Author Topic: MN Type 2 Only Blowout 2012  (Read 17826 times)

TheHobbit13

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Re: MN Type 2 Only Blowout 2012
« Reply #50 on: February 28, 2012, 08:52:46 PM »
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I don't know that split decks will be that much better. Just seems long and grueling imo, especially after type 2 multi. Personally I would rather do type 2 sealed instead at least that way you don't have to see the same cards for three straight catagories. Musical decks would be cool too.

Warrior_Monk

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Re: MN Type 2 Only Blowout 2012
« Reply #51 on: February 28, 2012, 10:28:23 PM »
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COMBO COMBO COMBO COMBO CONGO!!!! could see some play. It wouldn't be difficult to pull it off every turn, and it's a free soul.

Offline everytribe

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Re: MN Type 2 Only Blowout 2012
« Reply #52 on: February 28, 2012, 10:47:03 PM »
+1
Remember everybody thought Type 2 teams would be unworkable and would take forever with regular decks.

Remember also we are starting teams after 3 rounds of multi, so you don't have to play. There will be other games to play also.

Remember this is experimental. We didn't limit sites in type 2 sealed so Alex could beat Gabe.

Remember Matt's a reasonable guy(???????) I'm sure the rules will be tweeked a bit be for the tournament. Thats why he posted them. So give him your feedback. Maybe each deck should be required to have half of the lost souls and half the dominants.

Remember their will be alot of creative minds at the tournament. Why not see who can come up with the best killer combo within the rule. Someone else will figure that out and build a counter deck.

Remember winning team has to buy at Perkins and has to ride with me through the roundabouts to get there.
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Warrior_Monk

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Re: MN Type 2 Only Blowout 2012
« Reply #53 on: February 28, 2012, 11:28:29 PM »
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Remember this is experimental. We didn't limit sites in type 2 sealed so Alex could beat Gabe.
Unfortunately, that caused the legendary Save Que T-Shirt to fall into the hand of one of our greatest opponent's.

Offline EmJayBee83

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Re: MN Type 2 Only Blowout 2012
« Reply #54 on: February 28, 2012, 11:28:37 PM »
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Can Lost Souls redistribute?
No. During a game Lost Souls would not re-distribute. Players could sleeve their shard of the deck differently if they would like.


Note--the actual format of T2-TEAMS is open for discussion, which is why I asked for suggestions...  Let's keep in mind the goals:

1) We have played T2-Booster and T2-Sealed in the past. There were multiple requests for the past couple of years to try T2-TEAMS, so that's why we are here now.

2) We want to make T2-TEAMS a TEAMS event with a distinct T2 flavor (just like T2-Booster and T2-Sealed

3) We want T2-TEAMS to be fun.

Comments on the comments so far...
I think T2 Teams should have the same format as T1 Teams: Both players in a team build decks that match the regular T2 deck building rules, including all Lost Souls (with a shared LoB).
Given that tables of four regularly timeout at 1 1/2 hours in T2-MP how long do you think a game like this would take, Chronic? Four hours? Longer? I just do not believe this is feasible.

This rule, imo, just screams break me. I think everyone remembers the lack of site cap last year. ;) I think an equal distribution of cards would be best.
Low blow, Hobbit.  ;)  The only way site lock would work was if some player traded his sites to his opponent. Since this was T2, I assumed no n00bs would be playing.  My bad.

I was totally going to build that Zeb deck... And probably just dominate with it.
And I was expecting you to build that Zeb deck--simply because it is a completely obvious strategy--so my deck would have multiple copies of Watchful Servant and ways to get him out. You deck out in turn one with seven lost souls available, and either me or my partner (depending who is sitting on your right) are coming in for a free rescue every time.

I completely agree that rule 5 screams out "Please abuse me." I tried to counter that with rule #9, but the consensus seems to be that it will not be enough. So--if we want to try to meet the three goals at the tops--our choices are really three-fold...

1) We scrap deck splitting entirely. If we go this route, you need to provide some way to ensure that the majority of games can be completed in 1 1/2 hours or so (allowing three rounds),

2) We scrap rule #5 (and #9 since it is no longer needed without #5), and come up with some other way to split the decks. I tend to agree with the Hobbit that this will most likely lead to games that feel like you are wading through molasses--so you need to provide some way to minimize the slog effect.

