Cactus Game Design Message Boards

Although I haven't been on the forums much due to work and real life I have been talking to the community a little bit.  This post isn't meant to stir up any drama.  I have become friends with John "kariusvega" over the past several months and am curious if he will be able to be unbanned?   He has become a pretty good friend and I am hoping something can be done even if that means certain topics need to stay avoided.

I have had a number of private communications with J.D. before and after Nationals.  It's a difficult situation.  It's hard to know how much to share about it.  Much has been made over the one video showing how he shuffled his deck.  I sincerely believe that reasonable people of good conscience could interpret that video as either an intentional effort to gain an advantage or not.  The judges on site reviewed it and made a decision and I stand by them.  I sense no ill intent or conspiracy on the part of the judges. Situations at other tournaments prior to Nationals perhaps had them on alert and because of these, they may have been less inclined to give J.D. a pass.  I have shared these other situations with J.D.

Beyond the above, I believe things got to the point before and after Nationals where J.D.'s posts on the forums and elsewhere were bad for the community and the game.  He is very passionate about the game and very intelligent.  Without him our community is diminished.  I initially tried a partial ban where he could not post but could still login to the boards.  That didn't work.  So, I put his account on a full ban.  Since then I have tried to find common ground with him and work toward reconciliation.  My exchanges with him have not gone well.  He has been seemingly unwilling to concede even the possibility that anything he did at the regional tournament in TN or at Nationals could be wrong.  Rather, he thinks certain elders are out to get him and that I am failing the game miserably by not launching a game app, spending sufficient advertising dollars, and doing other promotions to make the game what he believes it can be.

Some of the players who are closer to him have also been talking to him to try to find a way ahead.  My hope is that he can rejoin us on the boards at some point.  But, we are not there yet.

Keep praying.  Prayers are never in vain.  This prayer in particular could do much for all of us involved in this situation
https://www.ewtn.com/devotionals/prayers/humility.htm

I really appreciate and respect the response Rob.  Thank you. 

Let me start by saying

I consider JD a friend. He is an excellent player and he wants to see the game grow. 

That said, I believe JD has struggled to be honest with himself pertaining to his actions.  While he has come to a place where he has conceded to "free mulligans" at the regional tournament, he has refused to recognize other areas of wrong doing. He has used particular verbiage and finger pointing to convince himself that he is innocent of all other wrong doing and that there is a conspiracy against him. This so called conspiracy was supposedly generated because "top players" and "elders"  are intimidated by him and don't want him as competition.  He has held firm on on his position that Rob hasn't done and isn't doing the things he should to promote the game. While this is an ok opinion to hold, it has become more hostile then it should because of the connection to everything else.

I personally believe this issue stands where it should until JD is willing to reconsider his position on the "conspiracy" and to apologize to several memembers of the community privately.  There should also be some form of public reconciliation since these events occurred publicly.

Until then the issue probably needs to be left alone. Lobbying for him, digging for answers and talking more about it are all fruitless endeavors.  If you want to do something about it, I suggest continuing to pray. Pray for JD, pray the elders, pray for Rob, pray for Redemption above all pray that truth would lay hold in every heart involved.

I didn't think you were trying to stir the pot. I personally wish we would've just laid out something like the above post sooner then today. Being a "newer" member of the leadership team I don't want to over step my bounds. Sometimes that attempt at humility has turned into timidity.

Hopefully the information I provided will satisfy for now. I don't want to cross into gossip but since this occurred publicly, some public knowledge is probably necessary. 

"If you don't X,Y,Z, then bye"... This is like the definition of Religion. Earning forgiveness is an oxymoron.

Forgiveness is already given regardless of where JD ends up on this. Reconciliation is necessary for the protection of the flock.

Forgiveness should be given freely (as Jesus did). Trust on the other hand, must be earned.

Pretty sure trust is a two-way street.

What exactly do you mean by this?

It comes across that you are inferring that Justin, myself, the elder team and Rob are not trustworthy. If that is what you mean then vague, passive aggressive statements on a public forum are not the answer. A conversation with the people you have an issue with would be appropriate. That is the starting place for a path scripture suggests for conflict resolution.

Quote from: TheHobbit on February 18, 2018, 12:07:19 AM

"If you don't X,Y,Z, then bye"... This is like the definition of Religion. Earning forgiveness is an oxymoron.

I think you have a misunderstanding of how forgiveness relates to reconciliation. God will forgive everyone freely, but not everyone will get to heaven. People can reject God's forgiveness if they choose. In order for there to be reconciliation, there must be repentance. The reconciliation of Nineveh is a good example.

