Author Topic: New set speculation (Read 13853 times)

ChristianSoldier · « **Reply #25 on:** March 14, 2014, 05:29:16 PM »

Quote from: Alex_Olijar on March 14, 2014, 04:57:17 PM

Set rotation imo

Set rotation could be a big help for Redemption, at least from a game play standpoint. However I don't know how it would affect the business side of it, since it works best if the sets consistently sell out as they rotate so that when the sets rotate Cactus Games doesn't end up with boxes of unsold cards that nobody wants because the cards aren't legal anymore. However that isn't much different than having boxes of unsold cards because the cards are mostly obsolete.

We could also do some kind of middle ground, like MtG does, where 1 format has everything, and 1 format has the last N sets, broken up further into T1, T2, multi, the various closed deck formats. The bigger issue is that we need both the players to accept it and the designers to back it up by building sets that support the set rotation.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #26 on:** March 14, 2014, 05:38:03 PM »

I should have finished my set rotation article. It works.

Master KChief · « **Reply #27 on:** March 14, 2014, 06:17:56 PM »

Set rotation works for games that have a large enough pool of cards that are able to sustain themselves if another select block of cards were rotated out. Since Redemption sets were never designed with that in mind coupled with the fact expansions are released few and far between (with the latest sets containing fewer cards in comparison to previous earlier sets), it would be a huge undertaking and take a massive overhaul from a design standpoint to implement set rotation. What, we'd be looking at block rotation every 4-5 years with the rate of expansions/cards we get at this point?

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #28 on:** March 14, 2014, 06:56:00 PM »

Who said we needed a consistent rotation? It isn't about game balancing, it's about getting rid of cards that have messy wording and giving more possibilities for future sets.

Master KChief · « **Reply #29 on:** March 14, 2014, 07:25:45 PM »

If people are behind the idea of purging from the game just the 'messy' worded cards with no correlation to actual gameplay balancing, then we should probably avoid using the phrase 'set rotation' as that is exactly what the idea champions: removing a block of cards in exchange for a future block. Consistently.

And here I thought recent reprints already addressed the issue of sloppily worded cards.

AJ · « **Reply #30 on:** March 14, 2014, 07:40:20 PM »

We could do a Reboot block which has only cards from IJ up and have traditional Redemption which all cards can be used in just a thought.

Sadness · « **Reply #31 on:** March 14, 2014, 07:54:58 PM »

Is the new set going to be released in tins or packs(like priests) or box packs(like Texp)?

Also is the new brigade cover both sides? The only difference to tell it apart is the cross or dragon on the card.

AJ · « **Reply #32 on:** March 14, 2014, 08:00:53 PM »

Quote from: Sadness on March 14, 2014, 07:54:58 PM

Is the new set going to be released in tins or packs(like priests) or box packs(like Texp)?

Also is the new brigade cover both sides? The only difference to tell it apart is the cross or dragon on the card.

Well there is no definite brigade and if there was, it would most likely be a good brigade.

_JM_ · « **Reply #33 on:** March 14, 2014, 10:23:42 PM »

Quote from: Sadness on March 14, 2014, 07:54:58 PM

Is the new set going to be released in tins or packs(like priests) or box packs(like Texp)?

Read the kickstarter thread right below this one for the full discussion, but at this point it seems like we're getting either a Priests style or TexP style expansion.

EmJayBee83 · « **Reply #34 on:** March 15, 2014, 02:03:39 AM »

Quote from: Alex_Olijar on March 14, 2014, 05:38:03 PM

I should have finished my set rotation article. It works.

The LCG distribution model works even better.

ChristianSoldier · « **Reply #35 on:** March 15, 2014, 12:17:39 PM »

Quote from: AJ on March 15, 2014, 07:42:06 AM

I disagree. LCGs never outsell MTG and MtG uses set rotation so I say go set rotation route I would play.

That's not a fair comparison, MtG has been an established game for quite a long time, while most LCGs are relatively new and still fairly small. To try and compare Set Rotation to LCG format by comparing how MtG sales compare to any LCG is completely ridiculous.

