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Quote from: LukeSnyder on July 16, 2009, 02:55:52 PMQuote from: Janissary on July 16, 2009, 02:37:01 PMNo, he intended that.Maybe. Regardless, I thought it was funny, heheIf only Johnny Thunders had listened though (that is, if the conspiracy theories aren't true).In regards to the topic, America is a liberal democracy, therefore, the verse is non-applicable.
Quote from: Janissary on July 16, 2009, 02:37:01 PMNo, he intended that.Maybe. Regardless, I thought it was funny, hehe
No, he intended that.
Quote from: Colin Michael on July 16, 2009, 03:00:29 PMQuote from: LukeSnyder on July 16, 2009, 02:55:52 PMQuote from: Janissary on July 16, 2009, 02:37:01 PMNo, he intended that.Maybe. Regardless, I thought it was funny, heheIf only Johnny Thunders had listened though (that is, if the conspiracy theories aren't true).In regards to the topic, America is a liberal democracy, therefore, the verse is non-applicable. I disagree with this. Even though America is a liberal democracy, Obama would not be in office unless God allowed it (God allowed sinful men to rule Israel -- think King Saul). So as liberal as our country is, it still has laws that are to be obeyed, provided it does not conflict with God's laws. It is a sin to speed because not only is it illegal it is also dangerous. And even one mile an hour over the speed limit is speeding and the police can still bust you for it. After all, what happened to all the people in Scripture who tried to rationalize going against God's laws even a tiny bit?
Do you have any idea how American Government works? Obama doesn't make laws or really have any power. Of course, both Obama and Bush used mafia like tactics to take power, which is a perfect example of a use for the second amendment.
Quote from: juhnkect on July 16, 2009, 04:07:56 PMRight, but the initial call for independence was rooted in a desire for religious freedom. What? Not in any way at all. The Pilgrims came for religious freedom almost two centuries before the war for independence. The war for independence was about taxation without representation. The colonies had religious freedom under England. Many of the founding fathers weren't even Christians, they were deists.Also, people were allowed to be Christians under England, they just weren't allowed to be Christians in the way they wanted.Read your history books.
Right, but the initial call for independence was rooted in a desire for religious freedom.
Quote from: Colin Michael on July 16, 2009, 04:30:01 PMQuote from: juhnkect on July 16, 2009, 04:07:56 PMRight, but the initial call for independence was rooted in a desire for religious freedom. What? Not in any way at all. The Pilgrims came for religious freedom almost two centuries before the war for independence. The war for independence was about taxation without representation. The colonies had religious freedom under England. Many of the founding fathers weren't even Christians, they were deists.Also, people were allowed to be Christians under England, they just weren't allowed to be Christians in the way they wanted.Read your history books.Actually, Colin you are wrong on several accounts. It is true that your thinking has been swayed by RECENT history books but they were changed twice and intentionally. Once in the 50s and once in the 70s both quoting an atheistic author back in the 20s whose claims were unfounded both about the reasons why we "rebelled" and the belief systems of the draftees of the constitution. Prior to that it was about religious freedom. Our church is watching a DVD series "American Heritage". People harp on the "Taxation without Representation" and it wasn't even one of the top 15 complaints, and was mentioned overall very little. In an interest to keep God out of our history, and to make more of our books more about economics and it's role. The newer history books held on to that gripe and rose it to prominence. Along with the men who were deists and their roles. I would encourage you to look into that series. I will find the exact name and website to check it out when our pastor comes back from vacation.
Right, because "everyone else is doing it" has always been adequate justification for sin.
Quote from: soul seeker on July 23, 2009, 06:12:48 PMQuote from: Colin Michael on July 16, 2009, 04:30:01 PMQuote from: juhnkect on July 16, 2009, 04:07:56 PMRight, but the initial call for independence was rooted in a desire for religious freedom. What? Not in any way at all. The Pilgrims came for religious freedom almost two centuries before the war for independence. The war for independence was about taxation without representation. The colonies had religious freedom under England. Many of the founding fathers weren't even Christians, they were deists.Also, people were allowed to be Christians under England, they just weren't allowed to be Christians in the way they wanted.Read your history books.Actually, Colin you are wrong on several accounts. It is true that your thinking has been swayed by RECENT history books but they were changed twice and intentionally. Once in the 50s and once in the 70s both quoting an atheistic author back in the 20s whose claims were unfounded both about the reasons why we "rebelled" and the belief systems of the draftees of the constitution. Prior to that it was about religious freedom. Our church is watching a DVD series "American Heritage". People harp on the "Taxation without Representation" and it wasn't even one of the top 15 complaints, and was mentioned overall very little. In an interest to keep God out of our history, and to make more of our books more about economics and it's role. The newer history books held on to that gripe and rose it to prominence. Along with the men who were deists and their roles. I would encourage you to look into that series. I will find the exact name and website to check it out when our pastor comes back from vacation.I'm not interested in Christian revisions of what really happened. I've taken several college courses on both early U.S. History and U.S. Politics. I've also done primary source readings on my own. The colonists had religious freedom; there was no cause for a religious rebellion.Quote from: FresnoRedemption on July 23, 2009, 07:33:52 PMRight, because "everyone else is doing it" has always been adequate justification for sin.No, because it's safer to go at the speed everyone else is going. Also, it's not a sin. Also, I'd rather not be a Christian if being a Christian means that you have to submit to your government without question (thank God it doesn't).
Oh, well I still stand by that. I would save my life, and especially the lives of others, even if it meant I'd sin. Obviously I draw the line somewhere, but I would lie to save my friend. I would kill in self-defense.
