Author Topic: The Early Church Phase 2 -- Feedback Megathread (Read 21277 times)

ChristianSoldier · « **Reply #50 on:** November 01, 2014, 02:35:22 AM »

Quote from: KoalaKing on November 01, 2014, 02:26:09 AM

I think it's because they aren't necessarily from Corinth, they just helped start the church there, so they're not technically Corinthians.

If that is the case, then I don't think it's an issue (hence the Mechanical Difference, as in differentiating between Corinth Heroes (setting up church) and Corinthians (people from Corinth) even if nothing actually refers to Corinthians) it still seems odd, but it's a necessary oddity.

Daniel · « **Reply #51 on:** November 01, 2014, 01:41:28 PM »

Some of my suggestions have already been used on cards so here are some replacements and a couple new switches.

Timothy
Artist Unknown

Examining the Scriptures (Found a much higher quality version)
Art by Rembrandt

Unity in Christ (Current art is pretty pixelated, my suggestion is this unique work by american artist Benjamin West)
Art by Benjamin West

Aristarchus/Secundus
Art by El Greco

redemption collector 777 · « **Reply #52 on:** November 01, 2014, 04:49:39 PM »

Rob just posted another feed about the Phase 2 TEC cards.

I noticed that the Spirit of Fear card has the word "may" in it twice.

CactusRob · « **Reply #53 on:** November 01, 2014, 06:39:22 PM »

Quote from: redemption collector 777 on November 01, 2014, 04:49:39 PM

Rob just posted another feed about the Phase 2 TEC cards.

I noticed that the Spirit of Fear card has the word "may" in it twice.

Good catch. I fixed it. Thank you.
Rob

Redoubter · « **Reply #54 on:** November 01, 2014, 11:02:34 PM »

List of the major changes from this update (as far as I know them):

Letters to the Corinthians
Now sets aside any number of Corinth Heroes, and ties the X to that (you have to set aside more for more of a benefit now).

Missionary Ship
No longer lets you get around your own sites.

Silas
Protection is now limited to territories.

Luke
Heal/recur is limited to once per round now.

Timothy
No longer Territory-Class.

Barsabbas
Lost the search and can only band to Silas.

Love
Major changes, now a Multi-Good with the ability:
"Heal and convert your character to a Hero of any brigade. Place on that Hero: While this Hero is in battle, protect characters not in battle from special abilities on evil cards, except banding."

Faithfulness
Along with Love and Self Control, the Fruits were finished out with a theme started in Phase 1, where they are shared with a brigade that makes sense for the concept. Purple was added to Faithfulness, and it now also protects against side battles and underdeck. However, this is all balanced by it no longer negating neutral cards.

Self Control
See previous comment on brigades for fruits, as this is now also Teal.

Generous Giving
Now gives generously to all (not a standard ITB-D3-Play, as ALL players may D3 at that step).

Sowing Bountifully
No longer underdecks good cards (returns them to the top of deck).

Miracle at Troas
No longer has a cost, is a straight heal.

Work with Your Hands
Balancing done by no longer working in discard phase (has to be played before or during battle to work).

Drunkenness
X = Number of draw abilities used on opponent's cards this turn instead of just the number of cards drawn as a limiter.

Stoic Philosophers
No longer protects generic Greeks.

Demetrius the Silversmith
No longer draws.

Antonius Felix
CBP instead of CBI.

Fearfulness
Now withdraws X and paralyzes for X turns, where X is the number of good brigades in battle.

Shipwreck
Now discards instead of underdecks, and no longer has the second ability.

ChristianSoldier · « **Reply #55 on:** November 01, 2014, 11:17:05 PM »

I still think Shipwreck should be limited to Good Fortresses and Sites, instead of any Fortress or Site, but I'm glad the random discard from hand is gone.

Red Warrior · « **Reply #56 on:** November 03, 2014, 10:27:06 AM »

Quote from: ChristianSoldier on November 01, 2014, 11:17:05 PM

I still think Shipwreck should be limited to Good Fortresses and Sites, instead of any Fortress or Site, but I'm glad the random discard from hand is gone.

I echo your sentiment on the second ability being removed, it gives the primary ability focus.

As far as the second part, I can honestly say I rarely run into any decks that use the evil protect fortresses. I see the occasional High Priest's Palace (mostly used for Writ) and Gates of Jerusalem (mostly used for CBN Kings). My Assyrian players have dropped Assyrian Camp to make the most of their Protection of Jerusalem and Seraph With Live Coal. Outside of that, most protection I see comes from Caesarea Philippi (Pharisees).

The part I'm not looking forward to is occupying Tower of Thebez with this card looming around... oh, and the Disciples in Fishing Boat now have to deal with Assyrian Seige Army, Darius' Decree AND Shipwreck...

Should it read "characters and lost souls remain it play"? The character exception would be a change in the ability, the lost soul portion would merely be clarification.

