Author Topic: Thoughts on the Nats 2010 events schedule (Read 8998 times)

TheMarti · « **on:** March 29, 2010, 04:15:23 PM »

So, this is from another thread...

Quote from: TechnoEthicist on March 29, 2010, 02:19:31 PM

Why is Type 2 at the same time as booster? Why isn't it against Type 1 like in the past? I am curious to know the reasoning for these pairings???

This isn't against anything or anyone, I just wanted to throw the information out there so it can be discussed. As a community, we're generally very good about listening to the community at large, so I figured it would be okay for me to put it out there.

Schedule previous years:

Nats 2008 and 2009:
Thurs:
T2-2p
Sealed
Fri:
T1-2p
T2-multi
Teams (at night, I believe... someone check me on that)
Sat:
Booster
T1-multi

Reasons this schedule worked:
1. Least popular event (sealed) was on first day (Thursday is traditionally the least attended).
2. If you preferred a specific type of event, (closed vs. T1 vs. T2, or open 2p vs. open multi) you'd have the ability to play both events of that specific type.
3. T1-2p is Friday. This always works. If someone suggested different I'd be scared.
4. Booster was on Saturday and paired with a less popular event (T1-multi)

Reasons this schedule didn't work:
1. I believe T2-2p on the first day was of some concern, but we still had a good turnout (OH 2008).
2. Teams was not official yet, and it went so late. But, it wasn't official, it was after-hours.

Nats 2007: (I believe we used this at Nats 2006 as well, but I can't find documentation, lol)
Thurs:
T2-multi
Sealed
Fri:
T2-2p
T1-2p
Sat:
Booster
T1-multi

Reasons this schedule worked:
1. Two of the "least popular" events were on the least attended day.
2. T1-2p is Friday. This always works. If someone suggested different I'd be scared.
3. Booster was on Saturday and paired with a less popular event (T1-multi)

Reasons this schedule didn't work
I honestly can't think of any off the top of my head. Discuss?

Thread on popularity of events: http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/index.php?topic=17032.0

Basically, long story short, the schedule this year is so different than the norm, and I believe a lot of people will echo me that it's really inconvenient for people who have jobs and can only come Friday/Saturday or whatever. I understand some of the logic behind it, but at the same time, as I said, I believe the player base in general will have a lot to say about this.

I will edit this more as I go, I just cant think of what else I was going to say right now (work fried my brain).

Korunks · « **Reply #1 on:** March 29, 2010, 04:17:21 PM »

I cannot express how much I LOATHE this schedule! I am probably not going to be able to be there for all three days and I have to give up BOOSTER DRAFT? Hasn't booster been on the last day traditionally? If I can't do Booster I lose 50% of my reasons for even coming, and considering the investment maybe it would be better to skip Nationals altogether this year. Not cool

.

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #2 on:** March 29, 2010, 04:21:16 PM »

my favorite schedule was the 07. 08 was meh, the problem was is few people wanted to play T2 Multi.

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #3 on:** March 29, 2010, 05:27:53 PM »

What people fail to realize is that there is NO perfect Nats schedule. There are just too many events that people want to play and too many different types of players.

The T2 lovers won't be happy unless their events are on different days, and that means that they have to share a day with either T1-2p or Booster, which makes them unhappy. So T2 players are going to be upset no matter what schedule is used.

For that matter, NO EVENT wants to be on Friday with T1-2p, which means that whatever gets put that day will cause some complaints.

If people realize that there's no way to make everyone happy, then I think the best possible schedule would be:
Thur: TEAMS & Sealed (giving a multi-player and 2-player choice as well as a closed and open choice)
Fri: T1-2p & T2-mp (giving a multi-player and 2-player choice as well as offending the smallest category)
Sat: Booster & T2-2p & T1-mp (giving a multi-player and 2-player choice as well as a closed and open choice)

This puts the 3 biggest events (T1-2p, Booster, TEAMS) on different days.
It let's T1 players do both events.
It let's T2 players do both events.
It let's multi-player specialists do that all 3 days.
It lets 2-player specialists do that all 3 days.

CactusRob · « **Reply #4 on:** March 29, 2010, 05:44:59 PM »

With respect to Mark, Teams will not work on Thursday. Many teams will not pair up until players get to nationals and decide to play together. Then they need time to determine a strategy and construct complimentary decks. This is why Teams is best on Saturday. This caused me to switch booster draft to Thursday - players dive right in to the new cards on the first day. Anyway that was the thinking behind the schedule.

TechnoEthicist · « **Reply #5 on:** March 29, 2010, 06:04:16 PM »

Guess I can't argue that logic. Thanks for the explanation Rob! Now about that expansion set

....

