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I like it - It's a nice compromise between the old trade in winnings for travel, and the new get nothing deal - (Which is completely understandable)

The only trick is that John needs those entry fees in order to regain the upfront costs of hosting a nationals. I don't have any raw numbers in front of me. But I think if he can expect 110 players (Just a number seems reasonable to me) And then if every region has a regional and does the min of 5 categories, that's 40 players. Say 30 of them make it to nationals (Probably high, but compensates for the potentionally low origin number, if each region does all 7 categories this number is probably reasonable) That's 30 5$ entry fee's that John just missed out on - Booster and Sealed are worse - And that's where the bulk of the cost comes from for John. I don't know if John needed to pay anything out to secur the use of his church, but the hosting fee to Rob for nationals is not cheap either. (I think 180... I haven't read the tourney guide in a while)

So, if 110 players come, lets assume that it averages out to 3 categories a person - (Some come for just one, some play all 4 etc) that's 330 entry fee's - Then hack off 30 of those 150 from 1500 is 10% of his gross net.

We are paying a lot more than $5 to go to Nationals (which is really low compared to other nationals that I can remmeber). To me it doesn't make a huge differance if somebody docks $5 off their expenses. I think it would be better for John to just get the money since he is hosting the tournament.

How many regional winners will be attending nationals, and playing in what they won? If it was just open categories then I think John is not losing that much money due to a lot of winners not being able to attend nationals. There is 8 regions. 5 open categories now, so 40 free entrees. If each is 5 dollars that's a total of $200. BUT, of those 40 free entrees, how many would actually make it? It's in Boston, so you can knock out most of the west coast, which would be 30 free entrees, and now at $150 which is John is missing out on. I honestly think maybe 2-3 regional winners come from far away, such as southern states to Boston, and vice-versa, so if you want to do a fair guess of how many regional winners are actually planning nationals I think you should count the majority of Northeastern, I would count 4 from Northeastern, 3 from Midwest, 2 from Southeast, 2 from East Central, 2 from South Central, 5 from North Central. That seems like a fair estimate, and add them up and you get 23 free entrees, which is $115, yes John could definitely use that and I can see why he would not even acknowledge this, but I think it is a very fair prize for regional winners.

all open categories are essentially free at .01.  Unless you are talking about a discount to the 3 day, $25 charge.  There will be a larger loss if you give Booster and Sealed a financial break.

However, what's not taken into effect here, is that John is also missing out on the opportunity cost of selling said packs - another $13.10 per entrant - So now we have $1300 dollars that John misses out on there.

Suddenly that $150 he gave up starts looking pretty good - additionally we don't know if John is taking on any other costs.

Sounds like someone has been paying attention in Economics class.    You are making all social studies teachers everywere beam with pride!

Quote from: Red Dragon Thorn on June 27, 2010, 02:22:20 PM

However, what's not taken into effect here, is that John is also missing out on the opportunity cost of selling said packs - another $13.10 per entrant - So now we have $1300 dollars that John misses out on there.

Suddenly that $150 he gave up starts looking pretty good - additionally we don't know if John is taking on any other costs.

Sounds like someone has been paying attention in Economics class.    You are making all social studies teachers everywere beam with pride!

Well I am a Social Science Major with an emphasis on Economics and Politics.......

When it was $75 was back before the prize pack change correct? How much did the packs change, and what would be the equivalent value in dollars today? - Take that, and then you have a ball-park of what it would be in ideal situations, then assume a non-ideal situation and take a number. Personally I think $5 or even $10 would be a good number to pick.

What if the Regional hosts offered to pay this bonus themselves--or agreed to split the difference with Cactus/the folks putting on Nationals?

Why would a regionals host give money to whoever won? I am not seeing your point.

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What if the Regional hosts offered to pay this bonus themselves--or agreed to split the difference with Cactus/the folks putting on Nationals?

Why would a regionals host give money to whoever won? I am not seeing your point.

Why would the Nationals host let regional winners in for free?

Both the Region and Nationals benefit by having the regional winners in attendance--Nationals by bumping the competition level and the Region by having their best players in attendance as representatives. There is also the factor of rewarding players for having played well, which I would think Regional hosts would have as much interest in doing as would the Nationals host.

I lost $5,000 hosting the tournament, due largely to a problem with the contract I signed with the hotel, but two things to take away from that is that a). even if the contract had been done right, they still would have offered me a rate above what I took in for the weekend and b). if a person can host at a church willing to lend the space, that's a huge boon, but the cost to rent any space - including a church but especially a hotel ballroom - is a huge undertaking by the host.

That is very sad, but that is nothing normal at all compared to previous nationals.

Why would the Nationals host let regional winners in for free?

Because...

Both the Region and Nationals benefit by having the regional winners in attendance--Nationals by bumping the competition level and the Region by having their best players in attendance as representatives. There is also the factor of rewarding players for having played well, which I would think Regional hosts would have as much interest in doing as would the Nationals host.

It seems to me that an easier way to do this would be for all Regionals to give prizes in Redemption Cash.  Then have the Nationals host accept Redemption Cash from Regional winners to cover tournament fees.  The Regional winners will then be able to play without paying any money.  And the National host will be able to use the Redemption Cash to cover future tournaments that they host, so it will be the same as money to them.

What do you guys think?

It seems to me that an easier way to do this would be for all Regionals to give prizes in Redemption Cash.  Then have the Nationals host accept Redemption Cash from Regional winners to cover tournament fees.  The Regional winners will then be able to play without paying any money.  And the National host will be able to use the Redemption Cash to cover future tournaments that they host, so it will be the same as money to them.

What do you guys think?

Not to be a wet blanket, but requiring hosts to accept Redemption Cash for tournament fees is not a viable idea. You may as well say they have to allow the players to attend free in terms of having the hosts cover the costs of hosting.

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Why would the Nationals host let regional winners in for free?

Because...

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Both the Region and Nationals benefit by having the regional winners in attendance--Nationals by bumping the competition level and the Region by having their best players in attendance as representatives. There is also the factor of rewarding players for having played well, which I would think Regional hosts would have as much interest in doing as would the Nationals host.

Good. It is nice to see that you understand why Regionals hosts should also help pay for winners to go to Nats.

Not to be a wet blanket, but requiring hosts to accept Redemption Cash for tournament fees is not a viable idea. You may as well say they have to allow the players to attend free in terms of having the hosts cover the costs of hosting.

Jaybee... just stop. Start thinking please. How can you say you may as well allow players to attend free? What in the world, talk about taking a quote out of context. We are talking about REGIONAL WINNERS getting in for free, not just any players. Everyone so far has agreed that something needs to be done, yet you keep bringing up points that are not too relevant to the topic. Yes they somewhat touch on the topic, but it is not really anything constructive. All of us agree something needs to be done, so bring up points that help us all think of a possible solution to the problem, or simply don't post anything. Quoting me at the end and saying something sarcastic does not help in any which way just FYI. I am not trying to sound mean or bash on you, I am trying to get my point across, and I think all of us on here and moving in the same direction but you. So that is all I want to say about your last post.
Back on topic. How about just 2 player open categories get a free entry into the category which they won? Now you have 8 regions, 2 winners from each. That is 16 free entrees, which if it's 5 dollar fee per entry, the host is only "losing", 80 dollars. That is IF ALL the regional winners attend. I did not do research because I am too lazy, but what was the past nationals average of regional winners in attendance? I know it depends on location, but a good estimate would be of the 16 2 player open category winners, only half or so would be able to make it. That is only 40 dollars! What do you guys think about that? Either way if I ever host, all regional open category winners will not have to pay for their event that they won.