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Open Forum => Off-Topic => Topic started by: Gabe on June 30, 2009, 11:21:13 AM

Title: TexP Article #4 - Holy Dominants Grape Ape!!!
Post by: Gabe on June 30, 2009, 11:21:13 AM
http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/red_game_articles_TeP-4.php (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/red_game_articles_TeP-4.php)
Title: Re: Holy Dominants Grape Ape!!!
Post by: Cameron the Conqueror on June 30, 2009, 11:25:00 AM
OH YEAH!  Dominant!!!

I like this card because you can use it on defense too!
Title: Re: Holy Dominants Grape Ape!!!
Post by: crustpope on June 30, 2009, 11:33:39 AM
I think this will easily become a multiplayer staple dominant.

This looks like so much fun!
Title: Re: Holy Dominants Grape Ape!!!
Post by: Master KChief on June 30, 2009, 11:37:41 AM
a powerful card, but balanced as well. finally. thank you cactus.
Title: Re: Holy Dominants Grape Ape!!!
Post by: sk on June 30, 2009, 11:43:19 AM
Quote
Does Jacob make you tear your clothes in frustration?  Does Ethiopian Treasurer keep rocking the boat?  Do Zebulun and Widow make you feel like you are not even in the room?
:D

Quote
Multi-player.  Justin is about to win the game.
Ah, so true...


Looks like a fun card, as long as RR can't find a way to protect his heroes from shuffle...
Title: Re: Holy Dominants Grape Ape!!!
Post by: Captain Kirk on June 30, 2009, 11:43:47 AM
This is definitely one of my most favorite cards, ever.  Seriously, epic wyn.  :thumbup:

And Stalks of Flax? Wow, that card is amazing as well! I'm assuming it is limited to two turns, as the article mentioned "Your powerful heroes might leave you for a couple rounds and go on a mission for another player."

I give the well-deserved props to Rob for introducing game-shaking new cards.  Grapes of Wrath definitely brings pandemonium upon all of the best combos in the game.

Anyone else see the Chinook Helicopter in the sky...?  8)

Kirk
Title: Re: Holy Dominants Grape Ape!!!
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on June 30, 2009, 11:49:22 AM
Yeah, I love this card too. I see myself using it largely as a defensive card.  ;D

Random question.

Is this the first card aside from AW to have modern stuff in it? I see a helecopter in the background.
Title: Re: Holy Dominants Grape Ape!!!
Post by: Lawfuldog on June 30, 2009, 11:55:21 AM
Wow, the possibilities with this card are endless... Though I can see playing this on defense way more often than offense.
Title: Re: Holy Dominants Grape Ape!!!
Post by: Alex_Olijar on June 30, 2009, 11:56:18 AM
You guys realise this means there's a evil dominant too, right?
Title: Re: Holy Dominants Grape Ape!!!
Post by: Hedgehogman on June 30, 2009, 12:02:51 PM
YES!! I've been waiting for this card to show up on Bryon's list. :D This is probably one of my favorite new cards in the set.
Title: Re: Holy Dominants Grape Ape!!!
Post by: Alex_Olijar on June 30, 2009, 12:04:19 PM
It's in the top ten for sure, but there's WAY cooler cards than this.
Title: Re: Holy Dominants Grape Ape!!!
Post by: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on June 30, 2009, 12:09:38 PM
You guys realise this means there's a evil dominant too, right?
Which I love.

YES!! I've been waiting for this card to show up on Bryon's list. :D This is probably one of my favorite new cards in the set.
It is one of mine because its such a defensive card.
Title: Re: Holy Dominants Grape Ape!!!
Post by: TimMierz on June 30, 2009, 12:55:11 PM
Besides Stalks of Flax, we see:
Wandering Spirit reprint (band to generic demon?)
Asahel reprint (as a "commando" blocker-chooser)
Orange popular in Minnesota due to a new evil fortress
A lot of grapes
Title: Re: Holy Dominants Grape Ape!!!
Post by: The Guardian on June 30, 2009, 01:13:32 PM
Quote
Multi-player.  Justin is about to win the game.