3) We keep rule #5 but provide additional or a better counters to SDCS (i.e., skinny deck combo syndrome). What about replacing #9 with a rule that says when a player decks out he may no longer make a rescue attempt?

Thoughts/ideas/comments?  I'm really not married to anything beyond the three goals at the top.

Offline Red Dragon Thorn

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Re: MN Type 2 Only Blowout 2012
« Reply #55 on: February 29, 2012, 12:00:19 AM »
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Erm...

If this is Teams then my teammate will simply block for me...... Thus why the Zeb deck works.....
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Offline EmJayBee83

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Re: MN Type 2 Only Blowout 2012
« Reply #56 on: February 29, 2012, 06:15:48 AM »
+1
Erm...

If this is Teams then my teammate will simply block for me...... Thus why the Zeb deck works.....
Erm...

Not unless your teammate has a supply of defenders with a toughness of 0 or less... Believe it or not, I am not so addlepated that I didn't recognize the obvious*...

9) For SA (and Identifiers) that activate before a blocker is presented, the word "opponent" and "opponent's" refer to the player against whom the initial rescue attempt is being made. This identification remains in effect until a blocker is presented.

Actually, the idea that your "opponent" does not change when the opposing TEAM passes the block until an actual blocker is presented is one that would improve regular TEAMS as well. That is, however, another discussion for another day.

*Don't get me wrong. I recognize that I am addlepated**--I am just saying that I am not *that* addlepated.

**I always assumed the first use of the word "addlepated" on these boards would be in a post talking about CountFount.

Chronic Apathy

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Re: MN Type 2 Only Blowout 2012
« Reply #57 on: February 29, 2012, 10:53:39 AM »
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I think T2 Teams should have the same format as T1 Teams: Both players in a team build decks that match the regular T2 deck building rules, including all Lost Souls (with a shared LoB).
Given that tables of four regularly timeout at 1 1/2 hours in T2-MP how long do you think a game like this would take, Chronic? Four hours? Longer? I just do not believe this is feasible.

Teams and multiplayer are entirely different beasts, and a lot of T1 Teams games end up being shorter than regular T12P games depending on the circumstances. T2 Teams would almost certainly be shorter than T2MP would be.

Offline CountFount

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Re: MN Type 2 Only Blowout 2012
« Reply #58 on: February 29, 2012, 10:58:29 AM »
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Erm...

If this is Teams then my teammate will simply block for me...... Thus why the Zeb deck works.....
Erm...

Not unless your teammate has a supply of defenders with a toughness of 0 or less... Believe it or not, I am not so addlepated that I didn't recognize the obvious*...

9) For SA (and Identifiers) that activate before a blocker is presented, the word "opponent" and "opponent's" refer to the player against whom the initial rescue attempt is being made. This identification remains in effect until a blocker is presented.

Actually, the idea that your "opponent" does not change when the opposing TEAM passes the block until an actual blocker is presented is one that would improve regular TEAMS as well. That is, however, another discussion for another day.

*Don't get me wrong. I recognize that I am addlepated**--I am just saying that I am not *that* addlepated.

**I always assumed the first use of the word "addlepated" on these boards would be in a post talking about CountFount.

Addlepated- from the Greek- syn. Back stabber.
1) A term used for a team mate that bails out to protect oneself from defeat or to inflict defeat on his once best buddy who always had his back.

i.e. Matt "addlepated" Craig at Nats for a "prior appointment".
Now that we're a family, I can be the ulll-timate DAD.

Offline everytribe

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Re: MN Type 2 Only Blowout 2012
« Reply #59 on: February 29, 2012, 11:04:49 AM »
+1
Teams and multiplayer are entirely different beasts, and a lot of T1 Teams games end up being shorter than regular T12P games depending on the circumstances. T2 Teams would almost certainly be shorter than T2MP would be.

