Author Topic: Redemption Game day (Read 14574 times)

COUNTER_SNIPER · « **Reply #25 on:** May 19, 2010, 11:35:37 PM »

Quote from: Rawrlolsauce! on May 19, 2010, 11:10:34 PM

There are Magicians and Magical Charms in redemption.

I didn't write the post and it wasn't my decision, but I agree with it.

Mr.Hiatus · « **Reply #26 on:** May 19, 2010, 11:41:23 PM »

He called the players of the game, satan followers practically... that is in no way promotion.

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #27 on:** May 20, 2010, 12:42:44 AM »

Quote from: Mr.Hiatus on May 19, 2010, 11:41:23 PM

He called the players of the game, satan followers practically... that is in no way promotion.

But other forum members are defending MTG, which IS in a way promotion.

I personally don't think that all MTG players are Satan's forces. However, I would say that it would be best for Christians to not play that game, and that the Christians on this forum who do are making a poor decision in that regard. I know I won't win any popularity points with this post, but I really do believe that playing MTG will hurt your witness and is likely to be a stumbling block to others.

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #28 on:** May 20, 2010, 12:44:55 AM »

- 9001 popularity points for suggesting that we be responsible christians.

That's over 9000

Master KChief · « **Reply #29 on:** May 20, 2010, 12:49:21 AM »

less than 0%!!!1!1!!!!1!111!!

but seriously, playing mtg is no different than playing lotr. many connatate 'magical' elements to both, yet you see no one harping on lotr. mtg is simply a game to 99.9% of players, not a tool for strengthening 'satans army'. and in 99.9% of cases involving christians condemning mtg, they're entirely ignorant to what the game entails. not exactly making a strong case just by simply pointing at a product and saying its 'bad'.

Mr.Hiatus · « **Reply #30 on:** May 20, 2010, 01:06:13 AM »

Quote

But other forum members are defending MTG, which IS in a way promotion.

I am defending players of MTG by saying they are not Satan worshippers. That is not defending MTG. LotR, which is WIDELY ADORED on this forum, could make a strong argument for having more magic themes in it, yet as MKchief said, no one is harping on them. All I am saying, is that MTG is simply a card game, it is not a tool of the devil, and in no way is it a sinful game. It is just a hobby, nothing else. IMO...

COUNTER_SNIPER · « **Reply #31 on:** May 20, 2010, 02:23:10 AM »

Hmm, any game that suggests that using/wielding sorcery AS A GOOD THING is not something that I would think God would be too pleased about. By no means am I condemning those that play MTG, but it has no place with Redemption. The Bible warns of sorcery and witchcraft and I can only suggest that those of you who do divulge in MTG be wary. You may see it as a card game, and as a Christian it is just that, but, when it comes to unsaved persons, anything that is not of God is an access point for evil; whether it be movies, a card game, television, etc... The way many of these games are created lie in roots that go far deeper than you may imagine. Play the game if you wish, but listen closely to the Holy Spirit. MTG may be just a card game, but sorcery is not a joke and is not something to be taken lightly. God forgives all is true, but that doesn't give any of us a right to do anything that does not glorify Him. I am not perfect and I am not casting any judgment, I have many faults of my own that I must answer to God about, but I'm doing my best to correct my wrongdoings.

-C_S

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #32 on:** May 20, 2010, 02:25:06 AM »

Simon the Magician and his charms say hi.

COUNTER_SNIPER · « **Reply #33 on:** May 20, 2010, 02:43:53 AM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on May 20, 2010, 02:25:06 AM

Simon the Magician and his charms say hi.

I will correct my statement with my original intent which was to say: Using/wielding sorcery AS A GOOD THING. Redemption places magic/sorcery as evil.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #34 on:** May 20, 2010, 02:46:17 AM »

Gandalf says hi.

COUNTER_SNIPER · « **Reply #35 on:** May 20, 2010, 02:49:59 AM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on May 20, 2010, 02:46:17 AM

Gandalf says hi.

I don't personally agree with LoTR either. While I understand certain parts of it were supposed to represent Christian elements, it slightly offends me that they would have Jesus be represented by a sorcerer, but that's just me and to my knowledge, non-Christians were heavily involved in the making of the movie and free speech abounds in the US.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #36 on:** May 20, 2010, 02:58:33 AM »

Gandalf isn't Jesus, he's an Angel.