Nineveh didn't ask to be forgiven initially, apparently they were not convinced of their error, yet they were forgiven. Sounds familiar. Moving on, the order is not applied correctly in this situation, a conflict that one party did not feel was fully resolved notwithstanding. Asking for forgiveness is not a prerequisite for receiving forgiveness. But the general consensus seems to be apology, forgiveness, then reconciliation (i.e. we will cancel your debt once it's paid... Hence, Religious/Legalistic):

I personally believe this issue stands where it should until JD is willing to reconsider his position on the "conspiracy" and to apologize to several members of the community privately.  There should also be some form of public reconciliation since these events occurred publicly......Until then the issue probably needs to be left alone

Quote from: TheHobbit on February 18, 2018, 01:03:59 AM

Pretty sure trust is a two-way street.

What exactly do you mean by this?

It comes across that you are inferring that Justin, myself, the elder team and Rob are not trustworthy. If that is what you mean then vague, passive aggressive statements on a public forum are not the answer. A conversation with the people you have an issue with would be appropriate. That is the starting place for a path scripture suggests for conflict resolution.

I mean I see no reason to trust prayer as a conflict management strategy, especially when all options have not been exhausted. Remember "digging for answers" is a "fruitless endeavor" because people want it to be. To be fair the community was promised the release of the video. But that's not what I was posting about. I assure you that my previous post was passive. Like saying, "I think the world is round" rather than saying "The world is round". I thought it was clear considering we are talking about JD, but I was referring too the elders trusting JD not to break forum rules and JD trusting the elders' judgement again. Two ways.

It just depends what part of the story you look at. God sent Jonah to Nineveh before they were repentant.They didn't figure out their error on their own. Sounds forgiving to me. But either way you have to show that forgiveness always comes after reconciliation to add anything relevant to the discussion. Jesus had a forgive first attitude as seen in his statements on the cross and with the woman caught in adultery. But I don't know why you didn't address any of my other main points. I don't see the point in waiting for a change of heart when there has been no admission of wrong doing on. He wanted to see the video, because he believed he was innocent. Honestly, withholding that, for what ever wise reason, does not push him closer to an admission. If that's the goal.... but rather it feeds the "conspiracy" theory. 

Quote from: TheHobbit on February 18, 2018, 09:59:04 PM

I mean I see no reason to trust prayer as a conflict management strategy, ...

I trust God more than man. Prayer is more powerful than you realize.

That's an elegant line, but probably belongs in a fortune cookie rather than a discussion were the idea is to justify our points of view. And btw, the burden of proof is on you to show that prayer works with enough frequency to justify waiting around when there are other things that could be done. I mean not by us peasants, but I am at least giving myself the dignity to just wait. No wishful thinking, just waiting.

It just depends what part of the story you look at. God sent Jonah to Nineveh before they were repentant.They didn't figure out their error on their own. Sounds forgiving to me.

It may sound that way, but it is not. Abraham pleaded on Sodom and Gomorrah's behalf, but they were not repentant and the cities were destroyed.

But either way you have to show that forgiveness always comes after reconciliation to add anything relevant to the discussion.

No, actually I don't. This thread is referring to one specific occurance, and so is Nineveh.

.... but rather it feeds the "conspiracy" theory. 

Speaking of Conspiracy Theories, don't you find it odd that all of the battleships in the U.S. Pacific fleet were anchored in Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941, but none of the aircraft carriers were anywhere near Hawaii? 

That's an elegant line, but probably belongs in a fortune cookie rather than a discussion were the idea is to justify our points of view.

Interestingly, many Proverbs from the Bible are in fortune cookies, so I consider myself in good company. 

And btw, the burden of proof is on you to show that prayer works with enough frequency to justify waiting around when there are other things that could be done.

No, it isn't. I will trust in God regardless of what men will say (Christian or non-Christian). The Bible is very specific about how to handle conflict resolution, and it is likely that the PTB have pursued that path. The end of that path, when there is no repentance, is to let the person go.

I mean not by us peasants, ...

Am I the only one that started thinking about Monty Python here? "Help! Help! I'm being oppressed! 

-----------------------

FTR, your disdain for Christian viewpoints is duly noted, as is your signature line. 

But either way you have to show that forgiveness always comes after reconciliation to add anything relevant to the discussion.

No, actually I don't. This thread is referring to one specific occurance, and so is Nineveh.

And btw, the burden of proof is on you to show that prayer works with enough frequency to justify waiting around when there are other things that could be done.

No, it isn't. I will trust in God regardless of what men will say (Christian or non-Christian). The Bible is very specific about how to handle conflict resolution, and it is likely that the PTB have pursued that path. The end of that path, when there is no repentance, is to let the person go.

