Cactus Game Design Message Boards

Open Forum => Off-Topic => Topic started by: drb1200 on April 26, 2013, 09:05:49 AM

Title: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: drb1200 on April 26, 2013, 09:05:49 AM
(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/379968_10201192580802972_2004033570_n.jpg)
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(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/97804213/Lost-Soul.jpg)
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Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: TimMierz on April 26, 2013, 09:13:40 AM
Woah. Redesign. It was hinted at, but I expected it to just be a joke. But I saw that Rob posted these on his Facebook page, so this is legit.

My first instinct was that I dislike the new font choices, but I'll wait until I see larger images before I pass judgment. The special abilities definitely seem way easier to read, which is major. But if the ability text is as Arial as it seems... I might end up actually preferring the old design. (I feel bad being so negative, especially as the first post on the thread, but luckily most people care far less about typefaces than I do, so I doubt my opinion will carry much weight.)
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: drb1200 on April 26, 2013, 09:18:06 AM
I agree about the type. Grail looked so much classier, however I'm flattered that Redemption went ahead with a redesign. The images are clearer to see so that's a plus.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on April 26, 2013, 09:30:31 AM
Can someone post the facebook link? I hardly ever use it and I can't find Rob on there.

I'm flattered that Redemption went ahead with a redesign

I have to ask, did they contact you about the redesign specifically?

We both had the same concept for this redesign, and even then this design is different from what either of us worked up (primarily the rounded corners and sans-serif font choices)
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: drb1200 on April 26, 2013, 09:50:33 AM
Can someone post the facebook link? I hardly ever use it and I can't find Rob on there.

I'm flattered that Redemption went ahead with a redesign

I have to ask, did they contact you about the redesign specifically?
Yeah, they did.

Also, you were the inspiration for my sleek design. What I was saying is that I'm flattered that Cactus noticed my redesign threads and went forward with their own.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: TimMierz on April 26, 2013, 09:54:18 AM
Can someone post the facebook link? I hardly ever use it and I can't find Rob on there.

Peter: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10201190502951027&set=o.21471064899&type=1&permPage=1
Son of God: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10201190497270885&set=o.21471064899&type=1&permPage=1
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on April 26, 2013, 10:10:36 AM
Can someone post the facebook link? I hardly ever use it and I can't find Rob on there.

I'm flattered that Redemption went ahead with a redesign

I have to ask, did they contact you about the redesign specifically?
Yeah, they did.

Also, you were the inspiration for my sleek design. What I was saying is that I'm flattered that Cactus noticed my redesign threads and went forward with their own.

Ah, I didn't know if they did it silently or not. That's pretty cool.

Regarding this design, I'm not sure how I feel about the rounded corners on the image / text boxes. On one hand the entire design has the same rounded shape throughout, but on the other hand it's not as "sharp" as the old design.

I'll wait till I see the rest of the cards in full size to really judge this design.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Red on April 26, 2013, 10:22:36 AM
Woah. Redesign. It was hinted at, but I expected it to just be a joke. But I saw that Rob posted these on his Facebook page, so this is legit.

My first instinct was that I dislike the new font choices, but I'll wait until I see larger images before I pass judgment. The special abilities definitely seem way easier to read, which is major. But if the ability text is as Arial as it seems... I might end up actually preferring the old design. (I feel bad being so negative, especially as the first post on the thread, but luckily most people care far less about typefaces than I do, so I doubt my opinion will carry much weight.)
Hopefully this are playtesting mockups which generally use different fonts than actual cards. if not then I won't be a happy camper either.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Arrthoa on April 26, 2013, 10:29:28 AM
I like the designs and the purple Peter, but I hope he has a more useful ability than what it shows here.

So this SoG would negate shut door's ability?
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Professoralstad on April 26, 2013, 10:33:30 AM
I like the designs and the purple Peter, but I hope he has a more useful ability than what it shows here.

So this SoG would negate shut door's ability?

Sorry to disappoint you, but what you see is what you get. Just remember that A) it's a starter deck card and B) since his name is Peter, he essentially also has the ability: "if The Garden Tomb is in play, ignore most evil characters..."