COUNTER_SNIPER · « **Reply #37 on:** May 20, 2010, 03:05:17 AM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on May 20, 2010, 02:58:33 AM

Gandalf isn't Jesus, he's an Angel.

Hm, well either way, the series doesn't sit well with me. It seems more like an entertainment series to me rather than something that glorifies God. And the confusion with my thoughts of Gandalf being Jesus was because my memory failed. I THOUGHT Gandalf the Gray supposedly died and came back as Gandalf the White, but now my memory serves me correctly, he didn't die, he just climbed out of the hole. The significance of gray to white escapes me because at the time I watched strictly for entertainment and not because of the religious connotations associated with it.

Master KChief · « **Reply #38 on:** May 20, 2010, 04:07:25 AM »

there is a difference between practicing sorcery and casting magic missiles on bugbears...and a piece of cardboard. 'nuff said.

disciple_drew · « **Reply #39 on:** May 20, 2010, 07:28:57 AM »

Quote from: Master KChief on May 20, 2010, 04:07:25 AM

there is a difference between practicing sorcery and casting magic missiles on bugbears...and a piece of cardboard. 'nuff said.

Just like there is a different between a lifestyle of sin and an act of sin. They're not the same thing. The Bible repeatedly forbids witchcraft and sorcery. Just because it's in the Bible doesn't mean that it's ok. A lot of things are recorded in the Bible, but that's what the Bible is also... a Historical Document.

God's Grace sustains us and He'll give grace to those who'll need it. He won't reap judgment where He hasn't sown knowledge. But God's people parish for a lack of knowledge. I used to be an MTG player myself for many years and from personal experience it was a stumbling block. Sad thing is I got a lot of my friends involved in it and they're still addicted to it.

Just because it's a game on paper doesn't mean it's harmless, there are spirits that are involved. Response to spiritual influence creates atmosphere. It just sounds like the enemy has successfully deceived another person. MTG, D&D, YuGiOh are all inspirational forms of witchcraft & sorcery. Just because they're not actually sacrificing goats & chickens, cutting their wrists and doing enchantments doesn't mean they're revealing what's inside their hearts. People will emphasize what's important to them, what they value. What's inside you comes out of you. If you're impressed and interested in MTG, you'll play it. By doing so you're supporting the idea of witchcraft and sorcery.

God is a jealous God and He doesn't rival anything else. Mind you a god is anything you draw your strength or your substance from. A lot of MTG players play the game ritually, habitually, a lot of the time. Because they gain substance from it. It brings them joy, pleasure, and so on. But God is supposed to fulfill that... not some occultic game.

Master KChief · « **Reply #40 on:** May 20, 2010, 07:35:37 AM »

its amazing how people can attach witchcraft, sorcery, spirits to the game...yet provide no proof whatsoever. i also find it highly ironic redemption blatantly sports 58475893794% more satanic material than mtg...yet mtg is the satanic game.

Red · « **Reply #41 on:** May 20, 2010, 08:17:25 AM »

Yes I don't like MTG but i don't like you calling my cousin and uncle(Both are christans btw) "satan's forces". And btw Aslan says hi.

Korunks · « **Reply #42 on:** May 20, 2010, 08:47:33 AM »

AS a former MTG player and a Redemption player I feel I must say something. MTG has a fundamental bent towards sorcery and the occult. The game's rulebook states that you take on the role of a planeswalker(basically an elite sorcerer) and using energy from the land or constructs (artifacts etc.)you cast spells and summon creatures to do your bidding. Many of those are at least demonic looking. To compare that to Redemption portraying magicians as Evil people who use demonic power and claiming Redemption is more satanic in my opinion is very unfair. Redemption allows the use of Magicians et al., Magic makes you roleplay as one.(At the very least according to the rulebook). Before I was saved I wondered about Christians who played Magic, because it seemed to me that playing this game would go against their philosophy.

Having said all of this, I realize that it is just a game. Christians who play Magic are perhaps making a poor choice, but are NOT worshiping Satan. I quit MTG because I liked Redemption better and felt better investing my cash in a card game that followed my beliefs(mostly). But I feel that comparing all MTG players to Satan's forces is not only wrong but sinful. Judging other Christians actions and behaviors are something we are not to do, or if we must admonish a brother or sister we are to do it in love. Calling them Satan's followers is not loving, this blatant over generalization of everything that does not line up to Our Christian beliefs must be satanic not only makes Christians look like fools, but damages the effectiveness of the gospel. It is one thing to pray for people who play MTG to come to know Christ, it is another to call them Satan's followers! There is actually a huge difference between doing something not good for your walk, and worshiping satan.

