Author Topic: Retardation and morality (Read 8963 times)

Claude · « **on:** January 19, 2009, 10:55:33 PM »

Hey,

I just read Sound and Fury and I actually hated it but whatever. Anyway, I am suppose to write a paper and I decided to write a paper on how Benjy (this "idiot" or retarded person) is not amoral. Where he does not just present an amoral report of sensations and reactions... but reading in the internet, almost everything points out that retarded people dont have morals. What do you think?

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #1 on:** January 19, 2009, 11:31:21 PM »

LOL, I hated that book too. You gotta wonder how much of the "symbolism" in "classics" was actually just thought up by the teachers.

Uhh... thats a very interesting question though. Not quite sure how to answer.

The Schaef · « **Reply #2 on:** January 20, 2009, 09:24:01 AM »

For what reason would a retarded person not have morals? An adult may have the intellect of an 8-year-old, but 8-year-olds know right and wrong, they just don't understand complex issues.

JSB23 · « **Reply #3 on:** January 20, 2009, 12:00:23 PM »

Quote from: The Schaef on January 20, 2009, 09:24:01 AM

For what reason would a retarded person not have morals? An adult may have the intellect of an 8-year-old, but 8-year-olds know right and wrong, they just don't understand complex issues.

I can say from first hand experience those so called "sources" are 100% wrong

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #4 on:** January 20, 2009, 03:07:03 PM »

Quote from: Claude Homer Fong on January 19, 2009, 10:55:33 PM

Hey,

I just read Sound and Fury and I actually hated it but whatever. Anyway, I am suppose to write a paper and I decided to write a paper on how Benjy (this "idiot" or retarded person) is not amoral. Where he does not just present an amoral report of sensations and reactions... but reading in the internet, almost everything points out that retarded people dont have morals. What do you think?

Not to sound ignorant but is that the story

Spoiler (hover to show)

IF so, He has morals all the way through that book. As schaef said. Just cuz an education level is at 8, right and wrong is clear.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #5 on:** January 20, 2009, 03:14:23 PM »

Wrong book RR. Idk what one your talking about. lol.

SatF if the one where its written from the four different siblings points of view.

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #6 on:** January 20, 2009, 03:20:34 PM »

Ah, Don't think I've read that one.

EmJayBee83 · « **Reply #7 on:** January 20, 2009, 05:44:17 PM »

RR, the book you were thinking about Flowers for Algernon.

You have the ending a little bit wrong, however.

JDS · « **Reply #8 on:** January 22, 2009, 02:58:02 PM »

Quote from: EmJayBee83 on January 20, 2009, 05:44:17 PM

You have the ending a little bit wrong, however.

You clicked on this thread thinking it was about George Bush, however.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #9 on:** January 22, 2009, 06:11:37 PM »

Quote from: JDS on January 22, 2009, 02:58:02 PM

Quote from: EmJayBee83 on January 20, 2009, 05:44:17 PM
You have the ending a little bit wrong, however.

You clicked on this thread thinking it was about George Bush, however.

HAHAHAHAH

Claude · « **Reply #10 on:** January 22, 2009, 09:12:27 PM »

MOrality is defined as having distinction between right and wrong. In this book, it showed that Benjy failed to do that. When schoolgirls walked past him, he moaned and chased them. As a result, he was castrated.

Both PLATO and ARISTOTLE associated human value with the ability to reason. They differentiated mankind from other living beings by the quality of the intellect. People who lacked the capacity to reason were considered barely human and therefore socially inferior... http://www.faqs.org/childhood/Re-So/Retardation.html

EmJayBee83 · « **Reply #11 on:** January 22, 2009, 09:47:35 PM »

Quote from: Claude Homer Fong on January 22, 2009, 09:12:27 PM

Both PLATO and ARISTOTLE associated human value with the ability to reason. They differentiated mankind from other living beings by the quality of the intellect. People who lacked the capacity to reason were considered barely human and therefore socially inferior... http://www.faqs.org/childhood/Re-So/Retardation.html

If you are interested in seeing where arguing that human life has no inherent moral worth outside of their intellectual capabilities, you can look into the writings of Peter Singer, a "bio-ethicist" from Princeton. His believes that animals can be persons, including rights associated with that concept while "Human babies are not born self-aware or capable of grasping their lives over time. They are not persons. Hence their lives would seem to be no more worthy of protection that the life of a fetus."

Tsavong Lah · « **Reply #12 on:** January 22, 2009, 09:56:16 PM »

Quote

In this book, it showed that Benjy failed to do that. When schoolgirls walked past him, he moaned and chased them. As a result, he was castrated.

Ahh, Faulkner...

