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Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Playgroup and Tournament Central => Redemption® Official Tournaments => Topic started by: LordZardeck on July 21, 2011, 07:32:11 PM

Title: Redemption Connect! Tournaments Idea: NEED RESPONSES
Post by: LordZardeck on July 21, 2011, 07:32:11 PM
(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fredemptionconnect.com%2Fimg%2Fsilverlogomini.png&hash=a9ba2ccfbb6a7f099db2f2ca184626a0b8fbc7ab)
Redemption Connect! Tournaments Proposal

Black Fire Development's end goal in the Redemption Connect! project is to create a centralized site to simplify the acquisition of information for Redemption players. Our initial thought was to create a easy-to-use card database system that allowed users to find and organize cards in their collections and decks. While this is a major advancement for the Redemption Community, we feel Redemption Connect! can be much more than simply a card database.

Our target has now moved from simply the game itself, but to the players. Our first plan is to create a robust Tournament tracking system. Let me explain what this entails:

1)    The Tournament tracking system incorporates all types of games and all type of Tournaments ranging form Local to National, even Online.
2)    The Tournament tracking system keeps track of the RNRS and post the Leaders using a self-updating dynamic system.
3)    Players will be able to link their Redemption Connect! accounts to their tournament games, allowing them to create a badge showing their ranking among other players anywhere on the web. Badges could look like this (just ideas, to get a mental picture):

(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fredemptionconnect.com%2Fwebroot%2Fimg%2FBanners%2Fbadge1.jpg&hash=ce63ac0f2dba1492f1180e42846651cbdb6b2991)(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fredemptionconnect.com%2Fwebroot%2Fimg%2FBanners%2Fbadge3kevin.jpg&hash=ea428b4a66b9c1e81bd6c6b6c292d32411956b9e)

4)    Players will be able to easily find all registered tournaments based on location or tournament type, even down to game type.
5)    Tournament hosts will be able to post updates, pictures, and videos for their tournaments and link their playgroup to their tournaments.
6)    Facebook integration so players can "like" and comment on Tournaments.

Although those are the only features I've listed, I believe in always trying to find better ways of doing things, and always trying to find new features to add.

From what I've observed on the message boards and the Redemption website, the Tournament services offered are extremely basic, and lack in functionality. There is no effective approach to finding Tournaments nor to sharing these events with others. The system works in the sense that it displays Tournament information for others to see, but offers nothing else.

If you, the Redemption community would like to see something like this implemented, please comment below with yes/no. You may also share below if you have more/different features you'd like to see for Tournaments. If you have other ideas you'd like to see for the redemption community, comment on our main thread (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/deck-building-and-design/redemption-connect!/).
Title: Re: Redemption Connect! Tournaments Idea: NEED RESPONSES
Post by: cookie monster on July 21, 2011, 07:41:50 PM
this is a good idea! I would like to see this idea happen :o
Title: Re: Redemption Connect! Tournaments Idea: NEED RESPONSES
Post by: STAMP on July 21, 2011, 07:47:27 PM
Good ideas!  Proactive volunteers such as yourself are a boon to the Redemption community.  :)
Title: Re: Redemption Connect! Tournaments Idea: NEED RESPONSES
Post by: TheHobbit13 on July 21, 2011, 08:09:23 PM
I like it. Although, I don't know how I feel about the player card though it might do more harm then good. You should talk with the Delarosa's, they have a really good redemption webmazine site. Maybe you can work with them.
Title: Re: Redemption Connect! Tournaments Idea: NEED RESPONSES
Post by: LordZardeck on July 21, 2011, 08:19:20 PM
Quote from: TheHobbit13 on July 21, 2011, 08:09:23 PM
I like it. Although, I don't know how I feel about the player card though it might do more harm then good. You should talk with the Delarosa's, they have a really good redemption webmazine site. Maybe you can work with them.

Link maybe?
Title: Re: Redemption Connect! Tournaments Idea: NEED RESPONSES
Post by: SomeKittens on July 21, 2011, 08:56:05 PM
What's wrong with the player card?  I really like the idea.
Title: Re: Redemption Connect! Tournaments Idea: NEED RESPONSES
Post by: Ken4Christ4ever on July 21, 2011, 09:29:53 PM
I think it would be great if the RNRS points were more of an interactive thing, rather than just the grid that they are now! I'm not visually-creative enough to think of something like this, but I think it would be pretty neat!
Title: Re: Redemption Connect! Tournaments Idea: NEED RESPONSES
Post by: SomeKittens on July 21, 2011, 09:38:14 PM
It would be a lot easier for tournament hosts to be able to submit RNRS electronically.
Title: Re: Redemption Connect! Tournaments Idea: NEED RESPONSES
Post by: TheHobbit13 on July 21, 2011, 10:11:05 PM
Quote from: SomeKittens on July 21, 2011, 08:56:05 PM
What's wrong with the player card?  I really like the idea.

