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None of those verses provided seem to support your point.

I think holidays are whatever we make them. I didn't even know the origins of holidays like Halloween, Christmas, and Easter until about three years ago, and many adults today still don't. I never felt like I was worshipping the devil or sinning in any way when I dressed up like a vampire and went to parties with my friends, or gave my grandma a clay pot that I made in art class, or searched through my house for chocolate eggs. No matter what Christmas used to be, right now it is celebrated as the birth day of Jesus. It's the spirit of the holiday that matters, not its origins.

The verses that support my point are the ones where God says specifically not to worship Him in the same way the pagans worshiped their gods. I.E. trees decorated with gold and silver and brought into our homes, eggs died colors and celebrated on the days of other gods. He gave us seven yearly festivals that He said were His Festivals and that they were Eternal. Why do we want to trade those for two festivals that are clearly not what He wants us to do but, what we want to do instead?

I admit, things were easier when I observed Easter and Christmas. I didn't have to get into difficult situations like this debate. I don't want anyone to think I am judging them. I just want to be allowed to follow the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, love His Son, and Worship Him in the manner He set forth.

I used the Matt. 5 and Mal. 6 scriptures in anticipation of someone saying that God did away with the "Old Law" or the Old Testament. I hear that alot and, I find, when I give them the words of Jesus Himself stating that the Law is still valid, they will hear me out more easily.

Again, I don't judge anyone for the Holidays they celebrate. We all learn from the Spirit of God in His time. "Line upon line, precept upon precept". I accept that I am an outsider and that many of you will get mad or even hate me for my stance. However, I simply stand on scripture and have yet to see a scripture reference (from KJV since that is the most widely accepted printing) supporting any of your views. You can say I am not a Christian, that will not hurt me. You can even call me a heretic. But I simply quote Scripture and state historical fact.

Love and Blessings in Messiah Yeshua (Jesus Christ)

ShofarBlower
(Kevin Hedrick)

Quote from: Colin Michael on October 14, 2009, 09:29:28 PM

Quote

Was that directed at me? I do not celebrate Christmas, Easter, or any other holdiday except St. Patricks day, labour day, Thanksgiving, and the Holy Days.

Then why do you call yourself a Christian (assuming that you do)?

I worship Christ, go to Church, love God, love man, follow his laws (torah), and observe HIS FESTIVALS. Yeshua NEVER said to celebrate Halloween, Christmas, Easter, or such. Are you saying that I can't be a Christian and refuse to celebrate man-made celebrations which date back to human sacrifice and abominations? If that is true, I am most certainly not a Christian.

I'm just asking whether you call yourself a Jew or a Christian, as you seem to be in rebellion against all things Christian besides acknowledging Jesus as Messiah.

St. Paul writes:

Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by λόγου (reason, speech, word), or our epistle.
2 Thessalonians 2:15

Quote from: Colin Michael on October 15, 2009, 01:34:00 PM

Quote from: drb1200 on October 15, 2009, 01:25:46 PM

Quote from: Colin Michael on October 14, 2009, 09:29:28 PM

Quote

Was that directed at me? I do not celebrate Christmas, Easter, or any other holdiday except St. Patricks day, labour day, Thanksgiving, and the Holy Days.

Then why do you call yourself a Christian (assuming that you do)?

I worship Christ, go to Church, love God, love man, follow his laws (torah), and observe HIS FESTIVALS. Yeshua NEVER said to celebrate Halloween, Christmas, Easter, or such. Are you saying that I can't be a Christian and refuse to celebrate man-made celebrations which date back to human sacrifice and abominations? If that is true, I am most certainly not a Christian.

I'm just asking whether you call yourself a Jew or a Christian, as you seem to be in rebellion against all things Christian besides acknowledging Jesus as Messiah.

St. Paul writes:

Quote

Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
2 Thessalonians 2:15

I believe in the Apostles' Creed, which says nothing of the holidays.

So the Bible and the creed the council of Nicene put together is okay, but as for their address of the "Easter Controversy", we should just ignore that?

elaborate how his verses do not support his stance? they seem pretty solid to me.