Redoubter · « **Reply #57 on:** November 03, 2014, 12:18:18 PM »

Quote from: Red Warrior on November 03, 2014, 10:27:06 AM

Should it read "characters and lost souls remain it play"? The character exception would be a change in the ability, the lost soul portion would merely be clarification.

On the second part, no clarification is needed. Anything that discards a site leaves the soul in play by game rule, and the things that can do so (like ASA) don't clarify now.

On the first part, it is an interesting point, it will definitely hurt some forts more than others (though you don't need to put EVERYONE in Tower, for instance). I think it should stay as-is (you go down with the ship

), but I have this tidbit to add: KotW and Tower would still have all characters discarded. Why? Because they are protected from the effect of putting them in play instead of following their place card. So for the ones where it might matter more, it will still discard those EC.

Knoxyouthpastor · « **Reply #58 on:** November 03, 2014, 01:09:59 PM »

I like Shipwrecks new ability. Yeah, it'll be a pain for Disciples, & pretty much be in every deck now, but it's a good add in my opinion.

ChristianSoldier · « **Reply #59 on:** November 03, 2014, 02:04:40 PM »

Quote from: Red Warrior on November 03, 2014, 10:27:06 AM

Quote from: ChristianSoldier on November 01, 2014, 11:17:05 PM
I still think Shipwreck should be limited to Good Fortresses and Sites, instead of any Fortress or Site, but I'm glad the random discard from hand is gone.
As far as the second part, I can honestly say I rarely run into any decks that use the evil protect fortresses. I see the occasional High Priest's Palace (mostly used for Writ) and Gates of Jerusalem (mostly used for CBN Kings). My Assyrian players have dropped Assyrian Camp to make the most of their Protection of Jerusalem and Seraph With Live Coal. Outside of that, most protection I see comes from Caesarea Philippi (Pharisees).

Do you play T1 or T2, because this is coming from a T2 player where I can run into multiple Authority of Christ Promos or various other things. I have been playing a deck without Protecting my territory for a while now, and it can be very vulnerable at times. But everyone in my playgroup uses Protect Forts when we can (and at least one of my group uses what we call "Layers of Protection").

TheJaylor · « **Reply #60 on:** November 03, 2014, 04:16:59 PM »

I play Type 2 and I have definitely seen a decline in the use of protect forts, especially since the emergence of CwD and Decree to stop a pre-block AoC. In my opinion it's better to have another good EC part the protect fort because I rarely put down all the available ECs I have anyway.

Either way, whether or not to use a protect fort is definitely a matter of opinion, however I don't think that being able to take out a protect fort is necessarily all that bad.

ChristianSoldier · « **Reply #61 on:** November 03, 2014, 07:54:57 PM »

Quote from: KoalaKing on November 03, 2014, 04:16:59 PM

I play Type 2 and I have definitely seen a decline in the use of protect forts, especially since the emergence of CwD and Decree to stop a pre-block AoC. In my opinion it's better to have another good EC part the protect fort because I rarely put down all the available ECs I have anyway.

Either way, whether or not to use a protect fort is definitely a matter of opinion, however I don't think that being able to take out a protect fort is necessarily all that bad.

I still think Shipwreck should only hit good fortresses (and of course sites). CwD and Darius's Decree are very useful, but they don't stop AoC during battle (which can be just as devastating) and both take up the Artifact Slot, not to mention CwD hitting both players equally and knocking out character abilities. There probably has been a decline in Protect Forts, probably due to a combination of the artifacts mentioned, the addition of new testament themes that can be protected under the slightly more versatile, neutral and harder to target Cesarea Philipi and just a lack of protect forts for some new(ish) themes (like Demons and/or Magicians and Philistines). But that doesn't mean that they don't have a place.

Of course the power of the Evil Fortresses has less to do with Shipwreck as the impact of Shipwreck on the game. I can't say for sure whether or not it will have the impact I'm fearing, but I'm also trying to err on the side of caution on a new dominant, especially when offense is already significantly stronger than defense (offense should be stronger than defense, otherwise games wouldn't end, but it shouldn't be significantly stronger, in my opinion anyway). Dominants are already very powerful, just by the fact that they can be played essentially any time nothing else is going on, and they can't be negated, does a dominant that seems to be designed for taking out good fortresses (Fishing Boat, Garden Tomb and so on) and is an evil dominant need to be able to hit evil fortresses as well? I don't think saying that protect forts are being played less is a good reason to let Shipwreck discard them.

Maybe it won't be so bad. In fact at one per deck it probably won't be. But I think Shipwreck will be in most T2 decks whether or not it can hit Evil Forts, do we really need it to be more powerful than that?

