Author Topic: The Debate of Returning to Redemption and why I am finding it so hard to say yes  (Read 2239 times)

Offline captainofthehost

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Its has been a very long time since I have been active on these boards and been on the tournament scene. This game made a positive impact in my life and  I have been on keeping tabs on rule changes and sets since I left the tournament scene both as a host and a player.

I want to speak to 2 really big things that have decreased this game to the glory days of old.

First of all the game is now overly complex to teach to new players.  When I started this game you could teach an 8 yr old to play this game to where they could have some fun and success in a tournament. The "need" for a new card type every set was a great asset early on. Weapon class enhancements an forward created a big power discrepancy that derailed the focus of the sets into a witch hunt for what the most over powered meta game was at the time. The sets focus was no longer what power can we give a card for it to be useful against said meta game at the time and less of what game mechanic makes this character similar to how they behaved in the bible.

Second thing that has made this difficult to stay interested in for me is inconsistent ruling with certain words.  This game had a very concrete hierarchy that could be explained to new players. For those that remember paper rock scissors rulings. Words also had a concrete meant as to who chose if an ability was to activate or what it was to target. I'm going to pick on the Goliath ruling here for a min. this was probably one of the worst rulings since I have left the game. Wall of Protection (Place this site in your territory. No character MAY be brought into battle by an opponent.)  By the standard execution of this verb age (May) the holder of Wall of Protection could have elected to allow them to be brought into battle. Goliath returning heroes to territory and wall keeping heroes from entering battle just because they are in play makes now sense. 1 Wall of protection says may and its protecting my cards. Biblical argument by this logic David could have never killed Goliath. Game play argument I am elective protecting (may) the Heroes and EC's in my territory I should be allowed to send a second Hero into battle if I choose.

I would love to get back into the game but, whit not being able to teach this game to young players that can really benefit from the game like I did and meta game witch hunt its really hard for me to convince my self to take the plunge back in.

Offline Prof Underwood

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I would love to get back into the game but, whit not being able to teach this game to young players that can really benefit from the game like I did and meta game witch hunt its really hard for me to convince my self to take the plunge back in.
The good news is that the next set that is going to be released is a starter deck set, and according to most of the people who are playtesters, it is the best teaching tool since sliced bread.  It is simple to explain to that 8yr old that you were talking about, and it's a lot of fun to play.  It will also come with a new update of the rules that should also simplify some aspects of the game.

As for the super-powered metagame, that only matters at top tournaments.  Anyone is welcome to host their own local tournament, and everyone should be on a basically level playing field (as long as the top players don't crash your party).

Offline lp670sv

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Redemption needs to be more complex than it was when it first came out, the complexity adds variety and fuels people buying cards. Buying cards is the only thing that keeps the game alive.

Offline JSB23

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The good news is that the next set that is going to be released is a starter deck set, and according to most of the people who are playtesters, it is the best teaching tool since sliced bread.
That's assuming it ever comes out, which it probably won't.
An unanswered question is infinitely better than an unquestioned answer.

Warrior_Monk

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Second thing that has made this difficult to stay interested in for me is inconsistent ruling with certain words.  This game had a very concrete hierarchy that could be explained to new players. For those that remember paper rock scissors rulings. Words also had a concrete meant as to who chose if an ability was to activate or what it was to target.
The issue with current rulings is when they mix with older wordings. We now have concrete definitions of the multiple things that before had a variety of meanings. "Cannot be blocked by" "May not be blocked by" "Ignore" "Repel". It's getting better, but we're having problems with older cards that are worded weird.

Which is why Set Rotation would be really nice, but I understand why Rob can't really do that.

Offline captainofthehost

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Prof. I'd love to see the new rule book and starter decks. I thought they were slated to be out at Natz. this past fall? I agree the metagame is a top of the pyramid issue to deal with but at the same time you look at the 1st meta game BTN Cactus response only included  a few cards HoH and AP along with really specific cannot be negated. The next large meta they attacked was speed which was a much larger response in card volume (these sets where much smaller than the sets released where BTN was addressed) So now if I'm not a part of top of the pyramid then the number of cards I really need to buy greatly decreases. Sets main goal use to be adding new strategy. I'll speak to the expansion sets while I was playing (Womens- site lock out Warriors- text based abilities, Apostles- Artifact and Conversion based, Pats- Banding and capture got to playable boosts and the new interesting dynamic of Covenant Cards and the start of the Cultural based strategy, Kings- Warriors II with weapon class enhancements, Angel Wars- Fort based strategies emerge, Priests- Curse Cards and teal brigade, FooF- Cultural based strats if fully viable on many redemption cultures, ROA- Fortress and culture based strategies merge, TXP- I only saw a bit of this set but mostly this set was made to have shiny cards and fight meta games Taunting was a nice plus from the promo sheet Also place cards which I don't like how many of then there are they have become sudo DOMs in a sense cause the game mechanic does not have a great way to counter them.)   

Offline YourMathTeacher

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You had mentioned the Goliath ruling in your first post. I actually like that ruling because it caused some folks to take Wall of Protection out of their decks. That opened up all the fun of banding to your opponents characters again. I enjoy playing Deborah's Directive after my opponent plays a "discard/remove all" like Joseph in Prison and they have the misfortune of using OT heroes.
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Offline captainofthehost

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You had mentioned the Goliath ruling in your first post. I actually like that ruling because it caused some folks to take Wall of Protection out of their decks. That opened up all the fun of banding to your opponents characters again. I enjoy playing Deborah's Directive after my opponent plays a "discard/remove all" like Joseph in Prison and they have the misfortune of using OT heroes.

Yeah but it has no grounds by text to be ruled that way: Ex
Zaccheus ( Holder [Root Target controller] may search draw pile for one Fortress card Tells what I MAY elective do.

Wall of protection ( No character [Root Target controller] may be brought into battle by an opponent Tells what I MAY elective do.

The way the card is ruled with that ruling is: cannot be brought into battle by an opponent. Where is the REG now by the way I wanted to see if the cards was changed to this or if the ruling was only to favor a NATZ promo  ::)

Offline Alex_Olijar

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The reg is a downloadable PDF. The rules were not changed. It's actually the most consistent ruling overall.

Offline captainofthehost

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The reg is a downloadable PDF. The rules were not changed. It's actually the most consistent ruling overall.

Siege was ruled that you could not bring your heroes into battle if you had Wall out if I am recalling correctly?

 


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