Author Topic: petition to end big deck t2 wanna be decks in t1 (Read 15075 times)

christiangamer25 · « **on:** December 14, 2010, 03:38:59 AM »

i hereby petition to have max deck size in t1 2p changed to 63 cards with 8 ls no deck needs to ever be bigger then this and people that want to play bigger decks should just go play t2 as its what the type was designed to be and stop ruining t1 for everyone. all in favor please reply im just sick and tired of losing games i should realistically win because of the size of my opponets deck. everyone that knows me personally knows i don't play t2 and i hate it im an avid t12p player and have been for years. i just feel this game is getting to the point where games are being ruined just because its impossible to beat these 100 card beasts that get to duplicate there entire key parts of there deck and not have to worry about losing a card and it effecting there overall strategy at all. not to mention they are a complete joke and are really only played online cause of the lack of time restrictions. i feel there is no way a legitimate deck can ever be bigger then 63 cards and win in a official tourney capacity with timers as they are. I'm making this post to simply see where other peoples opinion are. i'm not trying to rant but maybe i am anyway please please please reply to this with your opinion no smartalec criticisms please this is an issue ive been struggling with for a long time and i finally snapped.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #1 on:** December 14, 2010, 09:22:22 AM »

FWIW, I have won several real life tournaments with my 70 card Heroless deck, and Kevin Shride took 2nd (or was it 3rd?) at Nationals with a 150 card deck. I know it can be frustrating to face a deck like that, especially when they are so uncommon that it's hard to prepare for them, but it's part of the game.

I personally wouldn't mind seeing a T1 deck limit of 100 (or 105 I guess), but I think that having an option to have at least two copies of various cards in your deck should be allowed for T1.

If more people agree, a more stringent time limit is something that will probably be discussed for ROOT in the near future. It won't ever be the same as a real life tournament because of the natural lag that RTS provides, but it might be shortened to 75 or 90 minutes.

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #2 on:** December 14, 2010, 09:29:18 AM »

Now, Now, Kevin played that 150 card deck for one game at that Nationals. Don't be misrepresenting what it did, It was a pure counter-Tim Maly deck.

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #3 on:** December 14, 2010, 09:40:27 AM »

Third place at Nationals was a 70 carder.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #4 on:** December 14, 2010, 09:52:56 AM »

There's a simple answer to beating bigger decks: get your SoG/NJ faster.
*cue endless debate*

I AM DANIEL · « **Reply #5 on:** December 14, 2010, 10:38:23 AM »

i think the best way to beat a 150 card deck is to use one.

Daniel TS RED · « **Reply #6 on:** December 14, 2010, 10:53:14 AM »

I believe they're not used as much because it is actually a disadvantage to the user of the big deck. I can see where 63 and 70 card decks can be an advantage, but if you look at what most top players choose to use, it's in the 50-56 card range. T1 is a race to 3 and when you use a ton more cards it's just hurting you. I believe most 100-150 card decks could actually be better without the duplicates. Rarely do I see a 100+ T1 deck and rarely does it win in my opinion. If you're trying to do abom, you might as well use a super big deck. Other than that, I really don't see the advantage to it. If your deck is tailored to beat a speedy 50-56 card deck, there's really no difference when you come up against a 100+ carder.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #7 on:** December 14, 2010, 12:37:48 PM »

The problem with too-big decks in my opinion is they're total spoilers. I guarantee you nobody will ever win a major T1 tournament using a 100+ card deck every game. They time out and lose at least once because of their bulk, making it impossible to actually win a tournament, even if your opponents never get to five, making it super-frustrating for the player with a clearly-better deck who got 2 points instead of 3 just because someone was being cute with their deck choice.

But it goes from frustrating to maddening when it's on RTS, and especially ROOT. 100+ card decks are worse than 50-63 card decks. There's basically no denying that. But in ROOT, you're using RTS and playing with a MUCH longer time limit, somewhat mitigating the natural deterrent to playing an awful, bloated deck. And while fat decks will lose 90% of the time, it's extremely frustrating when you're in that 10% for a tournament game and loose because of sheer luck (150 cards in a lot of room for LS's to get lost in).

T1 was not designed for huge decks. That's what T2 is for. I'd be all for lowering the limit to 105 cards for T1, and I'd be for lowering the limit to 98 cards in a ROOT game.

The Guardian · « **Reply #8 on:** December 14, 2010, 01:06:43 PM »

I think I will start a petition to ban the playing of Mayhem in the opening round. I've lost several games mostly due to this unfortunate occurrence of sheer luck...

Quote

And while fat decks will lose 90% of the time,

My "fat" deck has lost one game, had another game where I lost 4-2 in mutual lockout and has won about 6 or so games. Some poor, stubborn player must be doing REALLY poorly with his...

adotson85 · « **Reply #9 on:** December 14, 2010, 01:22:40 PM »

Quote from: The Guardian on December 14, 2010, 01:06:43 PM

I think I will start a petition to ban the playing of Mayhem in the opening round. I've lost several games mostly due to this unfortunate occurrence of sheer luck...