So much for my strategy of going for the "meek and helpless" appearance...thanks Bryon  :P
Title: Re: Holy Dominants Grape Ape!!!
Post by: LadyNobody on June 30, 2009, 01:15:11 PM
Oh wow this looks fun...but my neighbor boy is terrified by it  :laugh:

Maybe multi player will actually be more fun now that we know Justin isn't guaranteed the win...:D

~Britta
Title: Re: TexP Article #4 - Holy Dominants Grape Ape!!!
Post by: The Warrior on June 30, 2009, 02:04:01 PM
I was wondering when they would make a new dominant 8)
You guys realise this means there's a evil dominant too, right?
This is getting better by the moment! ( please make it work with my deck :prayer:)
Title: Re: TexP Article #4 - Holy Dominants Grape Ape!!!
Post by: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on June 30, 2009, 02:16:52 PM
Oh wow this looks fun...but my neighbor boy is terrified by it  :laugh:

Maybe multi player will actually be more fun now that we know Justin isn't guaranteed the win...:D

~Britta
Just put me at his table with my anb deck +the new evil dom O:-)
Title: Re: TexP Article #4 - Holy Dominants Grape Ape!!!
Post by: Prof Underwood on June 30, 2009, 02:47:27 PM
I add my congratulations to everyone else.  This card is AWESOME!!!!!

It helps with EVERYTHING that I have been bummed about for the last couple years (speed domination of T1-mp & pre-block ignore).
Title: Re: TexP Article #4 - Holy Dominants Grape Ape!!!
Post by: Professoralstad on June 30, 2009, 02:53:39 PM
Quote
Orange will become quite popular this year.  Maybe even in Minnesota.

Nope. Not gonna happen. Not here. Not now. Not ever.

Anyway, nice job on the card. It shall certainly be interesting to see.
Title: Re: TexP Article #4 - Holy Dominants Grape Ape!!!
Post by: Red Dragon Thorn on June 30, 2009, 03:06:19 PM
You still can't play it if they're ignoring you from entering battle and you don't have a placed card.
Title: Re: TexP Article #4 - Holy Dominants Grape Ape!!!
Post by: EmJayBee83 on June 30, 2009, 03:31:44 PM
All I know is this card is good enough to force Professor Alstad to post.  ;)

More shuffling crunchy goodness!  Yippee-ki-yo-ki-yay...
Title: Re: TexP Article #4 - Holy Dominants Grape Ape!!!
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on June 30, 2009, 03:35:26 PM
(please make it work with my deck :prayer:)

I think it'll work with just about any deck...
Title: Re: TexP Article #4 - Holy Dominants Grape Ape!!!
Post by: Professoralstad on June 30, 2009, 03:40:04 PM
All I know is this card is good enough to force Professor Alstad to post.  ;)

More shuffling crunchy goodness!  Yippee-ki-yo-ki-yay...


Yep. Cards named after classic novels always do.
Title: Re: TexP Article #4 - Holy Dominants Grape Ape!!!
Post by: lightningninja on June 30, 2009, 04:01:42 PM
This card is amazing! You can even add madness to battle and then use it!
Title: Re: TexP Article #4 - Holy Dominants Grape Ape!!!
Post by: EmJayBee83 on June 30, 2009, 04:14:23 PM
All I know is this card is good enough to force Professor Alstad to post.  ;)

More shuffling crunchy goodness!  Yippee-ki-yo-ki-yay...


Yep. Cards named after classic novels always do.
In that case I can't wait until Bryon spoils "Moby dork."
Title: Re: Holy Dominants Grape Ape!!!
Post by: Gabe on June 30, 2009, 04:17:26 PM
You guys realise this means there's a evil dominant too, right?

