Cactus Game Design Message Boards

Hello Tournament Hosts.

1)  I have noticed some ties being reported recently where I would not expect them - situations where opponents may have played head to head and yet still reported as a tie.  Is everyone aware that if two players are tied in game score, the next thing to look at is who won the head to head match? 

If they are still tied, THEN you look at Lost Soul Score.  This was clarified last summer and included in the 2009 Tournament Guide (see below).  I just want to confirm our hosts are aware of how we determine a winner.

From p. 5 of the 2009 Tournament Host Guide
Determining the Winner: The winner is the player with the highest game score
after the last round. If two or more players are tied for 1st place in game score,
rank as lower any who lost a head to head match with a player tied for 1st. If the
players did not face each other, then the Lost Soul Score is examined. The player
with the highest Lost Soul Score is the winner.
Example: Tim finished with a Game Score of 12 and a Lost Soul Score of 15.
Mike finished with a Game Score of 12 and a Lost Soul Score of 16. Yet, Tim
defeated Mike in their head to head match. Therefore, Tim is the winner. If Tim
and Mike had not played each other then Mike would be declared the winner.
Otherwise, if the players tied in both game score and Lost Soul Score and did not
face each other they are co-champs and split the Ranking Points and prizes for
the current and next place finish.

2)  Also, a few people still seem to have the misunderstanding that you can score more Rescues than are required to win the game.  Only 5 rescues are scored in Type 1 or 7 in Type 2.  It doesn't matter if you play SoG, NJ, or rescue a Lost Souls card.  For example, you can't win a Type 1 game 6 to 2 - ever.  The only exception is when the play of card like SoG, NJ, or rescue a Lost Souls card sets up a tie where two players both rescue the required number of souls at the same time, then you look at the next point to settle the tie in that game.   This change was also included in the 2009 Tournament Guide.

My concern is that not everyone is aware of the changes made last summer or has reverted back to how things use to be out of habit.  If you haven't handled things this way, don't panic.  Just follow the above guidelines from here forward.

Thank you,
Rob

Rob,

Does the head-to-head tiebreaker apply to multiplayer games, too?  In other words, if two players played at the same table in an earlier round and they tie at the end, do we look at how they did when at the same table?

Thanks!

Rob,

Does the head-to-head tiebreaker apply to multiplayer games, too?  In other words, if two players played at the same table in an earlier round and they tie at the end, do we look at how they did when at the same table?

Thanks!

Yes.

Concerning multi-ties:

Say you have only four people left who will be playing the multi round (due to parents picking the others up).  So you basically have one round of T1-multi with all four at one table (it's a local tournament BTW).  At the end of the game, the winner has their five LS but the other three all have two LS.  How would the three way tie be settled (since there's not enough prople to play another game and there's only two packs for second place so one person wouldn't get any)?

Rob,

Does the tie breaker apply to 2nd place. At a recent tournament in type 1-2player, the winner had 12 points. Three players had 9 points. The 4th place player had less lost soul differential but had beat the 2nd and 3rd place player. Should the 4th place player have taken 2nd place?

1st place player - 12 points
2nd place player - 9 points, 8 lost soul differential
3nd place player - 9 points, 7 lost soul differential
4th place player - 9 points, 6 lost soul differential (beat both the 2nd and 3rd place players in head to head matches)

Thanks,
Bill

2 packs = $6 Redemption Cash = $2 each (or a Prophets pack, or two blue packs, perhaps?)

Unfortunately, there were only a Patriarch and a Kings pack left.

This is what I did (hopefully this will not get me kicked out of hosting):

I declared a sudden death match.  The person who won left the game (and went on to open his packs).  The remaining three kept on playing.  When the next person rescues a lost soul, the other two players had one turn to try and rescue a lost soul of their own (to try and tie for second).  I probably would of have them played until some one gets five lost souls but their parents were waiting for two of the three.  Again, I hope this doesn;t kick me out of the hosting gig (also the fact that the person who came in second will never have a chance of winning RNRS).

Quote from: everytribe on June 09, 2009, 10:24:41 PM

Rob,

Does the tie breaker apply to 2nd place. At a recent tournament in type 1-2player, the winner had 12 points. Three players had 9 points. The 4th place player had less lost soul differential but had beat the 2nd and 3rd place player. Should the 4th place player have taken 2nd place?

1st place player - 12 points
2nd place player - 9 points, 8 lost soul differential
3nd place player - 9 points, 7 lost soul differential
4th place player - 9 points, 6 lost soul differential (beat both the 2nd and 3rd place players in head to head matches)

Thanks,
Bill

I believe that is what Rob is saying in his posts.

1. Check Points -Tie (move to option 2)
2. Check Head to Head result - Didn't Play (move to option 3)
3. Lost Soul Differential

Ben has it correct. 

Bill your 4th place player should have been ranked 2nd because he defeated #2 and #3 in head to head.

Rob...............Thanks for the clarification. Its good to have everybody on the same page...........Bill

I would suggest continuing to use just game points/lost soul differential for determining pairings for the next round and only implement the head-to-head tie breaker at the end of the tournament.)

That is exactly how to do it.

Hey,

This question appears to have been overlooked.

In a case like Bill's where the tie is for second or third place, do head to head results against the player that got 1st place affect the head-to-head tie breaker or just head to head results between those that are tied?

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

We had an interesting finish to Type 1 2-player at Regionals last weekend.

We had 25 players and played 5 rounds.  At the end of 5 rounds, no player was undefeated, and 5 players had 12 points.  A 5-way tie in points.
Player A had beat player B who had beat player C who had beat player A.  A tie for those three.  Neither of the other two had beat these three.
Then, I went to Lost Soul differential.  The top two players (players A and B) had a tie.  The third place player (player C) was easy to determine.

The question I had was this:
AFTER you check lost soul differential, do you go BACK to head to head and check it between those two?  I assumed it was the intent of the rule, so, I awarded the victory to player A, who had beat player B in their head to head.

To further Bryon's post, basically when you go to head to head all three are tied in a sort of triangle. Then you go differential, and you still have two players tying. So what do you do know? Bryon went back to head to head, which is how I think it should have been done, but it's an interesting point that I believe should be addressed. 

double elimination