:00 PM by Kevinthedude »

Offline megamanlan

  • Trade Count: (+26)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2914
  • Autobots! Transform and play Redemption!
    • LFG
    • North Central Region
Re: Revelation of John - Set List and Information
« Reply #573 on: April 12, 2017, 01:01:32 PM »
0
Long rant about why the new seals are bad...

You're thinking from a strictly mono-silver offense perspective. Even then several of your points are debatable. The versatility that the new seals offer goes a long way towards the overall power level of the card.

I agree that the new seals won't always be the best choice. When an old card is playable we try to make a reprint that is strictly better. The fact that people will still use the old ones sometimes, but also use the new ones sometimes is a win for both new players and veterans alike.

P.S. - Silver has a large selection of negate Enhancements available to choose from.

My point on the negate cards is that War in Heaven/Live Coal makes me question why anyone would play any others (besides Gloria, but I usually don't put that into that category because Gloria works best outside of Battle, which I'm happy with.)

I will say that yea I am coming at this looking at it from a lens of a player that prefers mono-Silver. But that is also why I get confused with some of these cards. Although for me this is kinda coming from that I'd like to see more of an identity for something like Revelation Angels which I see hints of, but not a ton of. (Although that can be just me being greedy... and not liking when multiple cards have basically the same effect.)

And I still feel as if the Sixth Seal should at be an ItB... to make it playable... and can we be honest? Silver really has very few Good ItB's that are not just "Negate Enhancement/Negate last" and that's really just Striking Herod and Protection of Angels (which are both great) and Swift Beings (which I still feel that Silver got short changed there)

How many ItB enhancements does Blue have?  Since you probably don't know, there are 2.  Only one is even halfway playable (Eve's Descendant), and even then it is almost never used in competitive decks.  Silver could have it worse.
Swift beings is a daniel enhancement, which makes it more useful than if it was another book. it is recurable with the new daniel and can be used with the foretelling angel to speed through your deck. sure it's not the best silver card, but I don't think you are giving it enough credit.

True, although that doesn't help if your trying to play a Revelation only deck. (To get Legion of Angels effect and others.) Although until then I might try something with it. (I keep dropping it from my deck due to having about 2-3 Daniel cards...

I will say this: I love 2nd Seal and I'm gonna have a hard time choosing which 3rd Seal to play. Because the original is the only natural CBN card we have... but the new one devastates the Opponent's hand... and I'm not sure if deck building rules will let me play both.
They seem pretty lame as fighters maybe we should challenge them to a dance off or a redemption game

Offline Crashfach2002

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+145)
  • *****
  • Posts: 3057
    • -
    • East Central Region
Re: Revelation of John - Set List and Information
« Reply #574 on: April 12, 2017, 01:02:36 PM »
+1
They won't be fooled again Gabe... ::)

Not sure what your spoiled Fortress has to do with The Who!

 


SimplePortal 2.3.3 © 2008-2010, SimplePortal