Author Topic: Rule changes discussion (Specifically hand limit) (Read 17419 times)

crustpope · « **Reply #75 on:** August 05, 2009, 02:23:51 PM »

I dont like hand limit idea. I think it is punishing too many good decks. The counters to these decks should come through people playing against the strategies and not through handcuffing the "dominant Decks" through Game rules.

TheHobbit13 · « **Reply #76 on:** August 05, 2009, 02:46:20 PM »

Gifts of the magi and the amount of drawing in Redemption is broken, thank you Rob for responding. I also like the other rules too (is there still going to be type one multi?).

EmJayBee83 · « **Reply #77 on:** August 05, 2009, 04:01:36 PM »

Quote from: TheHobbit13 on August 05, 2009, 02:46:20 PM

Gifts of the magi and the amount of drawing in Redemption is broken, thank you Rob for responding. I also like the other rules too (is there still going to be type one multi?).

Now that they've fixed the worst of the broken drawing, T1-MP may see a bit of a renaissance.

lightningninja · « **Reply #78 on:** August 05, 2009, 04:05:18 PM »

Seriously. I'm not sure if I'm running speed anymore... although to be honest, Darius' Decree and the new cards stopped me more than the 14 hand limit.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #79 on:** August 05, 2009, 04:29:53 PM »

Quote from: lightningninja on August 05, 2009, 04:05:18 PM

Seriously. I'm not sure if I'm running speed anymore... although to be honest, Darius' Decree and the new cards stopped me more than the 14 hand limit.

16...

The Guardian · « **Reply #80 on:** August 05, 2009, 04:31:46 PM »

Quote from: lightningninja on August 05, 2009, 04:05:18 PM

Seriously. I'm not sure if I'm running speed anymore... although to be honest, Darius' Decree and the new cards stopped me more than the 14 hand limit.

For real, in a 4 player game, who is going to want to set aside all their Heroes with Pentecost when 3 other players could potentially flip DD? DD alone makes T1 MP so much better. I may just start buying up DDs and handing them out to RLKs...

crustpope · « **Reply #81 on:** August 05, 2009, 05:11:47 PM »

Fix it with Cards not with rules. hand limits are not the best solution. Especially to a deck that is no where near tested enough to see if it is broken.

The Schaef · « **Reply #82 on:** August 05, 2009, 05:57:28 PM »

time will tell the tale, will it not?

Gabe · « **Reply #83 on:** August 05, 2009, 05:57:51 PM »

I don't think the reason for the rule change is whether or not a certain deck is broken. I believe the reason behind the new hand limit rule is that there are decks possible that go against the spirit of the game.

If fun and fellowship is the goal, it's no fun and promotes very little fellowship to have any deck play solitaire for an extended period of time while the opponent doesn't get to do anything. There are a variety of different combo decks that use a draw engine to accomplish this goal. I can't speak for Rob or the playtesters but I don't think their goal is to kill any deck or category of decks. They simply want these decks to exist in a manner that encourages fun & fellowship in the game. Limiting the draw engine might be the solution to accomplish that.

I like the rule changes, including the cap on hand size. That's coming from someone who many would say is a "speed deck player". Give it a chance with an open mind. You might just find that it's a good thing.

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #84 on:** August 05, 2009, 06:41:19 PM »

i am all for open mindedness however i agree with crustpope

fix it with cards not rules

btw darius' decree is amazing! this is a great example of how to affect the game due to card creation.

create a new death and hades card that affects drawing limit and cant be discarded maybe?

FresnoRedemption · « **Reply #85 on:** August 05, 2009, 06:59:55 PM »

Quote from: RTSmaniac on August 05, 2009, 06:41:19 PM

i am all for open mindedness however i agree with crustpope

fix it with cards not rules

btw darius' decree is amazing! this is a great example of how to affect the game due to card creation.

create a new death and hades card that affects drawing limit and cant be discarded maybe?

Yeah, maybe create an Artifact that prevents your opponent from having more than 16 cards in their hand or something.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #86 on:** August 05, 2009, 08:03:13 PM »

An artifact might be okay if there were a way for it not to take up an artifact slot, but...

I really like the idea of a new Death & Hades though.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #87 on:** August 06, 2009, 12:06:05 AM »

Make a fortress. That's been the answer to everything thus far.

Aocp abuse
CTB abuse
Splash Defense

ejberkenpas22 · « **Reply #88 on:** August 06, 2009, 12:11:51 AM »

the truth of the matter is if you think about it...a speed limit was put in place. Speed still works its just a little slower. Say speed decks used to be 70 MPH...now they are like 60. I'm going to continue to play my speed deck with the new rule and see if it still works...I bet it does!

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #89 on:** August 06, 2009, 12:13:23 AM »

Like we said, t-1 isn't affected at all. Type 2 can't abuse 5x (insert drawing card) anymore. That's about as far as it goes.

ejberkenpas22 · « **Reply #90 on:** August 06, 2009, 12:17:19 AM »

Quote from: Alex_Olijar on August 06, 2009, 12:13:23 AM

Like we said, t-1 isn't affected at all.