Yes, this SoG would negate Shut Door if it rescued it, but that doesn't really matter, since if Shut Door has always been able to be rescued by SoG.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Red on April 26, 2013, 10:44:56 AM
Peter is deceptively powerful. D1 on a TGT hero is borderline broken.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Warrior_Monk on April 26, 2013, 10:49:11 AM
Peter is deceptively powerful. D1 on a TGT hero is borderline broken.
Peter is deceptively powerful because he's a Purple TGT hero, like John. I think John is still better, but Peter gets 4DC too. Not broken IMO.

Hallelujah, we have a redesign. I've never been so excited for starters.

Finally, there was also the starter deck posted with Guardian of your Soul's picture on the front. Perhaps GoyS and FA reprints?
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: jbeers285 on April 26, 2013, 10:53:00 AM
I'm not disappointed in the least. Could the font be better sure, so you don't like the edges, who cares. It's much impoved from having abilities printed on images. I believe this is a huge step in the right direction. Lets be thankful for this step

You all need your negative nanny's to clean up after you

(Not malicious in intent, just trying to be a cup Half full guy)
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Chris on April 26, 2013, 11:17:22 AM
Not overly thrilled with the redesign (though Son of God is gorgeous), but the cards are clearer, and I mostly play on RTS anyway, so it won't be a huge deal.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Noah on April 26, 2013, 11:20:11 AM
I always thought it was odd having the art take up more then half of the card when that's probably the least useful part from a game play stand point. Oh well . . .
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: sepjazzwarrior on April 26, 2013, 12:05:12 PM
no return to territory after capture for peter? i liked that ability...
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Minion of Jesus on April 26, 2013, 12:11:55 PM
Makes me really want to see the rest of the new cards. I kinda like the redesign, but will withold judgement until the rest arrive.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Minion of Jesus on April 26, 2013, 12:17:02 PM
Actually, scratch that. The SoG is WAYYYYYY over powered. Now the souls that couldn't be rescued by a anything but a hero are pretty useless.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Red on April 26, 2013, 12:18:50 PM
Actually, scratch that. The SoG is WAYYYYYY over powered. Now the souls that couldn't be rescued by a anything but a hero are pretty useless.
Not at all.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Arrthoa on April 26, 2013, 12:28:49 PM
All I'm saying is that Disciples have enough speed and the only demon I have faced was winged lion in a Bab defense. I think he should have kept some of his original ability.

I am glad we finally have all good disciples in purple.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: jbeers285 on April 26, 2013, 12:31:12 PM
All I'm saying is that Disciples have enough speed and the only demon I have faced was winged lion in a Bab defense. I think he should have kept some of his original ability.

I am glad we finally have all good disciples in purple.

Do we know Andrew is purple now?
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Chris on April 26, 2013, 12:32:31 PM
All I'm saying is that Disciples have enough speed and the only demon I have faced was winged lion in a Bab defense. I think he should have kept some of his original ability.

I am glad we finally have all good disciples in purple.

Do we know Andrew is purple now?

He's definitely getting a purple reprint.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: jbeers285 on April 26, 2013, 12:34:43 PM
Is this known or is that an educated guess. I assume your right I'm just curious of you know this?
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Arrthoa on April 26, 2013, 12:36:21 PM
Why would they reprint Peter and not his brother who will most likely be a vanilla band to Peter. Just like James was to John in the previous starter deck.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Chris on April 26, 2013, 12:37:31 PM
Is this known or is that an educated guess. I assume your right I'm just curious of you know this?

I can say it with 100% certainty.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: jbeers285 on April 26, 2013, 12:39:35 PM
Awesome in that case are we going to see an enhancement specifically for Andrew/Peter like sons of thunder for James and John? That would be an interesting thing to add.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Drrek on April 26, 2013, 01:05:06 PM
I like the designs and the purple Peter, but I hope he has a more useful ability than what it shows here.

So this SoG would negate shut door's ability?