Where in Bryon's article did it say that there's an evil dominant too?
Title: Re: TexP Article #4 - Holy Dominants Grape Ape!!!
Post by: Bryon on June 30, 2009, 04:20:13 PM
Actually, I was going to write about "A Tale of Two Cities," the card based on the Destruction of Sodom and G... uh, the other city I can never spell.

Either that or "A Farewell to Arms," the reprint of Swords into Plowshares.

I think it is really cool that 20 card in the next set are based on Classic books from the Past, considering the title of the set.

I'm still not sure we should have used "Green Eggs and Ham" for a card title, though.  Oh well, it might look delicious in foil.
Title: Re: TexP Article #4 - Holy Dominants Grape Ape!!!
Post by: The Guardian on June 30, 2009, 04:22:26 PM
Bryon, you did check the spelling on "David Copperfield" so it didn't come out as "David Cooperfield," right?

We wouldn't want that to happen again... ::)
Title: Re: TexP Article #4 - Holy Dominants Grape Ape!!!
Post by: sk on June 30, 2009, 04:29:33 PM
You know you're a film major when you hear the name and think 'classic film' before 'classic novel'... (Gregg Toland (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0005904/) ftw!)

By the way, you might want to go ahead and let Kurt know his T2MP deck will have to get by 3 of these next year...
Title: Re: TexP Article #4 - Holy Dominants Grape Ape!!!
Post by: Bryon on June 30, 2009, 04:33:36 PM
I don't get to see the mockups before those go out to print, so I have no idea.  I think Doug put those Coopersmith cards together.  He was contemplating buying a Cooper at the time, and, well, it slipped.

But back to the cards this set, I think that David's Copper Field is a fairly nice site, but I think jaws will be on the floor when people see The Return of the King.
Title: Re: TexP Article #4 - Holy Dominants Grape Ape!!!
Post by: Alex_Olijar on June 30, 2009, 04:34:18 PM
You guys realise this means there's a evil dominant too, right?

Where in Bryon's article did it say that there's an evil dominant too?

Redemption Sets have been very good at balancing.
Title: Re: TexP Article #4 - Holy Dominants Grape Ape!!!
Post by: adamfincher on June 30, 2009, 04:43:31 PM
I don't get to see the mockups before those go out to print, so I have no idea.  I think Doug put those Coopersmith cards together.  He was contemplating buying a Cooper at the time, and, well, it slipped.

But back to the cards this set, I think that David's Copper Field is a fairly nice site, but I think jaws will be on the floor when people see The Return of the King.


*JAW HAS BEEN DROPPED JUST HEARING ABOUT IT*
Title: Re: TexP Article #4 - Holy Dominants Grape Ape!!!
Post by: TimMierz on June 30, 2009, 04:47:30 PM
You guys realise this means there's a evil dominant too, right?

Where in Bryon's article did it say that there's an evil dominant too?

Redemption Sets have been very good at balancing.

Balancing what?

In any case, the last set where we saw new dominants for both good and evil was... the A & B starter decks.
SoG, AotL, CM, Burial - A & B decks
Falling Away - Women
New Jerusalem, Harvest Time - Warriors
Guardian of Your Souls - Apostles
Destruction of Nehushtan - Patriarchs
Glory of the Lord - Kings
Doubt - Priests
Title: Re: TexP Article #4 - Holy Dominants Grape Ape!!!
Post by: NWJosh on June 30, 2009, 04:56:54 PM
Wow just thinking that there could be other cards in this set that might be even more fun to play makes this set seem awesome.  I am so ready for Booster Draft at Nats.
Title: Re: TexP Article #4 - Holy Dominants Grape Ape!!!
Post by: Master KChief on June 30, 2009, 05:33:12 PM
question, if both players are tied in lost soul count, would that mean they both have the 'most' lost souls?
Title: Re: TexP Article #4 - Holy Dominants Grape Ape!!!
Post by: Bryon on June 30, 2009, 05:33:32 PM
Guardian of Your Souls - Apostles
Destruction of Nehushtan - Patriarchs
Glory of the Lord - Kings
Doubt - Priests

Just looking at the last four dominants alternating good to evil to good to evil, you can see that this set gets the good dominant.
Title: Re: TexP Article #4 - Holy Dominants Grape Ape!!!
Post by: Alex_Olijar on June 30, 2009, 05:37:40 PM
I'm inclined to say that there's two because everything else came from a booster pack and this is a set where good and evil likely got equal treatment.
Title: Re: TexP Article #4 - Holy Dominants Grape Ape!!!
Post by: Gabe on June 30, 2009, 05:51:57 PM
Huh, I wonder how this factors in...