Isildur · « **Reply #36 on:** March 15, 2014, 12:18:47 PM »

Quote from: AJ on March 15, 2014, 07:42:06 AM

I disagree. LCGs never outsell MTG and MtG uses set rotation so I say go set rotation route I would play.

?? Where did that come from? Magic outsells every game on the planet because it has a gigantic player base spanning over the past 20 years lol...

TheMarti · « **Reply #37 on:** March 15, 2014, 12:24:11 PM »

Quote from: EmJayBee83 on March 15, 2014, 08:30:39 AM

Quote from: AJ on March 15, 2014, 07:42:06 AM
Quote from: EmJayBee83 on March 15, 2014, 02:03:39 AM
Quote from: Alex_Olijar on March 14, 2014, 05:38:03 PM
I should have finished my set rotation article. It works.
The LCG distribution model works even better.

I disagree. LCGs never outsell MTG and MtG uses set rotation so I say go set rotation route I would play.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

First off, please be more polite. Yes, that piece of information was stated without a lot of knowledge of the industry, but it's no reason to act rude.

Second, if you don't know what you're talking about (which, with some people's age and lack of experience, you may not), think before you post, please. Don't just talk to talk.

EmJayBee83 · « **Reply #38 on:** March 15, 2014, 02:29:36 PM »

I removed my post. I apologize for not responding more kindly to preposterous statements. If it helps, I actually did laugh out loud when I read the comment I was responding to.

The Guardian · « **Reply #39 on:** March 15, 2014, 03:01:06 PM »

Quote from: EmJayBee83 on March 15, 2014, 02:29:36 PM

I removed my post. I apologize for not responding more kindly to preposterous statements. If it helps, I actually did laugh out loud when I read the comment I was responding to.

Those who have met you know that your cheery laugh comes across so much better in person than online

Korunks · « **Reply #40 on:** March 15, 2014, 03:11:53 PM »

I fail to understand how an LCG model would be superior unless we had a new start point. Pardon my ignorance but in an LCG all printed cards are viable for tournament play? If that is the case then it appears the problem isn't with either distribution model IMO, it's with the fact that some of the older cards in redemption are either outdated in their wording or they are too strong.

If a new format were to be unveiled (With the idea in mind of maintaining an unrestricted format that is like the current play style) given our current setup wouldn't a ban list be more effective?

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #41 on:** March 15, 2014, 04:29:49 PM »

Quote from: Korunks on March 15, 2014, 03:11:53 PM

I fail to understand how an LCG model would be superior unless we had a new start point. Pardon my ignorance but in an LCG all printed cards are viable for tournament play? If that is the case then it appears the problem isn't with either distribution model IMO, it's with the fact that some of the older cards in redemption are either outdated in their wording or they are too strong.

If a new format were to be unveiled (With the idea in mind of maintaining an unrestricted format that is like the current play style) given our current setup wouldn't a ban list be more effective?

I'll finish my article about this I guess haha. But the answer is no.

Master KChief · « **Reply #42 on:** March 15, 2014, 04:40:34 PM »

Quote from: Korunks on March 15, 2014, 03:11:53 PM

If that is the case then it appears the problem isn't with either distribution model IMO, it's with the fact that some of the older cards in redemption are either outdated in their wording or they are too strong.

If a new format were to be unveiled (With the idea in mind of maintaining an unrestricted format that is like the current play style) given our current setup wouldn't a ban list be more effective?

The way the game is currently designed it would be the most logical, a la Yugioh style. And as you mentioned, you can also keep a more 'traditional' format with no ban list that retains every card.

TheMarti · « **Reply #43 on:** March 15, 2014, 05:45:04 PM »

All unrelated posts have been removed, including my own. Please stay on topic.

EmJayBee83 · « **Reply #44 on:** March 15, 2014, 05:59:27 PM »

Quote from: Korunks on March 15, 2014, 03:11:53 PM

I fail to understand how an LCG model would be superior unless we had a new start point. Pardon my ignorance but in an LCG all printed cards are viable for tournament play? If that is the case then it appears the problem isn't with either distribution model IMO, it's with the fact that some of the older cards in redemption are either outdated in their wording or they are too strong.