Master KChief · « **Reply #6 on:** March 29, 2010, 06:08:35 PM »

i also like the logic behind that. now just to convince my significant other nats in new york is worth the hefty investment...

STAMP · « **Reply #7 on:** March 29, 2010, 06:17:57 PM »

Quote from: Master KChief on March 29, 2010, 06:08:35 PM

i also like the logic behind that. now just to convince my significant other nats in new york is worth the hefty investment...

Quite a commute to Boston from NY.

robm · « **Reply #8 on:** March 29, 2010, 06:19:29 PM »

I personally am just excited to be able to attend and play whatever is offered when ever is offered. My own wish was that I could have played sealed and t1 multi, which are paired together. At least my wife will play one and I will play the other.

And I look forward to the new Disciple box? expansion. Can't wait till it is officially announced!

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #9 on:** March 29, 2010, 06:31:48 PM »

I liked this schedule:
Day 0: All the starting stuff
Day 1: Sealed and T1 Multi (boring events)
Day 2: T1-2P, T2-2P, and TA (standard events)
Day 3: Booster, TEAMS, and T2-MP (awesome events)
props to BubbleBoy. that and the 07 are the best ones. 07 is my favorite though.

Master KChief · « **Reply #10 on:** March 29, 2010, 07:04:07 PM »

Quote from: STAMP on March 29, 2010, 06:17:57 PM

Quote from: Master KChief on March 29, 2010, 06:08:35 PM
i also like the logic behind that. now just to convince my significant other nats in new york is worth the hefty investment...

Quite a commute to Boston from NY.

my mistake, i meant boston. im in kansas city.

STAMP · « **Reply #11 on:** March 29, 2010, 07:10:51 PM »

Quote from: Master KChief on March 29, 2010, 07:04:07 PM

Quote from: STAMP on March 29, 2010, 06:17:57 PM
Quote from: Master KChief on March 29, 2010, 06:08:35 PM
i also like the logic behind that. now just to convince my significant other nats in new york is worth the hefty investment...

Quite a commute to Boston from NY.

my mistake, i meant boston. im in kansas city.

No problem. Just stay away from those escalators.

Master KChief · « **Reply #12 on:** March 29, 2010, 07:25:23 PM »

i heard a rumor there are no escalators in boston! is this true?

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #13 on:** March 29, 2010, 07:46:21 PM »

Quote from: Ring Wraith on March 29, 2010, 06:31:48 PM

I liked this schedule:
Day 0: All the starting stuff
Day 1: Sealed and T1 Multi (boring events)
Day 2: T1-2P, T2-2P, and TA (standard events)
Day 3: Booster, TEAMS, and T2-MP (awesome events)
props to BubbleBoy. that and the 07 are the best ones. 07 is my favorite though.

Thanks. I see why it might be nice to have booster on Thursday so that players can get the new cards right away, but if you can't use them during the tournament anyway, I don't see a huge advantage there. It seems like it would be best to have booster on the last day like it's always been done. Also, mightn't you be able to use the new set with sealed deck?

Another schedule that might be good:

Thurs: All the starting stuff (1st time period), Sealed and T1 Multi (2nd time period)
Fri: T1-2P and TA-2P (1st time period), T2-2P and TEAMS (2nd time period)
Sat: Booster and T2-MP (1st time period), all the ending stuff (2nd time period)

This fills up all of three days, and presents very little conflict between events. There are multiplayer events in all but the T1-2P period, two-player events in all but the last time period, the least popular events are on the first day, T1-2P is on the main day, and Booster is on the last day. Something like this would make everyone happy, right?

robm · « **Reply #14 on:** March 29, 2010, 07:55:37 PM »

Why can't everyone just appreciate the schedule that John M and Rob A. (and anyone else that may be involved) came up with. I don't think there going to change it at this point.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #15 on:** March 29, 2010, 08:05:40 PM »

Quote from: robm on March 29, 2010, 07:55:37 PM

Why can't everyone just appreciate the schedule that John M and Rob A. (and anyone else that may be involved) came up with. I don't think there going to change it at this point.

By "at this point," do you mean "over four months away"?

If the schedule is set in stone, then I will say nothing more about this than that I do not like it very much at all.

Master KChief · « **Reply #16 on:** March 29, 2010, 08:06:03 PM »

there is nothing wrong with constructive criticism.

Korunks · « **Reply #17 on:** March 29, 2010, 08:18:52 PM »

Quote

Why can't everyone just appreciate the schedule that John M and Rob A. (and anyone else that may be involved) came up with. I don't think there going to change it at this point.