Not in MN. ;)

Type 1 and Type 2 are entirely different beasts. After playing type 2 sealed and type 2 booster draft, the overwhelming belief of the best type 2 players in the world was that teams would be unworkable because of time.
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Offline CountFount

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Re: MN Type 2 Only Blowout 2012
« Reply #60 on: February 29, 2012, 11:06:02 AM »
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Teams and multiplayer are entirely different beasts, and a lot of T1 Teams games end up being shorter than regular T12P games depending on the circumstances. T2 Teams would almost certainly be shorter than T2MP would be.

Not in MN. ;)

Type 1 and Type 2 are entirely different beasts. After playing type 2 sealed and type 2 booster draft, the overwhelming belief of the best type 2 players in the world was that teams would be unworkable because of time.

I never said that.
Now that we're a family, I can be the ulll-timate DAD.

Offline everytribe

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Re: MN Type 2 Only Blowout 2012
« Reply #61 on: February 29, 2012, 11:10:33 AM »
+1
Addlepated- from the Greek- syn. Back stabber.
1) A term used for a team mate that bails out to protect oneself from defeat or to inflict defeat on his once best buddy who always had his back.
i.e. Matt "addlepated" Craig at Nats for a "prior appointment".

And we sure showed him and taught him a lesson by losing three straight games after he addlepated.
Old Guys Rule

Offline CountFount

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Re: MN Type 2 Only Blowout 2012
« Reply #62 on: February 29, 2012, 11:32:17 AM »
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Addlepated- from the Greek- syn. Back stabber.
1) A term used for a team mate that bails out to protect oneself from defeat or to inflict defeat on his once best buddy who always had his back.
i.e. Matt "addlepated" Craig at Nats for a "prior appointment".

And we sure showed him and taught him a lesson by losing three straight games after he addlepated.

In recognition of his "addlepation" Maybe we can give him a Judas Iscariot card... Unlimited edition
Now that we're a family, I can be the ulll-timate DAD.

Offline EmJayBee83

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Re: MN Type 2 Only Blowout 2012
« Reply #63 on: February 29, 2012, 10:13:05 PM »
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I think T2 Teams should have the same format as T1 Teams: Both players in a team build decks that match the regular T2 deck building rules, including all Lost Souls (with a shared LoB).
Given that tables of four regularly timeout at 1 1/2 hours in T2-MP how long do you think a game like this would take, Chronic? Four hours? Longer? I just do not believe this is feasible.

Teams and multiplayer are entirely different beasts, and a lot of T1 Teams games end up being shorter than regular T12P games depending on the circumstances.
Looking at the round-by-round results from the  last Nationals TEAMS games timed out twice as often as T1-2P and T1-MP (23.3%/all six rounds vs. 12.5%/first six rounds vs. 14.5%/all six rounds). Although there were some TEAMS games (especially the ones I played in :P) that were quicker that T1-2P and T1-MP, on average they were way slower.

Quote
T2 Teams would almost certainly be shorter than T2MP would be.
Why?

Earlier I suggested...
What about replacing #9 with a rule that says when a player decks out he may no longer make a rescue attempt?
Having thought about it, this is pretty weak sauce. RDT would probably just include a couple of copies of Abe's Kid in his Zebulun deck and discard one. On subsequent turns he would use Abe's Kid to search his discard pile for the other copy of Abe's Kid and place it under his deck.   Grrrrrrrrrrr...

What about the following rule?  "No player may make a rescue attempt if he did not draw three cards at the start of his turn."   Any obvious ways to abuse that one?
« Last Edit: February 29, 2012, 10:58:32 PM by EmJayBee83 »

Offline Red Dragon Thorn

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Re: MN Type 2 Only Blowout 2012
« Reply #64 on: February 29, 2012, 11:04:14 PM »
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I've so moved on, I've got much better ideas for wrecking people.
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TheHobbit13

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Re: MN Type 2 Only Blowout 2012
« Reply #65 on: February 29, 2012, 11:21:18 PM »
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I think I may have just broke Type 2 TEAMS. Carry on  ;)

Offline EmJayBee83

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Re: MN Type 2 Only Blowout 2012
« Reply #66 on: March 01, 2012, 11:13:40 PM »
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I've so moved on, I've got much better ideas for wrecking people.
-and-
I think I may have just broke Type 2 TEAMS. Carry on  ;)