The Schaef · « **Reply #13 on:** January 22, 2009, 10:05:37 PM »

Quote from: Claude Homer Fong on January 22, 2009, 09:12:27 PM

MOrality is defined as having distinction between right and wrong. In this book, it showed that Benjy failed to do that. When schoolgirls walked past him, he moaned and chased them. As a result, he was castrated.

Was that because he made a wrong moral choice, or because he responded to the compulsions of his body without understanding that there is a moral choice there, and that he was supposed to exercise restraint? I ask the question innocently, as it's been too long since I've read this to remember precise detail, but the point is that just because he acted that way does not automatically mean that it was the result of a wrong moral choice. At least, not without additional insight into his state of mind.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #14 on:** January 24, 2009, 05:13:05 PM »

Well the question isn't whether he's immoral but amoral.

Colin Michael · « **Reply #15 on:** January 24, 2009, 07:18:17 PM »

Well, whether humans have a desire to be good (as the Greeks thought) or a desire to be evil (original sin,) morals are not a priori. Any perception of right and wrong an autistic person would have would be from their limited perspective (just as are perceptions of right and wrong are from our limited perspective); however, on whether or not an autistic person will choose right or wrong, I actually do not subscribe to the Christian idea of "original sin" but rather the Greek idea of "evil is ignorance."

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #16 on:** January 25, 2009, 12:22:37 AM »

Much like the naturalist, the nihilist, and the new-ager, yes?

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #17 on:** January 25, 2009, 01:40:00 AM »

Quote from: Colin Michael on January 24, 2009, 07:18:17 PM

Well, whether humans have a desire to be good (as the Greeks thought) or a desire to be evil (original sin,) morals are not a priori. Any perception of right and wrong an autistic person would have would be from their limited perspective (just as are perceptions of right and wrong are from our limited perspective); however, on whether or not an autistic person will choose right or wrong, I actually do not subscribe to the Christian idea of "original sin" but rather the Greek idea of "evil is ignorance."

Ignorance in itself is not evil BUT it does breed evil.

Claude · « **Reply #18 on:** January 25, 2009, 09:43:05 PM »

Quote from: The Schaef on January 22, 2009, 10:05:37 PM

Quote from: Claude Homer Fong on January 22, 2009, 09:12:27 PM
MOrality is defined as having distinction between right and wrong. In this book, it showed that Benjy failed to do that. When schoolgirls walked past him, he moaned and chased them. As a result, he was castrated.

Was that because he made a wrong moral choice, or because he responded to the compulsions of his body without understanding that there is a moral choice there, and that he was supposed to exercise restraint? I ask the question innocently, as it's been too long since I've read this to remember precise detail, but the point is that just because he acted that way does not automatically mean that it was the result of a wrong moral choice. At least, not without additional insight into his state of mind.

Well they didnt really specify... He just did coz of his instincts... kind of like a male dog following its instincts when it sees a female dog. In that analysis, he is therefore seen as amoral.

Colin Michael · « **Reply #19 on:** January 25, 2009, 09:54:58 PM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on January 25, 2009, 12:22:37 AM

Much like the naturalist, the nihilist, and the new-ager, yes?

Or the Socrate, the Platonist, and the existentialist.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #20 on:** January 25, 2009, 10:00:51 PM »

Quote from: Colin Michael on January 25, 2009, 09:54:58 PM

Quote from: Minister Polarius on January 25, 2009, 12:22:37 AM
Much like the naturalist, the nihilist, and the new-ager, yes?
Or the Socrate, the Platonist, and the existentialist.

Or the Romulun, Sith, and Wood Elves.

Colin Michael · « **Reply #21 on:** January 25, 2009, 10:04:18 PM »

Quote from: YourMathTeacher on January 25, 2009, 10:00:51 PM

Quote from: Colin Michael on January 25, 2009, 09:54:58 PM
Quote from: Minister Polarius on January 25, 2009, 12:22:37 AM
Much like the naturalist, the nihilist, and the new-ager, yes?
Or the Socrate, the Platonist, and the existentialist.

Or the Romulun, Sith, and Wood Elves.

Or Bono (obviously.)

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #22 on:** January 25, 2009, 10:05:32 PM »

Quote from: Colin Michael on January 25, 2009, 10:04:18 PM

Or Bono (obviously.)

I can't believe I missed him.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #23 on:** January 26, 2009, 12:55:37 AM »

Quote from: Colin Michael on January 25, 2009, 10:04:18 PM

Or Bono (obviously.)

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #24 on:** January 26, 2009, 03:25:29 AM »

Best graph ever.

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Author Topic: Retardation and morality (Read 8963 times)

Lamborghini_diablo

The Schaef

Lamborghini_diablo

Lamborghini_diablo

The Schaef

Lamborghini_diablo