Red · « **Reply #43 on:** May 20, 2010, 08:51:06 AM »

Korunks=Awesome!

Master KChief · « **Reply #44 on:** May 20, 2010, 09:06:56 AM »

Quote from: Korunks on May 20, 2010, 08:47:33 AM

AS a former MTG player and a Redemption player I feel I must say something. MTG has a fundamental bent towards sorcery and the occult. The game's rulebook states that you take on the role of a planeswalker(basically an elite sorcerer) and using energy from the land or constructs (artifacts etc.)you cast spells and summon creatures to do your bidding. Many of those are at least demonic looking. To compare that to Redemption portraying magicians as Evil people who use demonic power and claiming Redemption is more satanic in my opinion is very unfair. Redemption allows the use of Magicians et al., Magic makes you roleplay as one.(At the very least according to the rulebook). Before I was saved I wondered about Christians who played Magic, because it seemed to me that playing this game would go against their philosophy.

Having said all of this, I realize that it is just a game. Christians who play Magic are perhaps making a poor choice, but are NOT worshiping Satan. I quit MTG because I liked Redemption better and felt better investing my cash in a card game that followed my beliefs(mostly). But I feel that comparing all MTG players to Satan's forces is not only wrong but sinful. Judging other Christians actions and behaviors are something we are not to do, or if we must admonish a brother or sister we are to do it in love. Calling them Satan's followers is not loving, this blatant over generalization of everything that does not line up to Our Christian beliefs must be satanic not only makes Christians look like fools, but damages the effectiveness of the gospel. It is one thing to pray for people who play MTG to come to know Christ, it is another to call them Satan's followers! There is actually a huge difference between doing something not good for your walk, and worshiping satan.

very good explanation, i just would like to point out a few things. mtg is no more roleplaying than a player in redemption is when he blocks with king of tyrus, prince of this world, red dragon, etc. do we truly believe we are satan or demons when we are using these evil characters to block rescue attempts? no. it is a fundamental part of the game. just because we are playing a part of the game does not mean we actually are these characters. on the same line of thought, i would venture to say playing with creatures in mtg is far more morally sound than playing with evil characters in redemption because mtg has a very strict policy against portraying anything blatantly satanic or even remotely related to the bible. the creatures in mtg are as much monsters as are frankenstein, dracula, werewolf, etc...purely figments of our imaginations. the closest line mtg walks is by having angels and demons in the game, but redemption has more than its fair share as well. i know many christians that play mtg, and it has not deterred them in their walk of faith, nor should they be condemned because of it. its a fantasy game with imaginary elements, bottom line.

Red · « **Reply #45 on:** May 20, 2010, 09:13:27 AM »

Still who wants to play some rts this saturday?

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #46 on:** May 20, 2010, 09:56:54 AM »

Quote from: Master KChief on May 20, 2010, 09:06:56 AM

mtg is no more roleplaying than a player in redemption is when he blocks with king of tyrus, prince of this world, red dragon, etc.

This is not true from what I understand about MTG. In Redemption you block with KoT or whoever, and if they lose the battle, then they die (are discarded), but you as a person are not actually involved. In MTG you have a certain number of personal life points, and if you lose battles you lose life points. Your opponent wins at the point where you run out of life points and "die". This is a very different feel of a game. Instead of it being my GCs attacking your ECs, it becomes I am attacking You. Therefore in MTG, there is innately more "roleplaying" than there is in Redemption.

Korunks · « **Reply #47 on:** May 20, 2010, 10:00:17 AM »

Quote

very good explanation, i just would like to point out a few things. mtg is no more roleplaying than a player in redemption is when he blocks with king of tyrus, prince of this world, red dragon, etc. do we truly believe we are satan or demons when we are using these evil characters to block rescue attempts?

A good point. What I was trying to say that according to the Rulebook you were playing the part of a planeswalker. I know many players don't even pay attention to this detail of the game(I know I didn't). However it is in the rulebook so at least on paper MTG has you play as a wizard. Also to the point that Prof mentioned above there are certain inherent role play attributes of the game.