YAY! Well, at least not until everyone complains more that it should be lowered haha.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #91 on:** August 06, 2009, 12:19:38 AM »

Yeah. I ran your deck and didn't ever go above 13 in hand. In fact, I can't recall ever getting to 16 with a speed deck. Probably because I never used Hur + Gifts + Love at First Sight + Coat of Many Colors all in one RA

The Guardian · « **Reply #92 on:** August 06, 2009, 12:48:54 AM »

T1 MP will be affected though. A player who starts with 8, draws 3 on their turn, and 3-4 for one of the Feasts is not going to be able to rip off a Mahari/Claudia/ET combo with Words/Reach/Book/L@FS, which I think is a good thing.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #93 on:** August 06, 2009, 12:49:34 AM »

Darn, t-1 multi is going to change. But we all loved it?

The Guardian · « **Reply #94 on:** August 06, 2009, 12:53:57 AM »

Quote from: The Guardian on August 06, 2009, 12:48:54 AM

T1 MP will be affected though. A player who starts with 8, draws 3 on their turn, and 3-4 for one of the Feasts is not going to be able to rip off a Mahari/Claudia/ET combo with Words/Reach/Book/L@FS, which I think is a good thing.

ejberkenpas22 · « **Reply #95 on:** August 06, 2009, 12:58:50 AM »

Quote from: The Guardian on August 06, 2009, 12:48:54 AM

T1 MP will be affected though. A player who starts with 8, draws 3 on their turn, and 3-4 for one of the Feasts is not going to be able to rip off a Mahari/Claudia/ET combo with Words/Reach/Book/L@FS, which I think is a good thing.

I still beg to differ because of the Preparation Phase...I draw 3 (11 cards in my hand). 75% of my deck is cards that can be played in the preparation phase. All I have to do is play 4 cards (hand at 7) and go Mahari, claudia, ET play reach, words, and hozai (hand 16) and voila! I drew 9 cards, didn't have to discard any, and stayed within the rules. I guess only time will tell but just the way I am seeing it this rule will only have a minor effect on T1, namely the drawing will instead span 3 turns rather than one or two.

crustpope · « **Reply #96 on:** August 06, 2009, 03:13:51 AM »

Quote from: BrianGabe on August 05, 2009, 05:57:51 PM

If fun and fellowship is the goal, it's no fun and promotes very little fellowship to have any deck play solitaire for an extended period of time while the opponent doesn't get to do anything.

Says the man who defends Pre-block ignore and TGT.

Solitaire is the nature of type 2 It comes with the territory. Occasionally you get locked out and those are the minefields that you have to dodge. If its a bad thing, then fix it with cards like cactus has done many times in the past.

The Guardian · « **Reply #97 on:** August 06, 2009, 03:51:25 AM »

T2 isn't always solitaire...the only way you can possibly know with 100% certainty if you are able to rescue a LS or not on a given turn is if you know exactly what your opponent has in his hand...oh wait...

Have I ever mentioned how powerful I think U&T is?

*Waits for Schaef* <.< >.>

The Schaef · « **Reply #98 on:** August 06, 2009, 06:38:50 AM »

Don't look at me, I think everyone has a valid point here.

Oh wait, I'm unreasonable in discussion. What I meant to say is, everyone has aspects of their thinking that are WROOOOOONG!!!!!

Seriously, I prefer to fix the game with cards and I think doing so has generated some pretty good sets the last four years. But I also think that players traditionally have been slow in picking up counters and using them to hammer the metagame (FBN, I'm looking at you). So it's ideal, but at what point does it stop being pragmatic?

Anyway, I didn't really have a hand in the "major" changes to come down this week, they're enacted on a trial basis, and they don't affect the decks I build, so I'm content to sit back and watch the whole thing play out.

happyjosiah · « **Reply #99 on:** August 06, 2009, 08:41:31 AM »

Quote from: The Schaef on August 06, 2009, 06:38:50 AM

Oh wait, I'm unreasonable in discussion. What I meant to say is, everyone has aspects of their thinking that are WROOOOOONG!!!!!

*giggle*

Anyway, yeah this has not seemed to matter much in T1-2 player. Yesterday when playing with the new rules, I reduced my hand as much as possible pre-battle, activated gifts, went out with Hur and drew 7. When block, I was losing, so I dropped coat of many colors, Transfiguration (and didn't use it's SA), prosperity, and love at first sight all while still maintaining initiative (though I only drew 7 from the Love at First Sight). At this point I did the book of hozai, words, reach thing, basically just drawing a card to replace the one I played each time. Still drained my remaining deck in one turn just fine.

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Author Topic: Rule changes discussion (Specifically hand limit) (Read 17419 times)

TheHobbit13

The Schaef

FresnoRedemption

The Schaef