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lol celeb what will you think of next? I like the look of the piercing by the way. And my   I'm pretty darn toot'n sure God didn't say don't get a piercing or tatoo in the Bible, and from what I can tell that scripture reference is taken sorta outa context. It seems to me that this sort of thing is in the grey, so it really all comes down to your relationship with Jesus. Somewhere in the bible it makes reference to this when it talks about don't make a fellow believer go against their convictions. (I would say those certain things some Christians have/do/say that other Christians wouldn't be caught dead doing are the grey areas that God doesn't say much about as sin or otherwise.) I wish I could remember that verse...

The scriptures quoted are not referring to casual piercing or tattooing, but to a pagan religious act. So those are clearly out the door. If you choose to follow those then you better make sure that you are not wearing any clothing that has more than one kind of fiber woven together (i.e. cotton and polyester) cause then you are sinning too. The real issue is this:

1) Although the Bible is silent on the issue of tattoos and body piercings as they stand in our culture, they are not silent on honoring your parents. If doing this would disobey your parents then you are in strong violation of where God wants you to be.

2) Has anyone ever been healthier after a body piercing or tattoo? The clear answer is no so in the arena of things being permissible, but not being beneficial, we have a clear loser.

3) Finally, the cost involved in having these procedures done (clearly in Caleb's case this is not an issue unless he incurs medical bills; see #2) is usually pretty substantial. Considering a large number of people in the world live in poverty and die due to starvation, as followers of Jesus we should have a huge problem blowing our money on such self ornamentation.

4) If you are clear on all three points, then tattoo and pierce away...  OH, wait a minute. One more issue is at hand. This one if mainly for the ladies, but can be for the guys too. Modesty is a huge issue in our culture and tattoos and piercings are just invitations to flash a body part to someone else. Not to mention the fact that certain piercings really say something about your personal purity. If your body modification is for you only, then fine, but if it is something you will want to show off then perhaps you should consider your heart on this issue.

That's an extreme misquote of the scriptures. It explicitly says only a mix of Wool and "Linen" mixed together should not be worn.

In what translation?  I see no such distinction in the NIV or NASB.

Quote from: uthminister [BR] on May 27, 2009, 09:34:13 AM

The scriptures quoted are not referring to casual piercing or tattooing, but to a pagan religious act. So those are clearly out the door. If you choose to follow those then you better make sure that you are not wearing any clothing that has more than one kind of fiber woven together (i.e. cotton and polyester) cause then you are sinning too. The real issue is this:

That's an extreme misquote of the scriptures. It explicitly says only a mix of Wool and "Linen" mixed together should not be worn.

Quote

2) Has anyone ever been healthier after a body piercing or tattoo? The clear answer is no so in the arena of things being permissible, but not being beneficial, we have a clear loser.

But not every piercing or tattoo causes sickness, either, so that seems like sort've a moot point to me.

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3) Finally, the cost involved in having these procedures done (clearly in Caleb's case this is not an issue unless he incurs medical bills; see #2) is usually pretty substantial. Considering a large number of people in the world live in poverty and die due to starvation, as followers of Jesus we should have a huge problem blowing our money on such self ornamentation.

"The poor will always be with you." (No saying we shouldn't help them, but remember that Yahushua condemned Judas for trying to condemn Mary.)

God clearly commands us to care for the poor.  It would take me too long to find all the verses he commands us to do such.  Here are a few:

  DT 10:14
To the LORD your God belong the heavens, even the highest heavens, the earth and everything in
it. 15 Yet the LORD set his affection on your forefathers and loved them, and he chose you, their
descendants, above all the nations, as it is today. 16 Circumcise your hearts, therefore, and do not be stiff-
necked any longer. 17 For the LORD your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great God, mighty and
awesome, who shows no partiality and accepts no bribes. 18 He defends the cause of the fatherless and the
widow, and loves the alien, giving him food and clothing. 19 And you are to love those who are aliens, for
you yourselves were aliens in Egypt. 20 Fear the LORD your God and serve him. Hold fast to him and take
your oaths in his name. 21 He is your praise; he is your God, who performed for you those great and
awesome wonders you saw with your own eyes. 22 Your forefathers who went down into Egypt were
seventy in all, and now the LORD your God has made you as numerous as the stars in the sky.

   LK 12:32
"Do not be afraid, little flock, for your Father has been pleased to give you the kingdom. 33 Sell
your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a treasure in
heaven that will not be exhausted, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys. 34 For where your
treasure is, there your heart will be also.

Psalm 82:3
“Give justice to the poor and the orphan; uphold the rights of the oppressed and the destitute.”

Psalm 82:4
“Rescue the poor and helpless; deliver them from the grasp of evil people.”

Luke 14:13
“Instead, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, and the blind.”

Luke 18:22
“When Jesus heard his answer, he said, ‘There is still one thing you haven’t done. Sell all your possessions and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.’”

2 Corinthians 9:9
“As the Scriptures say, ‘They share freely and give generously to the poor. Their good deeds will be remembered forever.’”

I have no problem w/ piercing due to the fact they can be removed at any time, and are a big part of certain cultures.  I just think if your going to get any professional job its best not to get a tattoo that isn't easily covered up.  Plus the fact that you are stuck with the tattoo once you get makes it something I wouldn't do.  I just try and stay away from gray areas.