With all due respect, why can we not voice our concerns, some of us cannot be there on Thursday, and we want to be able to compete in the events we are "good" at. If the schedule is set in stone it is what it is, I will no longer argue. But the redemption community (especially Rob) have proven themselves to be flexible and committed to creating the best schedule for all. We who are arguing are simply hoping there might be a more optimal arrangement. There is absolutely no harm in requesting schedule changes. Questioning their schedule is not equal to criticizing the people who made the schedule, we are simple voicing request's. I have the highest respect for Rob and John, I just was hoping to be able to go, that is all.

TheMarti · « **Reply #18 on:** March 29, 2010, 09:05:17 PM »

I was not meaning to sound argumentative or whatever with my initial post. I see the reasoning behind having teams on Saturday, yes. Thank you for the explanation, and I am leaving it at that.

~Marti

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #19 on:** March 29, 2010, 09:58:37 PM »

Quote from: BubbleBoy on March 29, 2010, 07:46:21 PM

Quote from: Ring Wraith on March 29, 2010, 06:31:48 PM
I liked this schedule:
Day 0: All the starting stuff
Day 1: Sealed and T1 Multi (boring events)
Day 2: T1-2P, T2-2P, and TA (standard events)
Day 3: Booster, TEAMS, and T2-MP (awesome events)
props to BubbleBoy. that and the 07 are the best ones. 07 is my favorite though.
Thanks. I see why it might be nice to have booster on Thursday so that players can get the new cards right away, but if you can't use them during the tournament anyway, I don't see a huge advantage there. It seems like it would be best to have booster on the last day like it's always been done. Also, mightn't you be able to use the new set with sealed deck?

Another schedule that might be good:

Thurs: All the starting stuff (1st time period), Sealed and T1 Multi (2nd time period)
Fri: T1-2P and TA-2P (1st time period), T2-2P and TEAMS (2nd time period)
Sat: Booster and T2-MP (1st time period), all the ending stuff (2nd time period)

This fills up all of three days, and presents very little conflict between events. There are multiplayer events in all but the T1-2P period, two-player events in all but the last time period, the least popular events are on the first day, T1-2P is on the main day, and Booster is on the last day. Something like this would make everyone happy, right?

T2-2P and T1-2P are the two longest events. outside of maybe Booster. there's no way that we can fit both in one day.

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #20 on:** March 29, 2010, 10:45:16 PM »

Quote from: CactusRob on March 29, 2010, 05:44:59 PM

With respect to Mark, Teams will not work on Thursday. Many teams will not pair up until players get to nationals and decide to play together.

That is a very good point Rob. In that case, I would agree that the current schedule is almost ideal.

The only questionable thing that I see is putting TEAMS and T1-mp at the same time, as they are both multi-player events using T1 decks. In fact, I might move T1-mp to an evening. Those games go pretty quickly, and not too many people play that event. It could probably fit on Fri evening without too much problem.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #21 on:** March 30, 2010, 12:20:33 AM »

Quote from: Ring Wraith on March 29, 2010, 09:58:37 PM

T2-2P and T1-2P are the two longest events. outside of maybe Booster. there's no way that we can fit both in one day.

Well, that could present a bit of a problem. In that case, I think I like my original schedule better. The '07 Nats schedule may have been the best option at the time, but you have to remember that we have a category (TEAMS) to fit in now that did not exist then, which makes things more complicated.

The Guardian · « **Reply #22 on:** March 30, 2010, 12:34:37 AM »

Quote

The only questionable thing that I see is putting TEAMS and T1-mp at the same time, as they are both multi-player events using T1 decks.

That's exactly why they should be paired together...

Personally, I'm not sure how wise it is to release the new set on the first day...it's going to give deck-checkers the extra challenge of making sure no one accidentally left a new card in one of their decks after a late night pick-up game for example.

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #23 on:** March 30, 2010, 10:49:23 AM »

Quote from: The Guardian on March 30, 2010, 12:34:37 AM

Quote
The only questionable thing that I see is putting TEAMS and T1-mp at the same time, as they are both multi-player events using T1 decks.

That's exactly why they should be paired together...

Personally, I'm not sure how wise it is to release the new set on the first day...it's going to give deck-checkers the extra challenge of making sure no one accidentally left a new card in one of their decks after a late night pick-up game for example.

Players add new cards to their decks anyways though, just to see if deck checkers can find um.

Gabe · « **Reply #24 on:** March 30, 2010, 10:52:34 AM »

Quote from: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on March 30, 2010, 10:49:23 AM

Players add new cards to their decks anyways though, just to see if deck checkers can find um.

Like when AW was released and a couple of the playtesters added an AW Michael to Robs booster draft deck.

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Author Topic: Thoughts on the Nats 2010 events schedule (Read 8998 times)

TheMarti

Warrior_Monk

Warrior_Monk

TheMarti

Warrior_Monk