Author Topic: Revelation of John - Set List and Information  (Read 96946 times)

Offline Watchman

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Re: Revelation of John - Set List and Information
« Reply #450 on: April 06, 2017, 06:22:35 PM »
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For simplicity's sake why not just leave it as a convert ability since "fall" is virtually synonymous?
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kariusvega

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Re: Revelation of John - Set List and Information
« Reply #451 on: April 06, 2017, 06:39:34 PM »
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because angels/demons otherwise cannot be converted

Offline Gabe

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Re: Revelation of John - Set List and Information
« Reply #452 on: April 06, 2017, 06:47:30 PM »
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For simplicity's sake why not just leave it as a convert ability since "fall" is virtually synonymous?
+1

Even though "fall" more accurately describes what happens I'm not a fan of using multiple terms to perform the same game action.
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Offline Watchman

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Re: Revelation of John - Set List and Information
« Reply #453 on: April 06, 2017, 06:55:11 PM »
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because angels/demons otherwise cannot be converted

In the REG a convert ability is synonymous with falling, as immune and protect are synonymous. And angels can be converted so long as the convert ability specifically targets the angel.
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browarod

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Re: Revelation of John - Set List and Information
« Reply #454 on: April 06, 2017, 07:08:23 PM »
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Just had a thought about Sorcerers. I assume it's intended for "take it to hand" and "or discard it to discard a good card" to be separate clauses, but the way it's worded it could be construed to mean you can either take it to hand or discard it to end up with the "discard a good card" benefit.

Offline ChristianSoldier

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Re: Revelation of John - Set List and Information
« Reply #455 on: April 06, 2017, 07:19:14 PM »
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About Sorcerers, it sounds to me that you could discard a Lost Soul, I'm assuming if you try to discard a Lost Soul it goes into play instead as per the general discarding from deck rules, am I right about this?
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Offline Gabe

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Re: Revelation of John - Set List and Information
« Reply #456 on: April 06, 2017, 07:48:58 PM »
+1
@Browa, we intend to either give you the card or if you want to discard an opponent's card you have to pay a cost by discarding your own.

@Christian Soldier, yes the game rule of putting the Lost Soul in play still applies.
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Offline Watchman

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Re: Revelation of John - Set List and Information
« Reply #457 on: April 06, 2017, 07:49:32 PM »
+1
Just had a thought about Sorcerers. I assume it's intended for "take it to hand" and "or discard it to discard a good card" to be separate clauses, but the way it's worded it could be construed to mean you can either take it to hand or discard it to end up with the "discard a good card" benefit.

So you're saying the wording should be something like this?

"Reveal the top or bottom card of deck. If it is not a good card, take it to hand. You may discard it instead to discard a good card."

On my initial reading of the ability though I felt that you had the option to take it to hand or discard it to discard a good card. I didn't see any ambiguity in it but I understand what you're saying.

What's scary about this ability is that it can get rid of Three Woes if Woes is aligned to good.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2017, 07:58:01 PM by Watchman492 »
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browarod

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Re: Revelation of John - Set List and Information
« Reply #458 on: April 06, 2017, 08:02:38 PM »
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My initial reading was the way it was intended as well, just thought I'd mention the possibility of ambiguity since the cards are still editable if needed.

Offline Xonathan

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Re: Revelation of John - Set List and Information
« Reply #459 on: April 07, 2017, 12:06:38 AM »
+1
I just realized that there are two emperors in between Vitellus and Domitian that aren't cards yet... hmmmm
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Offline sepjazzwarrior

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Re: Revelation of John - Set List and Information
« Reply #460 on: April 07, 2017, 08:10:29 AM »
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So how does Polycarp work exactly?  If your opponent plays something like dream where they interrupt, draw 3, then play an enhancement, how much of that gets insteaded?  dream would have to resolve before he could activate, so another enhancement will have been played because of the instead, what happens to that?  Also, with peter out, can't you just heal him when he gets discarded, making it so he never dies and all you NT enhancements become almost effectively CBN? (correct me if I'm wrong, but heal is not an instead ability, so he is still paying his cost by being discarded and his ability works, but them peter heals him so he returns to territory)

Offline The Guardian

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Re: Revelation of John - Set List and Information
« Reply #461 on: April 07, 2017, 12:19:54 PM »
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Two situation/combos were discovered which would have led to Lamb's Righteousness being able to rescue a captured Hero on the opponent's turn...one of those situations we were okay with, the other not so much. Can you figure out what those situations/combos were?  8)

Consequently, the condition for Lamb's Righteousness will be changing from "If you have not rescued a Lost Soul this turn" to simply "If rescuing." We probably should have just remembered KISS -- Keep It Simple Silly.  ;D
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TheHobbit13

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Re: Revelation of John - Set List and Information
« Reply #462 on: April 07, 2017, 12:29:13 PM »
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Oh right you could try and play it on  proud pharisee or entrapping pharisee  ::)

Offline Gabe

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Re: Revelation of John - Set List and Information
« Reply #463 on: April 07, 2017, 12:36:44 PM »
+1
So how does Polycarp work exactly?