It is just that, not that his idea isn't good it's really good, for some time now redemption has not been about stats, it has been about fellowship. Sure there is RNRS but most people don't get to worked up about it because its on some far away spreadsheet. The score card makes the stats really undeniable and if everyone isn't humble about it feelings will be hurt.
Besides, the reality is, the good players know that they are good  and the "bad" players don't need a constant reminder that they are bad.
Title: Re: Redemption Connect! Tournaments Idea: NEED RESPONSES
Post by: Prof Underwood on July 21, 2011, 10:51:17 PM
Quote from: TheHobbit13 on July 21, 2011, 10:11:05 PM
for some time now redemption has not been about stats, it has been about fellowship. Sure there is RNRS but most people don't get to worked up about it because its on some far away spreadsheet. The score card makes the stats really undeniable and if everyone isn't humble about it feelings will be hurt.
Besides, the reality is, the good players know that they are good  and the "bad" players don't need a constant reminder that they are bad.
I agree with this.  Redemption has traditionally been about "fun and fellowship".  I think that having stats be displayed so prominently could alter that focus in a negative way.

As for the overall idea, I like many of the other parts.  However, I would recommend that you bite off 1 thing at a time rather than try to do the whole ball of wax.  Just add 1 thing, and let people start using that, then add another as you get more time.  This helps prevent situations like Duke Nukem Forever (which is finally out), the new REG (which isn't), the new Redemption Live (which isn't), etc.
Title: Re: Redemption Connect! Tournaments Idea: NEED RESPONSES
Post by: LordZardeck on July 30, 2011, 12:57:36 PM
Alright, we need 30 votes before we submit this to Cactus Game Design. If you want to see this happen, click the plus sign on the first post to vote.
Title: Re: Redemption Connect! Tournaments Idea: NEED RESPONSES
Post by: Alex_Olijar on July 30, 2011, 01:00:10 PM
What?
Title: Re: Redemption Connect! Tournaments Idea: NEED RESPONSES
Post by: LordZardeck on July 30, 2011, 01:06:26 PM
Quote from: Alex_Olijar on July 30, 2011, 01:00:10 PM
What?

Next to the quote link on the first post
Title: Re: Redemption Connect! Tournaments Idea: NEED RESPONSES
Post by: Alex_Olijar on July 30, 2011, 01:14:50 PM
Why?
Title: Re: Redemption Connect! Tournaments Idea: NEED RESPONSES
Post by: LordZardeck on July 30, 2011, 01:20:30 PM
Quote from: Alex_Olijar on July 30, 2011, 01:14:50 PM
Why?

To show that people do want this feature.
Title: Re: Redemption Connect! Tournaments Idea: NEED RESPONSES
Post by: Alex_Olijar on July 30, 2011, 01:25:21 PM
Quote from: LordZardeck on July 30, 2011, 01:20:30 PM
Quote from: Alex_Olijar on July 30, 2011, 01:14:50 PM
Why?

To show that people do want this feature.

This is a flawed voting system because of the minus feature. Also, I don't understand what you are submitting to CGD... actually, I don't really understand this project at all. Is this something you want to do or something the community wants you to do? It's really tough to tell right now.
Title: Re: Redemption Connect! Tournaments Idea: NEED RESPONSES
Post by: LordZardeck on July 30, 2011, 01:31:54 PM
Quote from: Alex_Olijar on July 30, 2011, 01:25:21 PM
Quote from: LordZardeck on July 30, 2011, 01:20:30 PM
Quote from: Alex_Olijar on July 30, 2011, 01:14:50 PM
Why?

To show that people do want this feature.

This is a flawed voting system because of the minus feature. Also, I don't understand what you are submitting to CGD... actually, I don't really understand this project at all. Is this something you want to do or something the community wants you to do? It's really tough to tell right now.