5. Are we seeing a new dominant card?

The set is not quite done.  At least not for a few days.

5. not presently
Title: Re: TexP Article #4 - Holy Dominants Grape Ape!!!
Post by: The Schaef on June 30, 2009, 06:34:04 PM
question, if both players are tied in lost soul count, would that mean they both have the 'most' lost souls?

Based on the way Eli the Priest et al are played, the answer should be no.

Huh, I wonder how this factors in...

5. Are we seeing a new dominant card?

The set is not quite done.  At least not for a few days.

5. not presently

There was not A new dominant card...  ;D
Title: Re: TexP Article #4 - Holy Dominants Grape Ape!!!
Post by: Alex_Olijar on June 30, 2009, 06:37:34 PM
Told you.
Title: Re: TexP Article #4 - Holy Dominants Grape Ape!!!
Post by: Master KChief on June 30, 2009, 06:46:02 PM
question, if both players are tied in lost soul count, would that mean they both have the 'most' lost souls?

Based on the way Eli the Priest et al are played, the answer should be no.


so if both players are tied, and the rescuer plays GoW, then the rescuer may begin another battle?
Title: Re: TexP Article #4 - Holy Dominants Grape Ape!!!
Post by: YourMathTeacher on June 30, 2009, 06:58:25 PM
That does appear to be true, which is particularly useful if you are tied 4-4.  ;D
Title: Re: TexP Article #4 - Holy Dominants Grape Ape!!!
Post by: Master KChief on June 30, 2009, 07:38:01 PM
i think its pretty funny how we were discussing 'staple' dominants the other day...this card is definately staple. if you dont use it for offense, then you're certainly going to use it for defense.
Title: Re: TexP Article #4 - Holy Dominants Grape Ape!!!
Post by: lightningninja on June 30, 2009, 07:45:08 PM
I'm not sure, because grapes of wrath pretty much IS an evil dominant!  ;)
Title: Re: TexP Article #4 - Holy Dominants Grape Ape!!!
Post by: Bryon on June 30, 2009, 08:11:31 PM
Huh, I wonder how this factors in...

5. Are we seeing a new dominant card?

The set is not quite done.  At least not for a few days.

5. not presently
At the time, I wasn't looking at a dominant card.  I don't know if HE was looking at a dominant, but it takes both of us looking at one to be "we seeing."  :)
Title: Re: TexP Article #4 - Holy Dominants Grape Ape!!!
Post by: YourMathTeacher on June 30, 2009, 08:12:53 PM
There will be plenty of ways to exploit this, but it sure will be fun to be in a 4-4 tie, start a RA, use up almost every trick you have to make your opponent use up all their tricks to stop you, then play Grapes of Wrath to start a new battle while your opponent is depleted and take the victory for the win.

Woo-hoo!  ;D
Title: Re: TexP Article #4 - Holy Dominants Grape Ape!!!
Post by: TimMierz on June 30, 2009, 08:33:54 PM
Huh, I wonder how this factors in...

5. Are we seeing a new dominant card?

The set is not quite done.  At least not for a few days.