Well the problem is it's often difficult to discern what is and isn't from God, so if you don't justify your conclusions here you run the risk of being wrong. I mean yeah, you don't have to do anything but I mean if you want to convince people of your position, then you do. Because your position is not obvious and is actually counter intuitive and lacking in sufficient evidence. Prayer, in this case, is basically wishing your will to an infinitely powerful God, he acts. aka letting the situation play out for itself. Which in this case, has been the opposite of a resolution strategy (e.g. not being willing to release the video when specifically asked by the other party, leading to and exchange of words and a ban). The crux of what I am getting at is waiting/praying until the opposing party, who has admitted to nothing, does x,y,z is not a policy. Not that this is the policy, though leanings toward it have come across in Rob and Josiah's post.

FTR, your disdain for Christian viewpoints is duly noted

You say this likes it's a bad thing but you haven't even qualified what is Christian or not. A lot of what people think is Christian is derived from the unfortunate canonization of everything authentic and seemingly congruous to the gospels at the council of Nicaea. It is one thing to gather documentation to a centralized point, it is entirely another to assume that the holy spirit makes flawed human beings perfect and therefore officially label the Bible as the ultimate authority of God. Again, un-justified wishful thinking.  What is justified is what Jesus said, and how he live his life. Not what the apostle's think Jesus means. They are open to constructive criticism. So yeah, prayer is a very culturally conditioned thing in the Christian church. Though Jesus practiced it was never a substitute for doing when things could be done. Everyone ought to question their beliefs at some point and ask themselves is this what Jesus taught or is this what men think he taught (aka any part of the Bible that doesn't involve Jesus doing or speaking).

Answering your original comment. "Christian view points" and "view points that Christians" hold are very different concepts.  The first is Christian by definition and the other not necessarily Christian. Of course I have disdain for culturally influenced Christian viewpoints masquerading as Christian. I also have disdain for some personalities Christianity attracts that are decidedly nosey, self-righteous, just plain illogical, delusional, infatuated with God, etc. None of which I have seen on here until a mild glimpse of  some combination of the previous  in Josiah's post which, based on my life experiences I have to speak out against. I trust that you understand this sentiment because of your experiences with cheating and subsequent crusade against it.

 

Let me begin by quoting LotR:

I think at last we understand one another Frodo Baggins.

-----------------------------------------

I trust that you understand this sentiment because of your experiences with cheating and subsequent crusade against it.

I do understand, and I'm sorry that you have had to endure more than your fair share of improper "Christianity."

FTR, I start each school year telling my students two things:

1. If anything that I say contradicts the Bible, then believe the Bible, not me.
2. If you think something in the Bible contradicts what Jesus said, then do what Jesus said.

----------------------------------

With regard to prayer, I take prayer very seriously. I have always been uncomfortable praying out loud because I fear that I will be too concerned about what I am saying (and what the listeners are hearing), when instead I should be focusing on the Holy God I am supposed to be talking to. However, I think prayer does lead to action by God, because prayer is ultimately my acceptance that God can solve problems better than I can. My human wisdom often shortchanges my faith. I don't trust God enough because I feel like I should be doing it myself. The Bible often says to "Wait on the Lord," but I am too impatient to allow God's Hand to move in His time rather than mine.

--------------------------

Everyone ought to question their beliefs at some point and ask themselves is this what Jesus taught or is this what men think he taught

I assume that you are generalizing here (which is fine), so just to clarify, I have indeed worked through that process for many years. I am quite familiar with canonization. What I have found through my life experiences is that when I wait for God to act, He always comes through in ways I did not expect, just often times at the last possible moment (maybe testing my faith?). The times that I grew impatient and decided to do what I thought He wanted, I ended up in a mess. As a teacher, I really don't want people to make the same mistakes that I have made.

------------------------

Back on topic, I frankly don't have strong feelings about what to do with the JD situation. I wasn't there, I did not watch the videos, and I don't want to. I have read the posts by all relevant parties, and I am inclined to believe that Rob and the others have made sincere attempts to reconcile a very difficult incident. I do not think that the idea of a cover-up is legitimate. Again, I can only speak from my own experiences, so I will give an example that is meant to clarify my feelings, not a definitive parallel to the current situation:

As a teacher, if a student is disrupting my class, I will do what I can on a personal level to get that person to stop being a disruption. If that fails, then I will follow the protocol given to me by the school. If it still continues, then the administrators may have to make a decision to remove that student from my class (i.e. suspension). None of this has anything to do with my personal feelings about the student. Deep inside I would like to be able to teach that student just like the others in the class. However, administrative decisions have to consider the impact that the one student's behavior has on the rest of the class.