Author Topic: Retardation and morality  (Read 8762 times)

Offline Claude

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Retardation and morality
« on: January 19, 2009, 10:55:33 PM »
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Hey,

     I just read Sound and Fury and I actually hated it but whatever. Anyway, I am suppose to write a paper and I decided to write a paper on how Benjy (this "idiot" or retarded person) is not amoral. Where he does not just present an amoral report of sensations and reactions... but reading in the internet, almost everything points out that retarded people dont have morals. What do you think?
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Lamborghini_diablo

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Re: Retardation and morality
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2009, 11:31:21 PM »
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LOL, I hated that book too. You gotta wonder how much of the "symbolism" in "classics" was actually just thought up by the teachers.

Uhh... thats a very interesting question though. Not quite sure how to answer.

The Schaef

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Re: Retardation and morality
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2009, 09:24:01 AM »
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For what reason would a retarded person not have morals?  An adult may have the intellect of an 8-year-old, but 8-year-olds know right and wrong, they just don't understand complex issues.

Offline JSB23

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Re: Retardation and morality
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2009, 12:00:23 PM »
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For what reason would a retarded person not have morals?  An adult may have the intellect of an 8-year-old, but 8-year-olds know right and wrong, they just don't understand complex issues.
+1
I can say from first hand experience those so called "sources" are 100% wrong
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Offline TheKarazyvicePresidentRR

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Re: Retardation and morality
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2009, 03:07:03 PM »
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Hey,

     I just read Sound and Fury and I actually hated it but whatever. Anyway, I am suppose to write a paper and I decided to write a paper on how Benjy (this "idiot" or retarded person) is not amoral. Where he does not just present an amoral report of sensations and reactions... but reading in the internet, almost everything points out that retarded people dont have morals. What do you think?
Not to sound ignorant but is that the story
Spoiler (hover to show)

IF so, He has morals all the way through that book. As schaef said. Just cuz an education level is at 8, right and wrong is clear.
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Lamborghini_diablo

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Re: Retardation and morality
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2009, 03:14:23 PM »
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Wrong book RR. Idk what one your talking about. lol.

SatF if the one where its written from the four different siblings points of view.

Offline TheKarazyvicePresidentRR

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Re: Retardation and morality
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2009, 03:20:34 PM »
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Ah, Don't think I've read that one.
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Offline EmJayBee83

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Re: Retardation and morality
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2009, 05:44:17 PM »
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RR, the book you were thinking about Flowers for Algernon.

You have the ending a little bit wrong, however.

Offline JDS

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Re: Retardation and morality
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2009, 02:58:02 PM »
+1
You have the ending a little bit wrong, however.

You clicked on this thread thinking it was about George Bush, however.

Lamborghini_diablo

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Re: Retardation and morality
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2009, 06:11:37 PM »
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You have the ending a little bit wrong, however.

You clicked on this thread thinking it was about George Bush, however.

HAHAHAHAH
:rollin:
« Last Edit: January 22, 2009, 07:14:06 PM by Lamborghini_diablo »

Offline Claude

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Re: Retardation and morality
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2009, 09:12:27 PM »
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MOrality is defined as having distinction between right and wrong. In this book, it showed that Benjy failed to do that. When schoolgirls walked past him, he moaned and chased them. As a result, he was castrated.


Both PLATO and ARISTOTLE associated human value with the ability to reason. They differentiated mankind from other living beings by the quality of the intellect. People who lacked the capacity to reason were considered barely human and therefore socially inferior... http://www.faqs.org/childhood/Re-So/Retardation.html

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Offline EmJayBee83

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Re: Retardation and morality
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2009, 09:47:35 PM »
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Both PLATO and ARISTOTLE associated human value with the ability to reason. They differentiated mankind from other living beings by the quality of the intellect. People who lacked the capacity to reason were considered barely human and therefore socially inferior... http://www.faqs.org/childhood/Re-So/Retardation.html

If you are interested in seeing where arguing that human life has no inherent moral worth outside of their intellectual capabilities, you can look into the writings of Peter Singer, a "bio-ethicist" from Princeton. His believes that animals can be persons, including rights associated with that concept while "Human babies are not born self-aware or capable of grasping their lives over time. They are not persons. Hence their lives would seem to be no more worthy of protection that the life of a fetus."

Offline Tsavong Lah

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Re: Retardation and morality
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2009, 09:56:16 PM »
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Quote
In this book, it showed that Benjy failed to do that. When schoolgirls walked past him, he moaned and chased them. As a result, he was castrated.

Ahh, Faulkner...
Χριστὸς ἀνέστη ἐκ νεκρῶν, θανάτῳ θάνατον πατήσας, καὶ τοῖς ἐν τοῖς μνήμασι ζωὴν χαρισάμενος!