You say that nothin I have quoted from scripture supports my point.

I say that, everything I have stated supports my point.

When one uses a skyscraper to maximize space in an overpopulated city, they are not worshiping any god. However when one erects a Christmas tree (spoken against in Jeremiah chapter 10) and says that they are celebrating the birth of Jesus, they are using pagan things to worship God. This is exactly what God said He did not want His children to do.        

Deu 12:30  Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou enquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise.
Deu 12:31  Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God: for every abomination to the LORD, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods.

Parades were common among all cultures, not just the pagan ones. David paraded the Ark of the Covenant before the whole city before returning it to the Santuary.

Hotels were always available in history and not every one of them were brothels as you suppose to present.

You have called my convictions "silly", however, I stand that you have never given one ounce of biblical proof to your claim that we should celebrate pagan days as Christian days.

Christ was born at the Feast of Tabernacles (follow the courses of the Priests to find when John the Babtist was concieved, then Jesus was born 6 months after John was. You can do the math or I can e-mail you the study I have done). He died on Passover (and no one has answered my question as to why Christians often celebrate Easter before passover).

I submit that holding on to pagan tradition rather than following Biblical logic is "silly".  

The only reason for my verses in Malachi were to state that God never Changes and that is the truth no matter the context. If I have confused in my intention, then, I apologize.

Also, I would ask if (since you obey the Torah) you would cut off your wife's hand if she punches a man in-between-the-legs in self defense and despise her in your hear from then on for it.

Epic Fail

I do follow Torah, you would have to understand that, Torah supports the victim not the oppressor. Self defense is always righteous. We have a legal system in this country that I have to rely upon until they foce me to go against my God. So, to answer Colin, I would not cut off my wife's hand in a situation of self defense. I woul also let the courts handle any punishment as the judges and priests were to do in scripture.

In reference to MP saying that the Matt reference is irrelevent, I think I covered my reasons for using Matt and Mal. and admitted that they were not directly connected to this debate. They simply sho that the Law is not pase' or old hat and that  it is still relevant for our lives.

In regards to your comment about not going after other gods.

The Christmas tree was used (originally) to worship the sun god Ra and Tammuz
(it was also banned in America until about 100 years ago, not sure of the actual time but I can find it if I need to)

"Christmas Ham" is tradition in most homes and it was tradition for the followers of Tammuz to kill and eat a pig on Dec. 25 because Tammuz was killed in his earthly life by a wild boar.

The whole Santa Claus tradition (with the exception of the real Saint Nicolas) is a copy of the worship of Molech.

The day Easter is set upon is the same day the pagan priests chose for the high day of Ishtar (the source for the name Easter) the pagan goddess of fertility. The Easter egg tradition is from the child sacrifices they would do to ensure her favor on the coming year.

Even the Easter bunny originates in the worship of Ishtar. (the mythology is that upon emerging from a freshly laid egg, Ishtar turned the bird that laid the egg into an egg laying rabbit)

How then are we not going after the pagan gods and using thier practices to worship our God?

In your Thessalonians reference I would argue that it was written by Paul, a man who kept the Festivals of God and that the changes of the holidays you all are referring to did not happen until hundreds of years later. And furthermore, I never said I think all we need is scripture. I simply think that when scripture stricly forbids something, we should not do it.

I do follow Torah, you would have to understand that, Torah supports the victim not the oppressor. Self defense is always righteous. We have a legal system in this country that I have to rely upon until they foce me to go against my God. So, to answer Colin, I would not cut off my wife's hand in a situation of self defense. I woul also let the courts handle any punishment as the judges and priests were to do in scripture.

In reference to MP saying that the Matt reference is irrelevent, I think I covered my reasons for using Matt and Mal. and admitted that they were not directly connected to this debate. They simply sho that the Law is not pase' or old hat and that  it is still relevant for our lives.

In regards to your comment about not going after other gods.

The Christmas tree was used (originally) to worship the sun god Ra and Tammuz
(it was also banned in America until about 100 years ago, not sure of the actual time but I can find it if I need to)

"Christmas Ham" is tradition in most homes and it was tradition for the followers of Tammuz to kill and eat a pig on Dec. 25 because Tammuz was killed in his earthly life by a wild boar.