I believe we would need to have a new start point for an LCG model to work. This doesn't necessarily mean a completely new print set, but could be a selective pruning of what is currently available. For players that already own cards, this could take the form of a ban list. There would need to be some means, however, for new players to get a hold of the base set.

Quote

If a new format were to be unveiled (With the idea in mind of maintaining an unrestricted format that is like the current play style) given our current setup wouldn't a ban list be more effective?

I think we need to wait for Olijar to explain more about what he is thinking. From Westy's comments it appears to be some form of rolling ban list coinciding with the introduction of new sets.

Quote from: AJ on March 14, 2014, 07:40:20 PM

We could do a Reboot block which has only cards from IJ up and have traditional Redemption which all cards can be used in just a thought.

Given the 90+ unique cards in I/J plus Rob's 200+ card set, a reboot block of this type would be roughly the size of Unlimited + Prophets + 1/2 of Women. This is plenty of cards for a viable game.

Master KChief · « **Reply #45 on:** March 15, 2014, 06:45:02 PM »

I would not be opposed to a reboot. Especially given the new card format in IJ, it could be the aesthetic mark of a new start.

AJ · « **Reply #46 on:** March 15, 2014, 06:54:54 PM »

Quote from: Master KChief on March 15, 2014, 06:45:02 PM

I would not be opposed to a reboot. Especially given the new card format in IJ, it could be the aesthetic mark of a new start.

So agree it would be awesome to Reboot. No more Thad !

Isildur · « **Reply #47 on:** March 15, 2014, 08:33:13 PM »

Quote from: EmJayBee83 on March 15, 2014, 05:59:27 PM

Given the 90+ unique cards in I/J plus Rob's 200+ card set, a reboot block of this type would be roughly the size of Unlimited + Prophets + 1/2 of Women. This is plenty of cards for a viable game.

As much as I would like a reboot the set currently in the works is not a reboot set...

Maybe we the players could help draft a potential reboot set we could use as alternative? The selling format would obviously have to be different though then the planned TexP style packs for the current set...

EmJayBee83 · « **Reply #48 on:** March 16, 2014, 10:45:00 PM »

Quote from: Isildur on March 15, 2014, 08:33:13 PM

Quote from: EmJayBee83 on March 15, 2014, 05:59:27 PM
Given the 90+ unique cards in I/J plus Rob's 200+ card set, a reboot block of this type would be roughly the size of Unlimited + Prophets + 1/2 of Women. This is plenty of cards for a viable game.
As much as I would like a reboot the set currently in the works is not a reboot set...

That does appear to be the case.

Quote

Maybe we the players could help draft a potential reboot set we could use as alternative?

I think it might be more feasible to try to convince the PTB to consider setting the early church set aside for the time being and work on a reboot set. This would be with the hope that the reboot would attract a new set of players and re-vitalize Redemption overall in ways an expansion could not. To this end, one huge advantage of a reboot set is that it is easier to market a "new-ish" game to a new player base (and on Kickstarter) than it would be to market the 16th?!? expansion to a game.

Quote

The selling format would obviously have to be different though then the planned TexP style packs for the current set...

Although I think I have previously made my feelings clear on how I think Redemption could best be marketed going forward, I don't think that you would necessarily have to change from a TexP style pack if people chose not to. You could simply define the a base set of existing cards that you want to include in a reboot (and give them a cool marketing name like "Redemption Retro"), and splash them into the reboot packs.

DrowningFish · « **Reply #49 on:** March 16, 2014, 10:55:04 PM »

I find it weird that there's 7 evil brigades but 8 good brigades . Just want it to be even (sorry bout the OCD) but I believe making a new brigade does need to happen soon. Give the game a new "zing" to it

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Author Topic: New set speculation (Read 13853 times)

Warrior_Monk

TheMarti

TheMarti