It is something that I want to do, that I hope the community wants to do (hence the voting: so I can tell), and that requires cooperation from CGD.
Title: Re: Redemption Connect! Tournaments Idea: NEED RESPONSES
Post by: Alex_Olijar on July 30, 2011, 01:35:10 PM
Having a number like that is kind of pretty arbitrary. For one, I'd be willing to bet there's only 30-50 consistantly active users on this board, so you'd have to get almost all of them to up you. Also, if I don't like the idea, I can minus your post, and suddenly now you need an extra person to up it.

If you want to do it, just do it. You have received positive feedback. For all you know, CGD might just say no (I'm still not entirely sure you'd need CGD to cooperate... you could easily implement all features with any host willing to participate). Just go for it if you want to do it.
Title: Re: Redemption Connect! Tournaments Idea: NEED RESPONSES
Post by: LordZardeck on July 30, 2011, 01:46:07 PM
Quote from: Alex_Olijar on July 30, 2011, 01:35:10 PM
Having a number like that is kind of pretty arbitrary. For one, I'd be willing to bet there's only 30-50 consistantly active users on this board, so you'd have to get almost all of them to up you.
I understand this, but it is necessarily. See Below.
Quote from: Alex_Olijar on July 30, 2011, 01:35:10 PM
If you want to do it, just do it. You have received positive feedback. For all you know, CGD might just say no (I'm still not entirely sure you'd need CGD to cooperate... you could easily implement all features with any host willing to participate). Just go for it if you want to do it.

Actually, this requires CGD, and they have already said "no". Rob said that the community has not shown a desire to change the current Tournament system, so he does not feel it is worth the time (paraphrasing. He said it much nicer). That is the reason for this post. To determine whether or not the community shows a strong desire for a new Tournament system.
Title: Re: Redemption Connect! Tournaments Idea: NEED RESPONSES
Post by: Alex_Olijar on July 30, 2011, 01:48:08 PM
I wasn't under the impression you were changing anything. You could easily still do most of this via data mining anyway.
Title: Re: Redemption Connect! Tournaments Idea: NEED RESPONSES
Post by: LordZardeck on July 30, 2011, 02:08:06 PM
Quote from: Alex_Olijar on July 30, 2011, 01:48:08 PM
I wasn't under the impression you were changing anything. You could easily still do most of this via data mining anyway.

If I tried data mining, and Redemption Tournaments became popular, then Cactus Game Design would feel that what has been accomplished is good enough and that they don't need to be involved. Then most of the great features that would make Redemption Tournaments amazing would never be able to happen.
Title: Re: Redemption Connect! Tournaments Idea: NEED RESPONSES
Post by: Prof Underwood on August 01, 2011, 10:03:53 AM
Quote from: LordZardeck on July 30, 2011, 02:08:06 PM
Quote from: Alex_Olijar on July 30, 2011, 01:48:08 PM
I wasn't under the impression you were changing anything. You could easily still do most of this via data mining anyway.
If I tried data mining, and Redemption Tournaments became popular, then Cactus Game Design would feel that what has been accomplished is good enough and that they don't need to be involved. Then most of the great features that would make Redemption Tournaments amazing would never be able to happen.
The way that Online Redemption became official was that Soul Seeker started an unofficial online tournament and ran it for about 6 months with steady participation and a decent number of people enjoying the opportunity.  At that point, I was able to approach Rob with a proven system, and a solid plan for leadership and prize support.

The way TEAMS became official was a similar story.  I had created a game a long time ago what had a format similar to TEAMS, and it was a LOT of fun.  So I started playing it sometimes with my own playgroup.  Then we expanded it to the Regional level, still working out some of the kinks.  Then I ran an unofficial category of it in the evening at Nats a few years ago, and it had the 2nd highest participation of any of the events there.  Then Mike ran it unofficially again at Nats in California with great success.  After all of this we were able to come to Rob with a proven system, and he was willing to make it an official category.

I would suggest that you do the same thing here.  Instead of suggesting to Rob to scrap the current RNRS tournament system that's been going for almost a decade, in order to implement this new idea of yours that hasn't ever been tried yet....how about if you actually go ahead and try some of this first.  Set up your website that automatically updates RNRS points when hosts post tournament results there.  If you can get that to work, I KNOW that Rob would appreciate not having to do all that by hand anymore.  Then implement the ability to add pictures and connect to Facebook.  See if you can get hosts to do that as well.  I know that the DeLarosa's down in Florida have had a hard time getting hosts to contribute stuff like that for there webzine, but maybe your site will be more successful.