The whole Santa Claus tradition (with the exception of the real Saint Nicolas) is a copy of the worship of Molech.

The day Easter is set upon is the same day the pagan priests chose for the high day of Ishtar (the source for the name Easter) the pagan goddess of fertility. The Easter egg tradition is from the child sacrifices they would do to ensure her favor on the coming year.

Even the Easter bunny originates in the worship of Ishtar. (the mythology is that upon emerging from a freshly laid egg, Ishtar turned the bird that laid the egg into an egg laying rabbit)

How then are we not going after the pagan gods and using thier practices to worship our God?

In your Thessalonians reference I would argue that it was written by Paul, a man who kept the Festivals of God and that the changes of the holidays you all are referring to did not happen until hundreds of years later. And furthermore, I never said I think all we need is scripture. I simply think that when scripture stricly forbids something, we should not do it.

You must be one of those guys who believe that 911 was a CIA conspiracy to get the people's support for a war in Iraq and that JFK was shot by the Masons for being Catholic.

Would you like me to show you how much of the Bible was stolen from other religions? Should we throw out the Bible because of its pagan origins?

Actually, Easter Jumps around just as much as the Passover celebration, But, I can see your point and thank you for a truthful response.

i'm just gonna stop reading this thread cause i think it's making me dumber and dumber by the minute

I am not trying to persuade anyone to my way of thinking, I agree with New Raven on his statement. I feel that this discussion is taking way too much of my time. I understand all your points of view and if I have offended in myself, then I am sorry. If I offend with scripture, then you should take it up with the man who wrote the scripture.

I will agree that many points of scripture are shared with pagan religions, but I will never concede that the scriptures adopted the pagan, possibly the other way around.

I feel that the comments that were made by Ironica regarding the Collosians 2 passage, only support my stand even more. That passage is condemning the worship of "angels" and the festivals that Paul would have advocated to those in Colosse would be the Feasts of God. If the Colossians would have been keeping festivals on pagan days, no one would have thought to condemn them, they would have just thought they were celebrating the same festivals as the other pagans.

Again, I say (as I dismis myself from this thread) that the celebration of Christmas and Easter did not enter the Christian church until about 300 years after the death of Paul and the Desciples. Therefore, they could not have advocated the following of such things. God, on the other hand, knows all and knew that His children would do those things so He specifically told us not to (I defer to my Deut 12:30 reference again.).

Please do not take my leaving this thread as a victory, I simply see that it is not worth my time to continue here.

Blessings on you all,

Kevin

I probably should have gotten involved in this thread a long time ago.  Colin, you have made posts throughout this discussion that are extremely inappropriate on a Christian message board.  I don't agree with Shofarblower that we should avoid Christmas or Easter, or that we have to still celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles, etc.  However, you have just been completely disrespectful to him, and he deserves an apology.

Quote from: New Raven BR on October 14, 2009, 06:24:16 PM

if the jews are celebrating passover and feast of tabernacles and such then why is it we're not celebrating the same holidays as they are? eh?

Because they killed Jesus.

Anti-semitism.  This is the kind of stuff Hitler talked about.

I respect your views as I do respect the views of the LDS, though I think them misguided and not Christian.

Comparing "Messianic Judaism" to "Mormonism" and denying a fellow board member's Christianity because they choose to follow Biblical guidelines about festivals.

You must be one of those guys who believe that 911 was a CIA conspiracy to get the people's support for a war in Iraq and that JFK was shot by the Masons for being Catholic.  Would you like me to show you how much of the Bible was stolen from other religions?

Completely devolving a debate to character assassination and topping even that by attacking the Bible for plagiarism.

can we please focus on the reason the Thread was made??.... ( What are you going to be for halloween?)
If u dont like the thread or the posts on it just leave

thank you. please take this debate to open discussion please.

back on topic, im gonna be a lego master chief!

I remember someone said that they were gonna be a booger.....but how?