Author Topic: Should Playtester be able to compete at NATS? (Read 7861 times)

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #25 on:** March 28, 2011, 08:23:33 AM »

Quote from: Professoralstad on March 28, 2011, 12:28:18 AM

As for Sealed Deck, if the new set was a starter deck, then playtesters would have a clear advantage. I can think of two possible solutions for this: 1) Don't use the new cards 2) Release the set list a week before Nationals so that everyone gets a chance to see the new cards before the tournament. I would support the second option, because I think that the idea of using the new set has been fun and has made BD one of the most popular categories at Nationals the past few years.

I vote option 2 please

and could we bump the date up to...oh, i dont know...today?

Another question...man i know how to make friends-

How many of these people knew about the cards and had somekind of advantage over other players because of it?

2010
Sealed Deck 32 Brandon Abbott - CA
Booster Draft
1st - Tyler Stevens (GA)
2nd - Matt Stupienski (CT)
3rd - Tim Mierzejewski (SC)
RNRS booster
1st - Shawn Capron (MD)
2nd - Tyler Stevens (GA)
3rd - Mark Underwood (KY)

Who got 4th place?

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #26 on:** March 28, 2011, 08:40:38 AM »

I also want to make another point clear-

Most of us on the boards- even non playtesters- knew about the new sets before they were released.
I think to be fair to everyone else- there should be a prerelease of some kind as ProfA has suggested so that the claims made on this post (no matter how mistaken) can not be an issue in the future.

As for releasing the new set to the public, realistically, I would say revealing a new card every day a month prior to the release seems logical.

The M · « **Reply #27 on:** March 28, 2011, 09:44:49 AM »

Quote from: RTSmaniac on March 28, 2011, 08:40:38 AM

I also want to make another point clear-

Most of us on the boards- even non playtesters- knew about the new sets before they were released.
I think to be fair to everyone else- there should be a prerelease of some kind as ProfA has suggested so that the claims made on this post (no matter how mistaken) can not be an issue in the future.

As for releasing the new set to the public, realistically, I would say revealing a new card every day a month prior to the release seems logical.

I remember seeing CP for the first time after Nats and thinking, "what's so good about that?"
Then I learned about the other sites...

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #28 on:** March 28, 2011, 10:34:43 AM »

Quote from: RTSmaniac on March 28, 2011, 08:23:33 AM

How many of these people knew about the cards and had some kind of advantage over other players because of it?

2010
RNRS booster
3rd - Mark Underwood (KY)

I don't know about anyone else, but me being a playtester had absolutely no affect on me in 2010. I didn't become an elder until just a few months before Nats last summer, so I knew nothing about any of the TXP cards that were legal during 2010 until the set was released.

I also personally chose to NOT look at any of the Disciples cards until after they were released this year. Since they had already been sent to the printer before I became an elder, I didn't have a chance to give any input on them. Therefore, since I wasn't helping to make the set, I just chose to not get to look at them until everyone else did.

As for this overall issue, I don't think that playtesting the cards really would make much of a difference in Booster draft. I do think that it could make a difference in Sealed Deck, but since when do Elder-caliber players choose Sealed Deck over whatever else is that day anyway?

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #29 on:** March 28, 2011, 10:39:33 AM »

Quote from: TechnoEthicist on March 28, 2011, 07:34:41 AM

We would have to see after this year depending on things if a playtester actually won a category (say sealed for example) where the majority of the cards are new.

and this is why I started this post because I dont want people to take on this view...

Quote from: Prof Underwood on March 28, 2011, 10:34:43 AM

I also personally chose to NOT look at any of the Disciples cards until after they were released this year. Since they had already been sent to the printer before I became an elder, I didn't have a chance to give any input on them. Therefore, since I wasn't helping to make the set, I just chose to not get to look at them until everyone else did.

I remember this Mark.

Quote

As for this overall issue, I don't think that playtesting the cards really would make much of a difference in Booster draft. I do think that it could make a difference in Sealed Deck, but since when do Elder-caliber players choose Sealed Deck over whatever else is that day anyway?

Saturday - open at 8am, start play at 9am

Type 1 Multiplayer 5 rounds
Sealed deck 6 rounds
Teams 6 rounds

So what does everyone want to play this year? Another note: If sealed does consist of new starter decks, everyone will have plenty of time to see the cards before Saturday and I assume trade the heck out of them.

STAMP · « **Reply #30 on:** March 28, 2011, 11:04:49 AM »

We in the NW have always been in the dark about everything. As such, we do not have an opinion on the matter.