My point is that you should go ahead and set this up separate from the current system and work all the kinks out of the system.  Make sure that the community (read: hosts) will support the new system by contributing the content necessary.  THEN go to Rob with a proven system and see what he says.  Just getting 30 +'s on a thread post would NOT be convincing to me, and I doubt it would be to Rob either.
Title: Re: Redemption Connect! Tournaments Idea: NEED RESPONSES
Post by: cookie monster on August 09, 2011, 02:49:25 PM
I voted! Hope it works, it is a very good odea ;)
Title: Re: Redemption Connect! Tournaments Idea: NEED RESPONSES
Post by: EmJayBee83 on August 09, 2011, 11:19:28 PM
I tend to agree with Prof Underwood and SomeKittens that and electronic results submission system is something that would be a great first step.  It would alleviate paper work for both Cactus and the hosts. Also--trivially simple to do--although with some possible fun coding bits (like "almost" name matching).

FWIW if you would be interested I would be willing to donate the code I wrote to player calculate rankings (similar to chess or XBox live rankings) for the online tourney, and bits and pieces of a Swiss style tournament tracking web app with some ajax crunchiness (i.e., a result ticker similar to what you see for sports).  I had originally hoped to release an actual web app in time for Nats this year--but I never had time to actually put all the bits and pieces together and package things up.

Oooops.  Thinking about it a bit , you probably would be way better off having me spend some time doing the integration bits and pieces myself.  If you would be willing to do all of the infrastructure work (e.g., stuff like player logins) and give me a framework to write against, I should have time to add any of these features in.

Let me know.
Title: Re: Redemption Connect! Tournaments Idea: NEED RESPONSES
Post by: SomeKittens on August 15, 2011, 12:28:48 AM
What language are we talking?
Title: Re: Redemption Connect! Tournaments Idea: NEED RESPONSES
Post by: EmJayBee83 on August 15, 2011, 12:42:47 AM
For my stuff?
Title: Re: Redemption Connect! Tournaments Idea: NEED RESPONSES
Post by: SomeKittens on August 15, 2011, 12:52:02 AM
For whatever you need.  I'd be willing to help, but I'm only a freshman CS student-not too useful.
Title: Re: Redemption Connect! Tournaments Idea: NEED RESPONSES
Post by: lp670sv on August 15, 2011, 12:53:40 AM
Quote from: SomeKittens on August 15, 2011, 12:52:02 AM
For whatever you need.  I'd be willing to help, but I'm only a freshman CS student-not too useful.

You're a sophomore now kid...
Title: Re: Redemption Connect! Tournaments Idea: NEED RESPONSES
Post by: Alex_Olijar on August 15, 2011, 12:55:46 AM
Quote from: SomeKittens on August 15, 2011, 12:52:02 AM
For whatever you need.  I'd be willing to help, but I'm only a freshman CS student-not too useful.

It's ok, Matt is great at TEAMS with people not too useful - right Craig? ;).
Title: Re: Redemption Connect! Tournaments Idea: NEED RESPONSES
Post by: SomeKittens on August 15, 2011, 01:02:10 AM
Quote from: lp670sv on August 15, 2011, 12:53:40 AM
Quote from: SomeKittens on August 15, 2011, 12:52:02 AM
For whatever you need.  I'd be willing to help, but I'm only a freshman CS student-not too useful.
You're a sophomore now kid...
Credit-wise, yes, but I'm still a Freshman on the CS track.

Quote from: Alex_Olijar on August 15, 2011, 12:55:46 AM
Quote from: SomeKittens on August 15, 2011, 12:52:02 AM
For whatever you need.  I'd be willing to help, but I'm only a freshman CS student-not too useful.
It's ok, Matt is great at TEAMS with people not too useful - right Craig? ;).
Here's hoping Matt'll deal with young farts along with the old ones.
Title: Re: Redemption Connect! Tournaments Idea: NEED RESPONSES
Post by: EmJayBee83 on August 15, 2011, 01:21:54 AM
Quote from: SomeKittens on August 15, 2011, 12:52:02 AM
For whatever you need.  I'd be willing to help, but I'm only a freshman CS student-not too useful.
What languages/tools are you comfortable with?
Title: Re: Redemption Connect! Tournaments Idea: NEED RESPONSES
Post by: SomeKittens on August 15, 2011, 01:24:13 AM
Primarily Java, using JGrasp and NetBeans.  I've also taken classes in C++ and Python.
Title: Re: Redemption Connect! Tournaments Idea: NEED RESPONSES
Post by: lp670sv on August 15, 2011, 01:32:34 AM
Quote from: SomeKittens on August 15, 2011, 01:24:13 AM
Primarily Java, using JGrasp and NetBeans.  I've also taken classes in C++ and Python.