Quote

i would venture to say playing with creatures in mtg is far more morally sound than playing with evil characters in redemption because mtg has a very strict policy against portraying anything blatantly satanic or even remotely related to the bible. the creatures in mtg are as much monsters as are frankenstein, dracula, werewolf, etc...purely figments of our imaginations. the closest line mtg walks is by having angels and demons in the game, but redemption has more than its fair share as well.

I left MTG years ago so their stance may be different then when I played. But I remember cards like Wrath of God which kills all creatures, good and evil alike. And there were several demonic cards in the original sets(Demonic Tutor pops into mind). Now I might agree with you in the case of maybe the Blue or Green Creatures. But especially in the early sets black had a lot of Demonic cards, and cards that revolved around necromancy which actually does slightly encroach on the bible(story of the witch at endor, to name one). Now I can only speak to my experiences in early MTG so if this has changed, than good.

Quote

i know many christians that play mtg, and it has not deterred them in their walk of faith, nor should they be condemned because of it. its a fantasy game with imaginary elements, bottom line.

True but there are elements that aren't good for christians to view. There are many cards with characters dressed bordering on nudity, gore, Evil creatures feasting on others(blood included), and some other disturbing images. I know redemption has a few cards with women of questionable dress(Bathsheba, Jezebel, Whore of Babylon why do we even have those cards?). But I do not know of any redemption cards with gore or that level of dark artwork. I know that these are imaginary creatures but those dark images are not necessarily good for Christians to fill their mind with. The Bible says we should focus on holy, spiritual, and good things, I would say these are not any of the above. Is it a sin?, thats between you and God. I would hesitate to say that it does not matter because it isn't real. The creatures depicted are not, but the feelings and mind set it can create are. But again I am not saying anyone should be condemned for playing, but should definitely evaluate whether they should play( how the images and game play affect you vary from individual to individual), than how they should play, and what colors and cards they should play. I hope that helped clarify my answers.

Master KChief · « **Reply #48 on:** May 20, 2010, 10:19:14 AM »

Quote from: Prof Underwood on May 20, 2010, 09:56:54 AM

Quote from: Master KChief on May 20, 2010, 09:06:56 AM
mtg is no more roleplaying than a player in redemption is when he blocks with king of tyrus, prince of this world, red dragon, etc.
This is not true from what I understand about MTG. In Redemption you block with KoT or whoever, and if they lose the battle, then they die (are discarded), but you as a person are not actually involved. In MTG you have a certain number of personal life points, and if you lose battles you lose life points. Your opponent wins at the point where you run out of life points and "die". This is a very different feel of a game. Instead of it being my GCs attacking your ECs, it becomes I am attacking You. Therefore in MTG, there is innately more "roleplaying" than there is in Redemption.

im surprised you would try to rationalize away the glaring similiarities between both games. to win in mtg, you must deduct points from your opponent. to win in redemption, you must gain points from your opponent. its exactly the same thing mind the point totals going in opposite directions. mtg has creatures to attempt to deduct points from the opponent. redemption has heroes to try to gain points from the opponent. mtg has creatures to block your opponent from deducting points from you. redemption has ec's to block your opponent from gaining points from you. to say mtg involves more roleplaying than redemption is a blinding oversight, because both games win mechanics operate almost exactly the same.

Korunks · « **Reply #49 on:** May 20, 2010, 10:44:58 AM »

Quote

im surprised you would try to rationalize away the glaring similiarities between both games. to win in mtg, you must deduct points from your opponent. to win in redemption, you must gain points from your opponent. its exactly the same thing mind the point totals going in opposite directions. mtg has creatures to attempt to deduct points from the opponent. redemption has heroes to try to gain points from the opponent. mtg has creatures to block your opponent from deducting points from you. redemption has ec's to block your opponent from gaining points from you. to say mtg involves more roleplaying than redemption is a blinding oversight, because both games win mechanics operate almost exactly the same.

Game point mechanics aside, the fact that is in Redemption you are not attacking your opponent directly but attempting to rescue lost souls. In MTG you are dealing Damage to your opponent, In redemption your are leading souls to redemption. Similar Mechanics yes, similar reasoning? Not by a long shot.

News:

Author Topic: Redemption Game day (Read 14574 times)