Excellent questions! This is one of the more complicated cards we've printed in a long time. Partially because it's doing some new things we're not used to. The elders have had many discussions about this to make sure we understand it.

If your opponent plays something like dream where they interrupt, draw 3, then play an enhancement, how much of that gets insteaded?  dream would have to resolve before he could activate, so another enhancement will have been played because of the instead, what happens to that?

What happens here will depend on whether or not Dream is played during Special Initiative. Let's look at two scenarios:

A) Dream is played during regular initiative. If you Polycarp Dream it will no longer interrupt any ongoing abilities (protection for example) but you will continue with the draw 3 and play next abilities as normal.

B) An Evil Character is being removed giving it's owner SI. They play Dream to interrupt the removal. As soon as the interrupt attempts to active, before the draw 3 and play next, Polycarp can "instead" the interrupt. If he does, before any more abilities on Dream can resolve, we go back to the Evil Character being removed, granting another opportunity to interrupt/negate. If you interrupt or negate successfully on the second attempt, then you can complete the D3 and play next of Dream. If you don't successfully stop the removal the D3 and play next of Dream will never activate because there is no character in battle to activate on.

Quote from: REG>Instead>Special Conditions
When the triggering event occurs, the ability with the instead activates immediately, inserting itself before any additional abilities complete.

The above quote from the REG supports that Polycarp activates when the interrupt occurs, prior to the D3 and play next abilities.

Quote from: REG>Special Initiative
If a removing ability is negated (or cannot reactivate after an interrupt effect is played) and the negate (or interrupt effect that prevented reactivation) is later undone such that the original removing ability reactivates, this would trigger a separate instance of Special Initiative.

The above quote from the REG supports that if your interrupt/negate doesn't happen you're given a new opportunity to interrupt/negate.

Also, with peter out, can't you just heal him when he gets discarded, making it so he never dies and all you NT enhancements become almost effectively CBN? (correct me if I'm wrong, but heal is not an instead ability, so he is still paying his cost by being discarded and his ability works, but them peter heals him so he returns to territory)

We did a lot of work to clean up the healing rules last summer. One of the resulting changes is that when a character is healed from discard, they are never actually discarded. If you heal a martyr who discards himself as the cost for an effect (such as Polycarp) then the cost was never paid because the character was never discarded. The entire martyr theme would be broken with Peter if that was not the case!

Quote from: REG>Heal>How to Play
When a character is healed from being discarded, it is placed in the territory of the player with permanent control, and the discard is not considered to have completed for the purposes of abilities or conditions that trigger based on a character or card being discarded.

The above quote from the REG supports that the healed character was never discarded so the cost is not paid.
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Offline Ironisaac

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Re: Revelation of John - Set List and Information
« Reply #464 on: April 07, 2017, 12:55:51 PM »
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Also, with peter out, can't you just heal him when he gets discarded, making it so he never dies and all you NT enhancements become almost effectively CBN? (correct me if I'm wrong, but heal is not an instead ability, so he is still paying his cost by being discarded and his ability works, but them peter heals him so he returns to territory)

We did a lot of work to clean up the healing rules last summer. One of the resulting changes is that when a character is healed from discard, they are never actually discarded. If you heal a martyr who discards himself as the cost for an effect (such as Polycarp) then the cost was never paid because the character was never discarded. The entire martyr theme would be broken with Peter if that was not the case!


Dangit! i hope this didn't come about because i brought it up. Well, back to the drawing board for a deck this year. :'(
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Offline Crashfach2002

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Re: Revelation of John - Set List and Information
« Reply #465 on: April 07, 2017, 01:18:35 PM »
+3
So after setting my spreadsheet for the new set there are a few things we can decipher from the numbers for the cards yet to be released:


12:  will be a artifact or covenant

14:  will be a covenant, curse or fortress

16:  will be a fortress or a site

18:  falls between New Jerusalem / Bride of Christ & Babylon / The Harlot, so it will either be another like this or a site.

22:  will be a lost soul

26 - 28:  will be a "Multi-Type" card since it falls between Behemoth and Fourth Seal / Death.

30 - 41:  will either be "Multi-Type" cards, Multi-Color Heroes, or something new we don't know about (have no spoilers, just speculations).