We just like surprises.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #31 on:** March 28, 2011, 11:41:24 AM »

I knew the entire set before Booster draft despite not directly playtesting any cards for Disciples. Does that mean I can not play?

I disagree with the entire premise of this argument. In a random event like Booster draft, knowing the cards is not that much of an advantage. I might be able to grab a Good Samaritan in hopes of a Kindness, but even then, there is no gurantee, and I may have just wasted my draft. Or, if I see a Jake and an artifact, yeah, he could have an Uzzah, but he could also have a hand of 4 and no ECs. Ultimately, the minor advantage of knowing more about the cards is completely mitigated by the fact that booster in by far largely initially determined by luck.

Gabe · « **Reply #32 on:** March 28, 2011, 12:21:50 PM »

Even before I was part of the Redemption play test team I did not have a problem with them playing in the sealed event at Nationals. I still don't. Some of my reasons for that are:

In the draft, new cards make up a small portion of the total card pool.

In a multi-player event people are more likely to pick on the "known entity" (aka the play tester).

Just because they volunteer their time to help give us a great game to play doesn't mean that they shouldn't be able to enjoy it too.

The entire card list is released the day before or the first day of Nationals. Everyone has a chance to look it over.

Since becoming an elder and seeing more of the process involved I've also learned these things:

Not all of the elders are involved in the card design and testing process. Some play important other roles are don't participate in every set due to the season of their life.

There are too many cards in any set for each person to thoroughly play test them all. That's why we have a team. It's likely that none of the elders are familiar with all the cards.

The card list changes often. Cards are added/removed weekly for various reasons. Abilities, stats and even brigades change during the process. When Disciples was released I found myself sometimes thinking "I don't remember this card doing that!"

The cards usually go to print in late April. Most of the elders don't look at the list or give it a second thought after that.

Since the new set has been released during booster draft every year since I started playing Redemption some of those things don't apply directly to Sealed Deck. I can see where someone who play tested would have more of an advantage there. For several of the reasons listed above I still don't mind elders playing sealed deck, even though I never have.

TheHobbit13 · « **Reply #33 on:** March 28, 2011, 02:12:58 PM »

If this game had a larger player base and more popularity I would be fine if the PTB were not allowed to play in the sealed catagories. But since this game is smaller and about fun and fellowship I think they should be able to have fun too.

As for an advantage they obviously do have one, but booster is so random it isn't a large enough one to justify this course of action.

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #34 on:** March 28, 2011, 10:01:11 PM »

I agree.

I luz me some playtesters!

Mr.Hiatus · « **Reply #35 on:** March 28, 2011, 10:19:14 PM »

Quote

2010
Sealed Deck 32 Brandon Abbott - CA
Booster Draft
1st - Tyler Stevens (GA)
2nd - Matt Stupienski (CT)
3rd - Tim Mierzejewski (SC)
RNRS booster
1st - Shawn Capron (MD)
2nd - Tyler Stevens (GA)
3rd - Mark Underwood (KY)

You're lucky 2 out of those 6 people happen to be your best friend! I plead da fifth.

soul seeker · « **Reply #36 on:** March 29, 2011, 12:05:51 AM »

Personally, I'm not a fan of someone having an upper hand on me because of privileged status, but that's me.

I do believe playtesters have an advantage no matter how minute.

However, to be fair, I don't know why I am not a playtester, but if my guess is correct, then those who are playtesters likely would have an advantage over me anyway.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #37 on:** March 29, 2011, 01:02:27 AM »

One thing that could dissolve any skepticism is for the cards to be revealed to the public like a week before nats, so everyone can have plenty of time to get used to them. I never understood why the cards couldn't be seen until like right at nats. Surprise factor? What's the value? Maybe so the playtesters have an advantage, eh?

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #38 on:** March 29, 2011, 01:10:57 AM »

I actually really really like nobody knowing the cards at the time of booster/sealed (which is why I'm so happy that we're doing Booster first. If the set is for booster, it'll be awesome debuting it so that nobody (except playtesters...) know any of the new cards. If it's sealed, it doesn't really matter, since I don't play sealed. I could care less if playtesters do know...as long as they don't beat me.

christiangamer25 · « **Reply #39 on:** March 29, 2011, 02:26:10 AM »

but if nobody knows then thats still unfair i mean hes prolly gonna be there lol

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #40 on:** March 29, 2011, 11:01:11 AM »

Quote from: Mr.Hiatus on March 28, 2011, 10:19:14 PM

Quote
2010
Sealed Deck 32 Brandon Abbott - CA
Booster Draft
1st - Tyler Stevens (GA)
2nd - Matt Stupienski (CT)
3rd - Tim Mierzejewski (SC)
RNRS booster
1st - Shawn Capron (MD)
2nd - Tyler Stevens (GA)
3rd - Mark Underwood (KY)
You're lucky 2 out of those 6 people happen to be your best friend! I plead da fifth.