Isn't that an O.T. scripture anyways? O_o; Not that we should dismiss all O.T. scripture but things like unclean animals are dismissed, aren't they?

The NT clearly indicates that those "unclean animals" are no longer sinful to eat (both in Peter's vision and in Paul's teachings).  The NT never indicates that it is not a good idea to get piercings and tattoos.

You could argue that the OT passage is only about a specific kind of piercing and tattoos, but it should not be compared to the "unclean animals" regulations.

So maybe those of us...myself included...should reconsider the large amounts of money we put into games...unless of course we see them as a ministry. In that case we should treat them more like a ministry and less as a hobby. I actually knew that would come up as soon as I typed that part. I have at times felt convicted about the money I spend on Redemption, and usually I am given an opportunity to recommit the game to ministry status.

BTW, I just threw those four ideas out there cause someone much wiser and better versed in the scriptures than I told me then when I asked him about tattoos and piercings. Being a Youth Minister, this topic has come up on occasion. The other idea that came up but I failed to mention in the earlier post is that our earthly bodies will return to the dust, so any idea that we are marring God's temple is not accurate. If you read the areas of scripture where our bodies are called God's temple, it is where we are talked about collectively as a building made from people (living stones). We will receive new bodies in heaven called "pneumatica soma" or spiritual bodies separate and apart from our earthly ones.

I'm against giving to the poor, actually. It was a different culture back then. Giving to the poor now is a terrible idea.

You seem to be making a generalization that all poor people are money-squanderers. This is unfair and untrue.

Quote from: BubbleBoy on May 27, 2009, 06:01:14 PM

Quote from: Colin Michael on May 27, 2009, 05:45:31 PM

I'm against giving to the poor, actually. It was a different culture back then. Giving to the poor now is a terrible idea.

You seem to be making a generalization that all poor people are money-squanderers. This is unfair and untrue.

Just in America.

Are you a sith?

A "poor" person in America isn't "needy".

That is not true.  The homeless are needy, single mothers are always needy.  They man not need money compared to someone living in the slums of Mumbai, but they still need things.

There are poor people with sattelite dishes and they do draw t he wrong kind of attention to poverty, but they are not the majority of those in poverty.  There are plenty of people in america who can use the generosity of others.

Quote from: crustpope on May 27, 2009, 06:43:22 PM

Quote from: Colin Michael link=topic=15903.msg248593#msg248593

A "poor" person in America isn't "needy".

That is not true.  The homeless are needy, single mothers are always needy.  They man not need money compared to someone living in the slums of Mumbai, but they still need things.

There are poor people with sattelite dishes and they do draw t he wrong kind of attention to poverty, but they are not the majority of those in poverty.  There are plenty of people in america who can use the generosity of others.

I mean, mothers have food, free schooling, and shelter, don't they?
Can't the homeless work as well?

I agree America is a land of oppertunity. If you're poor in America (as in living on the streets) its usually either the results of drugs or unwise usage of your money.

Quote from: Colin Michael on May 27, 2009, 06:47:17 PM

I mean, mothers have food, free schooling, and shelter, don't they?
Can't the homeless work as well?

If they would rather die, they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population.

Exactly.

Quote

That's an extreme misquote of the scriptures. It explicitly says only a mix of Wool and "Linen" mixed together should not be worn.

In what translation?  I see no such distinction in the NIV or NASB.

The KJV...

King James Version (KJV)
Leviticus 19:19

 19Ye shall keep my statutes. Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender with a diverse kind: thou shalt not sow thy field with mingled seed: neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woollen come upon thee.

Deuteronomy 22:11

 11Thou shalt not wear a garment of divers sorts, as of woollen and linen together.

Also, the word actually used is "sha‛aṭnêz"

shah-at-naze'
Probably of foreign derivation; linsey woolsey, that is, cloth of linen and wool carded and spun together: - garment of divers sorts, linen and woollen.

Quote from: Colin Michael on May 27, 2009, 06:47:17 PM

Quote from: crustpope on May 27, 2009, 06:43:22 PM

Quote from: Colin Michael link=topic=15903.msg248593#msg248593

A "poor" person in America isn't "needy".

That is not true.  The homeless are needy, single mothers are always needy.  They man not need money compared to someone living in the slums of Mumbai, but they still need things.

There are poor people with sattelite dishes and they do draw t he wrong kind of attention to poverty, but they are not the majority of those in poverty.  There are plenty of people in america who can use the generosity of others.

I mean, mothers have food, free schooling, and shelter, don't they?
Can't the homeless work as well?

I agree America is a land of oppertunity. If you're poor in America (as in living on the streets) its usually either the results of drugs or unwise usage of your money.

You're kidding, right? America is in a recession, people are losing jobs, which results in possibly losing a home.

And be careful about generalizing.... the sociologist will smack your hand. lol. But seriously, especially in our economy, you can't make that generalization.

And at Colin, alright, don't give the poor money. Have you ever talked to them; they're human too. Ask them what they need; if they're hungry, have you thought about telling him or her to stay there and you'll be right back, going to the nearest (insert restaurant here) and getting them something to eat? This is something people from my church regularly do in our community, which has one of the highest poverty rates in PA.

The youth pastor I work under did his Master's thesis about the divorce of social justice and evangelicalism, and the result was calling us to a remarriage of the two. I feel the same way he does about it: we try so hard to save souls we forget that people need food in their tummy too.

~Marti