Cactus Game Design Message Boards

I dont like hand limit idea.  I think it is punishing too many good decks.  The counters to these decks should come through people playing against the strategies and not through handcuffing the "dominant Decks" through Game rules.

Gifts of the magi and the amount of drawing in Redemption is broken, thank you Rob for responding. I also like the other rules too (is there still going to be type one multi?).

Now that they've fixed the worst of the broken drawing, T1-MP may see a bit of a renaissance.

Seriously. I'm not sure if I'm running speed anymore... although to be honest, Darius' Decree and the new cards stopped me more than the 14 hand limit.

16...

Fix it with Cards not with rules.  hand limits are not the best solution.  Especially to a deck that is no where near tested enough to see if it is broken.

I don't think the reason for the rule change is whether or not a certain deck is broken.  I believe the reason behind the new hand limit rule is that there are decks possible that go against the spirit of the game.  

If fun and fellowship is the goal, it's no fun and promotes very little fellowship to have any deck play solitaire for an extended period of time while the opponent doesn't get to do anything.  There are a variety of different combo decks that use a draw engine to accomplish this goal.  I can't speak for Rob or the playtesters but I don't think their goal is to kill any deck or category of decks.  They simply want these decks to exist in a manner that encourages fun & fellowship in the game.  Limiting the draw engine might be the solution to accomplish that.

I like the rule changes, including the cap on hand size.  That's coming from someone who many would say is a "speed deck player".  Give it a chance with an open mind.  You might just find that it's a good thing.

i am all for open mindedness however i agree with crustpope

fix it with cards not rules

btw darius' decree is amazing! this is a great example of how to affect the game due to card creation.

create a new death and hades card that affects drawing limit and cant be discarded maybe?

Yeah, maybe create an Artifact that prevents your opponent from having more than 16 cards in their hand or something.

Make a fortress. That's been the answer to everything thus far.

Aocp abuse
CTB abuse
Splash Defense

Like we said, t-1 isn't affected at all. Type 2 can't abuse 5x (insert drawing card) anymore. That's about as far as it goes.

Yeah. I ran your deck and didn't ever go above 13 in hand. In fact, I can't recall ever getting to 16 with a speed deck. Probably because I never used Hur + Gifts + Love at First Sight + Coat of Many Colors all in one RA

Darn, t-1 multi is going to change. But we all loved it?

T1 MP will be affected though. A player who starts with 8, draws 3 on their turn, and 3-4 for one of the Feasts is not going to be able to rip off a Mahari/Claudia/ET combo with Words/Reach/Book/L@FS, which I think is a good thing.

I still beg to differ because of the Preparation Phase...I draw 3 (11 cards in my hand). 75% of my deck is cards that can be played in the preparation phase. All I have to do is play 4 cards (hand at 7) and go Mahari, claudia, ET play reach, words, and hozai (hand 16) and voila! I drew 9 cards, didn't have to discard any, and stayed within the rules. I guess only time will tell but just the way I am seeing it this rule will only have a minor effect on T1, namely the drawing will instead span 3 turns rather than one or two.

T2 isn't always solitaire...the only way you can possibly know with 100% certainty if you are able to rescue a LS or not on a given turn is if you know exactly what your opponent has in his hand...oh wait...

Have I ever mentioned how powerful I think U&T is? 

*Waits for Schaef*  <.< >.>

Oh wait, I'm unreasonable in discussion.  What I meant to say is, everyone has aspects of their thinking that are WROOOOOONG!!!!!

*giggle*

Anyway, yeah this has not seemed to matter much in T1-2 player. Yesterday when playing with the new rules, I reduced my hand as much as possible pre-battle, activated gifts, went out with Hur and drew 7. When block, I was losing, so I dropped coat of many colors, Transfiguration (and didn't use it's SA), prosperity, and love at first sight all while still maintaining initiative (though I only drew 7 from the Love at First Sight). At this point I did the book of hozai, words, reach thing, basically just drawing a card to replace the one I played each time. Still drained my remaining deck in one turn just fine.