Knoxyouthpastor · « **Reply #62 on:** November 05, 2014, 04:04:59 PM »

I play T2 & actually like Shipwreck hitting both good and evil forts. I think it gives it balance and more opportunity. Yes, it is an Evil Dominant, but that doesn't mean it just has to target good cards. Grapes is another one that goes both ways in my opinion.

browarod · « **Reply #63 on:** November 05, 2014, 04:44:25 PM »

There are plenty of evil cards that harm other evil cards (several ECs that discard ECs of other nationalities, for example) so I see no reason why Shipwreck can't do the same. I definitely like the new version over the old.

Master Q · « **Reply #64 on:** November 05, 2014, 08:06:53 PM »

Quote from: Redoubter on November 01, 2014, 11:02:34 PM

Miracle at Troas
No longer has a cost, is a straight heal.

Couldn't they give it numbers to at least make it playable in booster? It's depressing to think that this far in the game they would print a card that just healed a single hero and did nothing else, since Brass Serpent made all other healing enhancements redundant and unnecessary a long time ago.

Quote from: browarod on November 05, 2014, 04:44:25 PM

I definitely like the new version over the old.

Yes, the only thing I won't like is having to make room for two more staple cards (Lampstand and Shipwreck).

TheJaylor · « **Reply #65 on:** November 06, 2014, 12:03:29 AM »

I don't know that Shipwreck will necessarily be a staple unless your deck is search-heavy or big on territory destruction. I feel like a lot of times it's artifacts rather than sites and forts that are giving me trouble the most and yet I haven't used DoN in a Type 1 deck for quite awhile it seems. Granted there are more ways to deal with arts than forts and sites but being a staple? Probably not in Type 1.

Master Q · « **Reply #66 on:** November 06, 2014, 01:33:32 PM »

Quote from: KoalaKing on November 06, 2014, 12:03:29 AM

I don't know that Shipwreck will necessarily be a staple unless your deck is search-heavy or big on territory destruction. I feel like a lot of times it's artifacts rather than sites and forts that are giving me trouble the most and yet I haven't used DoN in a Type 1 deck for quite awhile it seems. Granted there are more ways to deal with arts than forts and sites but being a staple? Probably not in Type 1.

With Herod's Temple being as good as it is, Shipwreck will be a staple for me.

Knoxyouthpastor · « **Reply #67 on:** November 07, 2014, 12:32:40 PM »

Quote from: Master Q on November 06, 2014, 01:33:32 PM

Quote from: KoalaKing on November 06, 2014, 12:03:29 AM
I don't know that Shipwreck will necessarily be a staple unless your deck is search-heavy or big on territory destruction. I feel like a lot of times it's artifacts rather than sites and forts that are giving me trouble the most and yet I haven't used DoN in a Type 1 deck for quite awhile it seems. Granted there are more ways to deal with arts than forts and sites but being a staple? Probably not in Type 1.

With Herod's Temple being as good as it is, Shipwreck will be a staple for me.

With the Dom limit low in T1, I say it'll be used in half the decks. However, it will be in every T2 deck. Being able to get rid of that annoying site or fort in T2 can be the key to a W or a TimeOut.

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #68 on:** November 10, 2014, 09:48:16 AM »

so is generous giving changed again?

Redoubter · « **Reply #69 on:** November 10, 2014, 09:54:30 AM »

Quote from: RTSmaniac on November 10, 2014, 09:48:16 AM

so is generous giving changed again?

On my list of changes, I tried to get as many of the major ones as I could. This one is now ITB, ALL players may D3, and then you may play.

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #70 on:** November 10, 2014, 10:00:07 AM »

"Eye on It"
I think the card looking at X cards and returning on top or bottom is a bit strong for the card and should be consistant with the rest of phase 2 and place on bottom only.

Andrew Harrington This is more an aesthetic thing than anything else, but I would sooner have called this card "Run to Win" than "Eye On It".
October 26 at 2:47pm

Steve Kamke "Eye on the Prize" sounds better to me....I like the art as a fellow jogger.
October 2

I agree with both remarks.

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10152609227744900.1073741829.21471064899&type=1
the updated link would be nice posted somewhere

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #71 on:** November 10, 2014, 11:42:59 AM »

Spirit of Fear has may twice in the ability.

Redoubter · « **Reply #72 on:** November 10, 2014, 11:46:07 AM »

The updated FB post is not the 'final version' that will be released. Spirit of Fear got corrected, and Generous Giving is how it is in the 'updated' post on FB (be sure to look at that one instead of the older version).

AJ · « **Reply #73 on:** November 10, 2014, 07:03:08 PM »

Spirit of Fear's artwork looks inappropriate.

Daniel · « **Reply #74 on:** November 10, 2014, 07:04:53 PM »

Quote from: AJ on November 10, 2014, 07:03:08 PM

Spirit of Fear's artwork looks inappropriate.

You've got to be kidding

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Author Topic: The Early Church Phase 2 -- Feedback Megathread (Read 21277 times)

Daniel

browarod

Daniel