The Schaef

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Re: Retardation and morality
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2009, 10:05:37 PM »
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MOrality is defined as having distinction between right and wrong. In this book, it showed that Benjy failed to do that. When schoolgirls walked past him, he moaned and chased them. As a result, he was castrated.

Was that because he made a wrong moral choice, or because he responded to the compulsions of his body without understanding that there is a moral choice there, and that he was supposed to exercise restraint?  I ask the question innocently, as it's been too long since I've read this to remember precise detail, but the point is that just because he acted that way does not automatically mean that it was the result of a wrong moral choice.  At least, not without additional insight into his state of mind.

Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Retardation and morality
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2009, 05:13:05 PM »
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Well the question isn't whether he's immoral but amoral.
I am not talking about T2 unless I am explicitly talking about T2. Also Mayhem is fine now somehow!

Offline Colin Michael

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Re: Retardation and morality
« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2009, 07:18:17 PM »
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Well, whether humans have a desire to be good (as the Greeks thought) or a desire to be evil (original sin,) morals are not a priori. Any perception of right and wrong an autistic person would have would be from their limited perspective (just as are perceptions of right and wrong are from our limited perspective); however, on whether or not an autistic person will choose right or wrong, I actually do not subscribe to the Christian idea of "original sin" but rather the Greek idea of "evil is ignorance."
αθαvαTOι θvηTOι θvηTOι αθαvαTOι ζwvTεs TOv εKειvwv θαvαTov Tov δε εKεivwv βιOv TεθvεwTεs -Heraclitus

Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Retardation and morality
« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2009, 12:22:37 AM »
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Much like the naturalist, the nihilist, and the new-ager, yes?
I am not talking about T2 unless I am explicitly talking about T2. Also Mayhem is fine now somehow!

Offline TheKarazyvicePresidentRR

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Re: Retardation and morality
« Reply #17 on: January 25, 2009, 01:40:00 AM »
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Well, whether humans have a desire to be good (as the Greeks thought) or a desire to be evil (original sin,) morals are not a priori. Any perception of right and wrong an autistic person would have would be from their limited perspective (just as are perceptions of right and wrong are from our limited perspective); however, on whether or not an autistic person will choose right or wrong, I actually do not subscribe to the Christian idea of "original sin" but rather the Greek idea of "evil is ignorance."
Ignorance in itself is not evil BUT it does breed evil.
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Offline Claude

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Re: Retardation and morality
« Reply #18 on: January 25, 2009, 09:43:05 PM »
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MOrality is defined as having distinction between right and wrong. In this book, it showed that Benjy failed to do that. When schoolgirls walked past him, he moaned and chased them. As a result, he was castrated.

Was that because he made a wrong moral choice, or because he responded to the compulsions of his body without understanding that there is a moral choice there, and that he was supposed to exercise restraint?  I ask the question innocently, as it's been too long since I've read this to remember precise detail, but the point is that just because he acted that way does not automatically mean that it was the result of a wrong moral choice.  At least, not without additional insight into his state of mind.
Well they didnt really specify... He just did coz of his instincts... kind of like a male dog following its instincts when it sees a female dog. In that analysis, he is therefore seen as amoral.
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Offline Colin Michael

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Re: Retardation and morality
« Reply #19 on: January 25, 2009, 09:54:58 PM »
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Much like the naturalist, the nihilist, and the new-ager, yes?
Or the Socrate, the Platonist, and the existentialist.
αθαvαTOι θvηTOι θvηTOι αθαvαTOι ζwvTεs TOv εKειvwv θαvαTov Tov δε εKεivwv βιOv TεθvεwTεs -Heraclitus

Offline YourMathTeacher

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Re: Retardation and morality
« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2009, 10:00:51 PM »
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Much like the naturalist, the nihilist, and the new-ager, yes?
Or the Socrate, the Platonist, and the existentialist.

Or the Romulun, Sith, and Wood Elves.
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Offline Colin Michael

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Re: Retardation and morality
« Reply #21 on: January 25, 2009, 10:04:18 PM »
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Much like the naturalist, the nihilist, and the new-ager, yes?
Or the Socrate, the Platonist, and the existentialist.

Or the Romulun, Sith, and Wood Elves.
Or Bono (obviously.)
αθαvαTOι θvηTOι θvηTOι αθαvαTOι ζwvTεs TOv εKειvwv θαvαTov Tov δε εKεivwv βιOv TεθvεwTεs -Heraclitus

Offline YourMathTeacher

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Re: Retardation and morality
« Reply #22 on: January 25, 2009, 10:05:32 PM »
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Or Bono (obviously.)

 :doh:  I can't believe I missed him.
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Lamborghini_diablo

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Re: Retardation and morality
« Reply #23 on: January 26, 2009, 12:55:37 AM »
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Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Retardation and morality
« Reply #24 on: January 26, 2009, 03:25:29 AM »
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Best graph ever.
I am not talking about T2 unless I am explicitly talking about T2. Also Mayhem is fine now somehow!

 


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