People use a Peter that is off-color and has an ability that really isn't useful at all now.  I think its fine for Peter to have a relatively weaker ability than other disciples (though its still pretty good, draw one on a TGT hero is nice).

Yes, SoG would negate shut door if you rescued it with it.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Alex_Olijar on April 26, 2013, 01:27:13 PM
Peter is deceptively powerful. D1 on a TGT hero is borderline broken.

Oh c'mon. Check yourself before you wreck yourself. There's way more broken cards to deal with than a D1 TGT hero.

Actually, scratch that. The SoG is WAYYYYYY over powered. Now the souls that couldn't be rescued by a anything but a hero are pretty useless.

Good. Now we don't have to see those cards in every deck. I'd kinda like to spread out soul choice again.

All I'm saying is that Disciples have enough speed and the only demon I have faced was winged lion in a Bab defense. I think he should have kept some of his original ability.

I am glad we finally have all good disciples in purple.

You need to play demons more than, they are super good.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Captain Kirk on April 26, 2013, 01:32:29 PM
I would also like to echo Alex's point that it would be nice to see more variety in soul spreads.

The last starters had a SA lost soul in each deck so maybe we can expect the same.

Kirk

Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Drrek on April 26, 2013, 01:48:04 PM
Actually, scratch that. The SoG is WAYYYYYY over powered. Now the souls that couldn't be rescued by a anything but a hero are pretty useless.

Good. Now we don't have to see those cards in every deck. I'd kinda like to spread out soul choice again.


You'll still see them in most decks.  I mean Female-only is kept in even though SoG can already rescue.  Don't forget NJ being unable to rescue a soul is still huge.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Alex_Olijar on April 26, 2013, 01:51:10 PM
Actually, scratch that. The SoG is WAYYYYYY over powered. Now the souls that couldn't be rescued by a anything but a hero are pretty useless.

Good. Now we don't have to see those cards in every deck. I'd kinda like to spread out soul choice again.


You'll still see them in most decks.  I mean Female-only is kept in even though SoG can already rescue.  Don't forget NJ being unable to rescue a soul is still huge.

The female soul is kept in because it basically forces an opponent using "The Deck" to SoG that soul, because it's not going to rescue the NT either. This allows you to have more freedom with your other souls (the Deck really can't afford to just haphazardly Son of God a CBP soul for example because then it could easily lock itself out by accident).

I think negating a soul and giving SoG access to NT and */4 is WAY more important than you think it is for the Deck that's currently considered the Best Deck in Format.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Arrthoa on April 26, 2013, 02:05:27 PM
@Alex: I have played multiple timewith demons and have never found them that useful. They seem to be like angels for evil characters, their only ment for suppport.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Minion of Jesus on April 26, 2013, 02:10:35 PM
Demons are my favorite defense.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Professoralstad on April 26, 2013, 02:12:58 PM
All I'm saying is that Disciples have enough speed and the only demon I have faced was winged lion in a Bab defense. I think he should have kept some of his original ability.

I am glad we finally have all good disciples in purple.

FWIW, his original ability (or some variation of it) would not be a good fit in these starters. The ability he does have will be VERY useful in the starters, and in T2 decks of the future (well, T1 too, but T2 moreso).

@Alex: I have played multiple timewith demons and have never found them that useful. They seem to be like angels for evil characters, their only ment for suppport.

I'm quite sure that will change.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: browarod on April 26, 2013, 02:48:23 PM
The ability he does have will be VERY useful in the starters,
I'm guessing you don't specifically mean the draw, which makes me VERY interested to see the demons in the deck. :P
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on April 26, 2013, 02:50:14 PM
The ability he does have will be VERY useful in the starters,
I'm guessing you don't specifically mean the draw, which makes me VERY interested to see the demons in the deck. :P

"For every time you draw 1 card (and only 1 card), you may discard 10 of your opponent's characters."
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Scoobug on April 26, 2013, 03:01:44 PM
So excited!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  ::)
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Gabe on April 26, 2013, 03:38:36 PM
The secret is out... I like the redesign a lot. The font would not be my first choice, but this is a huge improvement. Daniel and Lambo have been and continue to be a huge blessing to this community. Their fresh ideas and ways to inspire and challenge one another are a blessing to this game. Ultimately it was one of Daniels redesign ideas I took to Rob and pointed out some things I really liked about it. The main thing Rob took away was that it is time to get the special ability off the card art. That is a major step in the right direction. Thank you to both Daniel and Lambo. Your involvement in the community make this game better! :)

Let's also note that the redesign was one of the reasons that the set was delayed. We couldn't say that publicly before.