5. not presently
At the time, I wasn't looking at a dominant card.  I don't know if HE was looking at a dominant, but it takes both of us looking at one to be "we seeing."  :)

You just made everyone else look like a word-bending lightweight. Wow.
Title: Re: TexP Article #4 - Holy Dominants Grape Ape!!!
Post by: Soundman2 on July 01, 2009, 12:44:47 PM
I like this card
Title: Re: TexP Article #4 - Holy Dominants Grape Ape!!!
Post by: The Warrior on July 01, 2009, 03:34:42 PM
i wonder if this evil dominant will be a staple or not. GoW will be a staple
Title: Re: TexP Article #4 - Holy Dominants Grape Ape!!!
Post by: Bryon on July 01, 2009, 03:42:23 PM
What evil dominant?
Title: Re: Holy Dominants Grape Ape!!!
Post by: robm on July 01, 2009, 05:36:41 PM

Anyone else see the Chinook Helicopter in the sky...?  8)


I didn't know there were helicopters in the Bible?   :police:
Title: Re: TexP Article #4 - Holy Dominants Grape Ape!!!
Post by: YourMathTeacher on July 01, 2009, 05:40:53 PM
I didn't know Saint Patrick was in the Bible, .... or Salvation Army uniforms, .... or certain Emperors..., or angels with light sabres and hoverboards...
Title: Re: TexP Article #4 - Holy Dominants Grape Ape!!!
Post by: robm on July 01, 2009, 05:45:06 PM
Regardless...

I didn't know Jesus was coming back with helicopters in the background.
Title: Re: TexP Article #4 - Holy Dominants Grape Ape!!!
Post by: YourMathTeacher on July 01, 2009, 05:50:48 PM
I just see a wisp of dark clouds. Have you taken a Rorschach test lately?
Title: Re: TexP Article #4 - Holy Dominants Grape Ape!!!
Post by: Minister Polarius on July 01, 2009, 05:50:52 PM
You didn't? Haven't you ever read Left Behind, the other 7 books of the Bible?
Title: Re: TexP Article #4 - Holy Dominants Grape Ape!!!
Post by: Professoralstad on July 01, 2009, 05:56:52 PM
You didn't? Haven't you ever read Left Behind, the other 7 books of the Bible?

Actually, I think there were 12 books in the series, and some prequels if I'm not mistaken.
Title: Re: TexP Article #4 - Holy Dominants Grape Ape!!!
Post by: Master KChief on July 01, 2009, 06:00:11 PM
its actually jesus' recon helicopter.
Title: Re: TexP Article #4 - Holy Dominants Grape Ape!!!
Post by: Minister Polarius on July 01, 2009, 06:08:13 PM
Left Behind, Tibulation Force, Assassins, Mark of the Beast(?), Armageddon, Indwelling, Glorious Appearing...what am I forgetting?
Title: Re: TexP Article #4 - Holy Dominants Grape Ape!!!
Post by: RedemptionAggie on July 01, 2009, 06:14:18 PM
Nicolae (3), Soul Harvest (4), Apollyon (5), Desecration (9), The Remnant (10).
Title: Re: TexP Article #4 - Holy Dominants Grape Ape!!!
Post by: Ironica on July 01, 2009, 06:14:42 PM
Left Behind, Tibulation Force, Assassins, Mark of the Beast(?), Armageddon, Indwelling, Glorious Appearing...what am I forgetting?

Wow...a lot

Left Behind
Tribulation Force
Nicole
Soul Harvest
Apollyon
Assassions
Indwelling
The Mark
Desecration
The Remnant
Armageddon
Glorious Appearing

Three prequels and a sequel (plus all the kids books).
Title: Re: TexP Article #4 - Holy Dominants Grape Ape!!!
Post by: Master KChief on July 01, 2009, 06:15:39 PM
quite a few. nicolae, soul harvest, apollyon, desecration, the remnant, the rising, the regime, the rapture, and kingdom come.
Title: Re: TexP Article #4 - Holy Dominants Grape Ape!!!
Post by: Minister Polarius on July 01, 2009, 06:22:20 PM
Ah, gotcha. It's been forever since I read them. I liked them, good writing and character development, but I never read Kingdom Come because it sounded stupid.
Title: Re: TexP Article #4 - Holy Dominants Grape Ape!!!
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on July 01, 2009, 09:38:35 PM
I just see a wisp of dark clouds. Have you taken a Rorschach test lately?