I can add Visual Basic to this, though that adds about as much as infinity + 1
Title: Re: Redemption Connect! Tournaments Idea: NEED RESPONSES
Post by: EmJayBee83 on August 15, 2011, 02:07:07 AM
I do have a project to work on, and help would be appreciated.

@SomeKittens: If I don't get back to you by Wednesday or Thursday on this can you send me a PM and remind me (I am getting old and forgetful).

@lp670sv:  I am not sure if you mean you have Java/C++/Python/VB or if you meant strictly VB.
Title: Re: Redemption Connect! Tournaments Idea: NEED RESPONSES
Post by: lp670sv on August 15, 2011, 07:41:47 AM
Quote from: EmJayBee83 on August 15, 2011, 02:07:07 AM
I do have a project to work on, and help would be appreciated.

@SomeKittens: If I don't get back to you by Wednesday or Thursday on this can you send me a PM and remind me (I am getting old and forgetful).

@lp670sv:  I am not sure if you mean you have Java/C++/Python/VB or if you meant strictly VB.

Python and VB extensively, minimum experience with Java and C++. Just started with them. Won't get in to either very much until at least next semester
Title: Re: Redemption Connect! Tournaments Idea: NEED RESPONSES
Post by: LordZardeck on August 15, 2011, 12:15:48 PM
Quote from: EmJayBee83 on August 09, 2011, 11:19:28 PM
I tend to agree with Prof Underwood and SomeKittens that and electronic results submission system is something that would be a great first step.  It would alleviate paper work for both Cactus and the hosts. Also--trivially simple to do--although with some possible fun coding bits (like "almost" name matching).

FWIW if you would be interested I would be willing to donate the code I wrote to player calculate rankings (similar to chess or XBox live rankings) for the online tourney, and bits and pieces of a Swiss style tournament tracking web app with some ajax crunchiness (i.e., a result ticker similar to what you see for sports).  I had originally hoped to release an actual web app in time for Nats this year--but I never had time to actually put all the bits and pieces together and package things up.

Oooops.  Thinking about it a bit , you probably would be way better off having me spend some time doing the integration bits and pieces myself.  If you would be willing to do all of the infrastructure work (e.g., stuff like player logins) and give me a framework to write against, I should have time to add any of these features in.

Let me know.

Thanks for your willingness to help, but I'm not sure that programming is exactly what I need help with. You can give me your code if you want and I'll look and see if I can use it, but what I REALLY need are web designers to help create layouts and create the look. I'm really just a logic programmer, not a web designer. :P
Title: Re: Redemption Connect! Tournaments Idea: NEED RESPONSES
Post by: lp670sv on August 15, 2011, 01:36:55 PM
Quote from: LordZardeck on August 15, 2011, 12:15:48 PM
I REALLY need are web designers

You rang? 5 Hour Studios at your service.
Title: Re: Redemption Connect! Tournaments Idea: NEED RESPONSES
Post by: LordZardeck on August 15, 2011, 01:46:04 PM
Quote from: lp670sv on August 15, 2011, 01:36:55 PM
Quote from: LordZardeck on August 15, 2011, 12:15:48 PM
I REALLY need are web designers

You rang? 5 Hour Studios at your service.

oh noes. Are you serious? Do you use a chat service such as MSN, AIM, or YAHOO? Cause we seriously need to talk.
Title: Re: Redemption Connect! Tournaments Idea: NEED RESPONSES
Post by: lp670sv on August 15, 2011, 01:50:08 PM
Quote from: LordZardeck on August 15, 2011, 01:46:04 PM
Quote from: lp670sv on August 15, 2011, 01:36:55 PM
Quote from: LordZardeck on August 15, 2011, 12:15:48 PM
I REALLY need are web designers

You rang? 5 Hour Studios at your service.

oh noes. Are you serious? Do you use a chat service such as MSN, AIM, or YAHOO? Cause we seriously need to talk.

AIM. lp670sv
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