I second this and also make it a rule that it is illegal to activate rain becomes dust first round after I have played First Fruits. I could see maybe cutting down T1 decks to 105, especially in ROOT. I haven't run into any lately, but have played them in the past and they can be very annoying/boring.

christiangamer25 · « **Reply #10 on:** December 14, 2010, 01:25:28 PM »

105 doesn't accomplish the goal of killing dupes

Red · « **Reply #11 on:** December 14, 2010, 01:35:10 PM »

If you can't out speed and outplay a deck with 100-150 cards you or your deck is to blame. Most likely the latter.

christiangamer25 · « **Reply #12 on:** December 14, 2010, 01:37:23 PM »

once again says somebody who has never suffered the pain of abom WHICH NEEDS BANNED

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #13 on:** December 14, 2010, 01:37:39 PM »

Quote from: The Guardian on December 14, 2010, 01:06:43 PM

I think I will start a petition to ban the playing of Mayhem in the opening round. I've lost several games mostly due to this unfortunate occurrence of sheer luck...

That's different and you know why. It's luck based on drawing, not deckbuilding. Good decks build to minimize the reliance on luck, not depend on it.

Quote from: Red on December 14, 2010, 01:35:10 PM

If you can't out speed and outplay a deck with 100-150 cards you or your deck is to blame. Most likely the latter.

That's the thing, most of the time it's an easy win assuming your opponent plays quickly and just takes the loss instead of legally stalling. But just because of the nature of a fat deck, every once in a while they'll draw no Lost Souls and be able to win a war of attrition against a normal defense.

Rawrlolsauce! · « **Reply #14 on:** December 14, 2010, 01:39:26 PM »

Abom isn't that good. It has been a blast in teams, though

.

The Guardian · « **Reply #15 on:** December 14, 2010, 01:48:12 PM »

Quote

That's different and you know why. It's luck based on drawing, not deckbuilding.

Every once in awhile a big deck has a great draw in terms of the number of Lost Souls drawn early in the game.

Every once in awhile any type of deck draws Mayhem opening hand.

How is that different?

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #16 on:** December 14, 2010, 02:04:41 PM »

I don't know enough about statistics to know why it's different, but I know enough to know that it is.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #17 on:** December 14, 2010, 02:19:59 PM »

The odds of drawing a Mayhem in the Openng hand in a standard 50-63 card deck are actually higher than the odds of soul burying in a 150 card deck.

stefferweffer · « **Reply #18 on:** December 14, 2010, 02:43:59 PM »

I like the 105 card idea to allow duplicates for those that want them. If it is just lost souls being buried that is the problem, then I thought that "speed" decks had many ways around this. Hur, Mayhem, Harvest Time, Woman at the Well, Hopper, Am Slave, etc. As has been stated, is it really that hard to get 3 lost souls against a 150 card deck because of lost soul drought, or is it really that they have a nigh unstoppable defense?

Don't get me wrong - I'll never make a T1 deck over 105 cards (my largest so far has been 70), but it seems to me that a 50-56 carder "should" be able to beat out a 150 card deck. Then again, I don't play online.

The Schaef · « **Reply #19 on:** December 14, 2010, 02:59:40 PM »

Buried souls can happen in any game regardless of type or size. The last time I played Guardian online, he literally drew one soul the entire game, and all but one of the cards at the end of his deck were his entire complement of Lost Souls. And this was in a game where he had to shuffle a couple times. That just happens.

Decks like these don't seem that hard to plan around; just toss in a Hopper and a Harvest Time if drought is a concern. Those plus SoG/NJ give you at least partial control of 80% of your own Redeemed Soul count.

christiangamer25 · « **Reply #20 on:** December 14, 2010, 03:19:10 PM »

the soul drought aint as big as an issue as duplicates oh look i get rid of something blam its back and ive exhausted the resources getting rid of it the first time its just plain cheap to have duplicates in t1 and thats my opinion period.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #21 on:** December 14, 2010, 03:25:30 PM »

It's a strategy that has its own advantages (duplicate key cards) and disadvantages (Drawing).

christiangamer25 · « **Reply #22 on:** December 14, 2010, 03:27:27 PM »

disadvantage (drawing) thats a joke got freaking everything last night and still got creamed

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #23 on:** December 14, 2010, 03:29:36 PM »

I've used 100+ decks as you know, and they can have problems with draws.

If you feel they're so overpowered, try one out yourself and you'll see what I mean.

The Schaef · « **Reply #24 on:** December 14, 2010, 03:29:50 PM »

Quote from: christiangamer25 on December 14, 2010, 03:19:10 PM

the soul drought aint as big as an issue as duplicates oh look i get rid of something blam its back and ive exhausted the resources getting rid of it the first time its just plain cheap to have duplicates in t1 and thats my opinion period.

Yes, but they have the same hand limit as you per turn, and the problem with having uniques in your deck is that you can't put them both down to reduce your hand size. A player might be able to put down a TSA right behind the one you Martyr, or he might be forced to discard his other one without playing it at all, because he has a handful of better cards.

Or they might get buried and he won't see either one before you are long gone with five.

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Author Topic: petition to end big deck t2 wanna be decks in t1 (Read 15075 times)

Warrior_Monk

I AM DANIEL

Rawrlolsauce!

The Schaef

Lamborghini_diablo

Lamborghini_diablo

The Schaef