Compare the ODDLY dark "blob" in the sky to this:

(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Findoorhelicopter-s.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2009%2F06%2F55826676-300x300-0-0_rctwisterskyliftrtfrchelicopterchinookfree.jpg&hash=497617c037ff674d1f0f1d73d8cfc56ab1679cd9)
Title: Re: TexP Article #4 - Holy Dominants Grape Ape!!!
Post by: RedemptionAggie on July 02, 2009, 01:50:59 AM
question, if both players are tied in lost soul count, would that mean they both have the 'most' lost souls?

Based on the way Eli the Priest et al are played, the answer should be no.

Eli searches for an Artifact.  Did you mean Jethro?  And what other cards are you referencing with et al?  Plagued with Diseases is the only other card I can find that would possibly work in a tie (most others say "fewer" or "more", which wouldn't be true in the case of a tie), or maybe I'm searching for the wrong words.



Title: Re: TexP Article #4 - Holy Dominants Grape Ape!!!
Post by: Minister Polarius on July 02, 2009, 03:45:32 AM
I don't think there's any need for an evil Dominant, as we already have one that can't be Discarded by Desecrate the Temple. Wait, this is a good Dominant? Nowai.
Title: Re: TexP Article #4 - Holy Dominants Grape Ape!!!
Post by: The Schaef on July 02, 2009, 07:10:08 AM
Eli searches for an Artifact.  Did you mean Jethro?

I did.  Fixed.

And what other cards [besides Plagued With Diseases] are you referencing with et al?

Nicanor, Timon, Dan, Parmenas, and Wickedness Abounds also are triggered by a player having "more of" something than another player.
Title: Re: TexP Article #4 - Holy Dominants Grape Ape!!!
Post by: Bryon on July 02, 2009, 09:58:53 AM
8 is more than 7, and 4 is not more than 4.  But if the score is 4 to 4 to 2 to 1, don't two players have "the most" rescued souls?

In other words, I think that "is more than" is not the same as "is the greatest."
Title: Re: TexP Article #4 - Holy Dominants Grape Ape!!!
Post by: The Schaef on July 02, 2009, 12:29:21 PM
This is a conversation from very shortly before we wrapped development:

Quote
A player tied for the most OT Heroes cannot draw a card with Jetro.  Similarly, a player tied for the most Lost Souls would still be allowed to use this.  Just want to make sure we’re all clear on this.
Quote
That is fine.  I just want a 2nd or 3rd place player to get the chance to rescue again.  Otherwise, all multi-player decks will use this as a defensive stop during a battle between 2 other players. 
 

It was my understanding that this was known and stipulated as being correct, so that I could have an answer when the question inevitably arose.
Title: Re: TexP Article #4 - Holy Dominants Grape Ape!!!
Post by: Bryon on July 02, 2009, 12:49:11 PM
Still, the only real precedent is Jethro, and Jethro qualifies what happens in ties in his case (since the ability says the "player" not "players" with the most OT heroes).  So, that is the only basis for the ruling.  I am not opposed to the ruling.  I'd honestly be happy either way.  Just clarifying that it is based on how one card is played.
Title: Re: TexP Article #4 - Holy Dominants Grape Ape!!!
Post by: The Schaef on July 02, 2009, 12:52:06 PM
I don't separate the qualifier from the definition, just as I don't separate the "two or more" qualifier from the definition of "lone Hero".  In fact, the 10th Anniversary decks set a precedent for using parenthetical text to further explain what naturally happens with the stated abilities.
Title: Re: TexP Article #4 - Holy Dominants Grape Ape!!!
Post by: Professoralstad on July 02, 2009, 12:53:03 PM
I think it comes down to whether "the most" means "more than everyone else" or "the greatest number" (since 4 is the greatest number in a 4-4-3-2 situation, a person with 4 has the most). It could be interpreted either way, so I think the situation might require a Rob ruling.
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