54:  will be a multi-color hero or enhancement

61:  will be a multi-color enhancement

64 - 65:  will be a multi-color enhancement, blue card, clay card or gold hero

67-69:  will be gold card, green card, purple card, red card or a silver hero.

71 & 74:  will be silver heroes

81 & 82:  will be a silver hero or enhancement

88:  will be a multi-color evil character

92:  will be a multi-color evil character or enhancement

96, 98 & 99:  will be multi-color enhancements

102 - 109:  will be a multi-color enhancement, black card, brown card, crimson character.

114 - 119:  will be a gray card, or orange character.

122:  will be an orange character

126 & 127:  will be an orange enhancement or pale green character.

Offline The Guardian

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Re: Revelation of John - Set List and Information
« Reply #466 on: April 07, 2017, 01:37:23 PM »
+1
Oooooo, I love this game! Gimme a couple minutes and I'll grade your analysis.  8)
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Offline Kevinthedude

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Re: Revelation of John - Set List and Information
« Reply #467 on: April 07, 2017, 01:37:52 PM »
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Two situation/combos were discovered which would have led to Lamb's Righteousness being able to rescue a captured Hero on the opponent's turn...one of those situations we were okay with, the other not so much. Can you figure out what those situations/combos were?  8)

Consequently, the condition for Lamb's Righteousness will be changing from "If you have not rescued a Lost Soul this turn" to simply "If rescuing." We probably should have just remembered KISS -- Keep It Simple Silly.  ;D

Does that mean it can't rescue a soul if played in a battle challenge?

Offline The Guardian

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Re: Revelation of John - Set List and Information
« Reply #468 on: April 07, 2017, 01:51:39 PM »
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Two situation/combos were discovered which would have led to Lamb's Righteousness being able to rescue a captured Hero on the opponent's turn...one of those situations we were okay with, the other not so much. Can you figure out what those situations/combos were?  8)

Consequently, the condition for Lamb's Righteousness will be changing from "If you have not rescued a Lost Soul this turn" to simply "If rescuing." We probably should have just remembered KISS -- Keep It Simple Silly.  ;D

Does that mean it can't rescue a soul if played in a battle challenge?

Correct--that is the unfortunate drawback of the change, but ultimately necessary to prevent the aforementioned scenarios.
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Offline The Guardian

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Re: Revelation of John - Set List and Information
« Reply #469 on: April 07, 2017, 01:53:57 PM »
+1
So after setting my spreadsheet for the new set there are a few things we can decipher from the numbers for the cards yet to be released:

All of your deductions are correct, and you even made me realize that we had an error on one of the previews. Four Horsemen is actually card #92, not #93. #93 is the one that has not been previewed yet.  8)
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Offline Josh

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Re: Revelation of John - Set List and Information
« Reply #470 on: April 07, 2017, 03:22:55 PM »
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My initial reading was the way it was intended as well, just thought I'd mention the possibility of ambiguity since the cards are still editable if needed.

This is how I read it as well.  If the ability was designed to work as Browa reads it - you take the card to hand or discard it (X) to discard a good card (Y) - it seems to me you'd word and punctuate it exactly as it is written.

I would prefer a comma between the words "hand" and "or".  Would this make it more clear?
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browarod

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Re: Revelation of John - Set List and Information
« Reply #471 on: April 07, 2017, 04:58:07 PM »
+1
Spoilers from today's article have been added to the list! Sorry for the delay, getting ready for a weekend trip took up more of my day than I was expecting.

Offline megamanlan

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Re: Revelation of John - Set List and Information
« Reply #472 on: April 07, 2017, 07:23:21 PM »
+2
A new Roman Emperor? AWESOME!
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Offline Master Q

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Re: Revelation of John - Set List and Information
« Reply #473 on: April 09, 2017, 09:15:51 PM »
+1
Art/concepts of the Bowls turned out fantastic results! Very nice, especially love the icons in the abilities! A couple things:

1. Why abbreviate Joseph Mallord William Turner to J.M.W. Turner on the Second bowl, but not the Fourth?

2. I like what happened to Beast from the Earth. 8) But...

3. What happened to this guy??

Spoiler (hover to show)

I was thinking of incorporating him into my deck (still am for the colors/identifiers), but his ability's been nerfed to oblivion (and numbers decreased as well)... Is there not a more exciting ability that he can have?
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TheHobbit13

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Re: Revelation of John - Set List and Information
« Reply #474 on: April 09, 2017, 09:36:44 PM »
+1
Yeah, FP's ability is awful. There a so many awesome N.T sites in the new set that the last one will see much more play.

 


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