Maybe you two smarty pants should consider devoting your time to making suggestions for better TEAMS rules.   :P




I would have so used the kissy emoticon if it were still available,

Offline Red Dragon Thorn

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Re: MN Type 2 Only Blowout 2012
« Reply #67 on: March 01, 2012, 11:15:33 PM »
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It's not available anymore? :(

I don't know what better rules I could come up with, I'm pretty bad at making rules - Only breaking them.
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Chronic Apathy

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Re: MN Type 2 Only Blowout 2012
« Reply #68 on: March 01, 2012, 11:16:37 PM »
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Says the Elder::)

Warrior_Monk

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Re: MN Type 2 Only Blowout 2012
« Reply #69 on: March 01, 2012, 11:18:30 PM »
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I would have so used the kissy emoticon if it were still available,
Don't worry, we still love you  :-*

Offline Red Dragon Thorn

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Re: MN Type 2 Only Blowout 2012
« Reply #70 on: March 01, 2012, 11:18:59 PM »
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How do you think I got this status ;)

They figured if I was entrusted with upholding the rules, I wouldn't try to break them anymore.
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Offline EmJayBee83

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Re: MN Type 2 Only Blowout 2012
« Reply #71 on: March 02, 2012, 12:28:32 AM »
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Possible new idea...

Type-2 Progressive TEAMS

1. Each team is made up of two players, each of whom uses a standard T2 deck.

2. TEAMS play starts as normal.

3. After thirty minutes elapse or one team wins five lost souls the game is paused.

4. Each team is assigned a new opponent.

5. The teams move their half of the current game* to their new opponent.

6. The team having the fewest lost souls chooses who goes first, and you resume the game (i.e., go to step 3).

After a set number of swaps, the game ends and the team with the most Lost Souls rescued is declared the victor.

*Their half of the current game.  This includes your deck, discard pile, artifact pile, land o'bondge, land o'redemption territory, set aside area, hands, etc.  You basically pick up your entire game and move.

The advantages of this would be...

1) It's standard T2 (for the most part) so we don't need to worry (any more than usual) about people breaking the game.

2) We can control how long the events run by pre-setting the number of rounds allowing a Perkins run to be fit into the schedule.

3) Each team would get to face new opponents periodically helping to minimize the feel of slogging

4) Chronic would get to play with a full T2 deck. ;)


I dunno, what do all y'all think? Better/worse than original idea?

Warrior_Monk

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Re: MN Type 2 Only Blowout 2012
« Reply #72 on: March 02, 2012, 12:31:08 AM »
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Muahahaha, this sounds like fun. Totally going to play ANB to screw my opponent's over just as we switch.

Would captured characters of your opponent's move with you, seeing as it's in your LoB?

Offline EmJayBee83

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Re: MN Type 2 Only Blowout 2012
« Reply #73 on: March 02, 2012, 12:47:56 AM »
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Would captured characters of your opponent's move with you, seeing as it's in your LoB?
I was thinking that would be a yes (and the same for any characters exchanged with 7WS or Stalks of Flax).  If someone then played I am Redemption (or whatever) you could then return them to their rightful owners.  Cross-game combos ftw.

Offline Red Dragon Thorn

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Re: MN Type 2 Only Blowout 2012
« Reply #74 on: March 02, 2012, 12:48:45 AM »
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I'm a big fan of T2Swap instead of T2Teams.

I don't have everything hashed out yet - But the basic idea is that everybody builds a deck, then randomly gets paired with a different deck. Somehow we would need to eliminate the want to simply build a terrible deck, but besides that, it could be fun.


EDIT:

Actually, I remembered the setup that I wanted.

So basically, everybody comes with a deck - You'd have to institute a rule so that the decks are actually good - Then you set up the first pairings. Play a game. Then, rotate half the decks 1 slot to the left, and half the players to the right - Keep score for both the deck, and the player that won the game.

Could be interesting to see the top player, and the top deckbuilder essentially.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2012, 12:51:48 AM by Red Dragon Thorn »
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