Ahh YEA! Can Tyler Stevens, current Booster Draft Champion, hold on to his title? Will he reign supreme?
I say NO! Reason?

Day 1:
Thursday - open at 8am, start play at 9am
Type 2 Multiplayer 4 rounds
Booster Draft 5 rounds

Type 2 event. 4 Rounds.

Mr.Hiatus · « **Reply #41 on:** March 29, 2011, 12:21:34 PM »

My belts on the line this year, I will be playing type 2 multi this year.

Michael_of_the_Star · « **Reply #42 on:** March 30, 2011, 01:35:56 PM »

Quote from: Red Dragon Thorn on March 28, 2011, 01:04:38 AM

I'm pretty bad at this game, so knowing what the cards are before hand doesn't really help me much

That is same with few playtester as well. Even knowing all the cards doesn't mean they play that certain brigade. I mean I love White, Purple, but I always get Green and Gold in Booster. Plus, Booster draft is a randomize, so not everyone would get the new cards. Lastly, for Seal deck, doesn't the players have time to read through their cards after they drafted? So they can have a chance to learn their new cards and the box of the deck should tells what color are in each deck so to be fair, players can get a brief understanding of the deck, but if you are like Brandon, then use cheap packs and create a national winning deck.

Quote from: Ring Wraith on March 29, 2011, 01:10:57 AM

I actually really really like nobody knowing the cards at the time of booster/sealed (which is why I'm so happy that we're doing Booster first. If the set is for booster, it'll be awesome debuting it so that nobody (except playtesters...) know any of the new cards. If it's sealed, it doesn't really matter, since I don't play sealed. I could care less if playtesters do know...as long as they don't beat me.

From earlier conversations, you guys were talking about using new sets in tournament. Well, can't we just have booster draft using new cards and seal don't. Because I do see seal have a little bit disadvantage while booster is just a randomize making deck. Thanks.

ML.

TimMierz · « **Reply #43 on:** March 30, 2011, 04:28:57 PM »

I had no special advance knowledge of the cards. Then again, I got third place, and even that was debatable (the strange stuff going on with inconsistent score reporting in a game with Bryon Hake).

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #44 on:** March 30, 2011, 09:33:55 PM »

I still don't understand why people like waiting until the last moment to figure out what the new cards are. I would MUCH rather study them all at leisure before going to the tournament, to know what to expect, plan, and trade for once I get there. I don't know about the rest of you, but I don't have an iPad to bring with me to the tournament, so I can't look up all the cards right after they go up on the REG.

And if you don't WANT to see the new cards, you don't have to look...

Lawfuldog · « **Reply #45 on:** March 30, 2011, 10:11:51 PM »

Please do not read the following post as being arrogant, at all, for those of you that know me know that I am not one to boast. I've just been around in the Booster and Sealed world for a while and have had my share of experiences.

Knowing what cards you could get doesn't mean you will get them. I see nothing wrong with playtesters playing. When it comes down to it, Booster and Sealed are games highly based on random factors. But those random factors can either be used correctly or incorrectly, which is where the player's skill comes into play. Frankly, I would love for you to know all of the cards I could have gotten, but you won't know what cards I did get. Your knowledge of what I could have only strengthens one of the strongest aspects of Sealed and Booster, the bluff.

I <3 Booster.

Ironica · « **Reply #46 on:** March 31, 2011, 03:13:01 AM »

Are dice makers forbidden from yatzee?

Also, booster is my favorite catagory. Too bad its too expensive to host it myself.

Rawrlolsauce! · « **Reply #47 on:** March 31, 2011, 10:20:24 AM »

Quote from: Ironica on March 31, 2011, 03:13:01 AM

Are dice makers forbidden from yatzee?

The difference is knowing what the dice do doesn't give them an advantage.

Mr.Hiatus · « **Reply #48 on:** March 31, 2011, 03:56:38 PM »

It's not that there is a huge advantage in booster, because there really is not. The advantage comes when, and IF, the new set is sealed.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #49 on:** March 31, 2011, 08:29:20 PM »

Advance knowledge of 4-5 cards in your deck < Advance knowledge of 50.

News:

Author Topic: Should Playtester be able to compete at NATS? (Read 7861 times)

TheHobbit13

Warrior_Monk

Ironica

Rawrlolsauce!