The Peter you see here represents Peter the fisherman from the Gospels. The Peter that was released from prison and was also a prophet comes later, in Acts. Some day if we get to release the early church set there will probably be a Peter with appropriate traits.

I guess it's probably obvious now why I said that there will be absolutely no problem telling the I deck cards from the FooF tin I cards. ::)
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on April 26, 2013, 03:44:43 PM
The secret is out... I like the redesign a lot. The font would not be my first choice, but this is a huge improvement. Daniel and Lambo have been and continue to be a huge blessing to this community. Their fresh ideas and ways to inspire and challenge one another are a blessing to this game. Ultimately it was one of Daniels redesign ideas I took to Rob and pointed out some things I really liked about it. The main thing Rob took away was that it is time to get the special ability off the card art. That is a major step in the right direction. Thank you to both Daniel and Lambo. Your involvement in the community make this game better! :)

Yeah, every time I made card images in the past, text over the image would be a constant issue, especially if you have a super high-contrast image.

Out of curiosity, who handled the graphics on the new cards?

*EDIT*

I guess it's probably obvious now why I said that there will be absolutely no problem telling the I deck cards from the FooF tin I cards. ::)

Joking aside, it would have been really easy anyway. FooF cards have the XP symbol next to the I http://redemption.wikia.com/wiki/Army_of_Simeonites_(FF) (http://redemption.wikia.com/wiki/Army_of_Simeonites_(FF))
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Professoralstad on April 26, 2013, 03:47:40 PM
FWIW, the redesign wasn't even publicly known to the playtesters. Gabe showed me a quick look at one of the cards at the T2 only, which is the only way I knew a redesign was in the works. I never realized how much I liked the special ability off of the card art until I saw SoG, and now I am excited to see how the rest of the cards look.

Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: TimMierz on April 26, 2013, 04:00:51 PM
Rob put up a higher-resolution picture up: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10201192580802972&set=o.21471064899&type=1

(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/379968_10201192580802972_2004033570_n.jpg)

The title font is fine, but way too much Arial for my tastes. Seems generic. The design itself is nice.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Minion of Jesus on April 26, 2013, 04:08:44 PM
Actually, scratch that. The SoG is WAYYYYYY over powered. Now the souls that couldn't be rescued by a anything but a hero are pretty useless.

Good. Now we don't have to see those cards in every deck. I'd kinda like to spread out soul choice again.


You'll still see them in most decks.  I mean Female-only is kept in even though SoG can already rescue.  Don't forget NJ being unable to rescue a soul is still huge.

The female soul is kept in because it basically forces an opponent using "The Deck" to SoG that soul, because it's not going to rescue the NT either. This allows you to have more freedom with your other souls (the Deck really can't afford to just haphazardly Son of God a CBP soul for example because then it could easily lock itself out by accident).

I think negating a soul and giving SoG access to NT and */4 is WAY more important than you think it is for the Deck that's currently considered the Best Deck in Format.

It used to be that you could simply stall an opponent because of this the unrescueability. Maybe this may be better, because it may force some better defense in decks. But still, I don't like it.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on April 26, 2013, 04:09:09 PM
My only nitpicks are the fonts and the rounded corners on the image box and text box.

I feel like the title could be larger, or the image box could extend up a bit. That typeface doesnt look like it has very large ascenders / descenders. I also quite liked Grail for the titles, but that one did have the descender issue.

I'm still torn on the rounded corners. There's nothing inherently wrong with them, I just preferred the look of the sharp corners.

From a technical standpoint though, everything looks great.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Minion of Jesus on April 26, 2013, 04:10:30 PM
My only nitpicks are the fonts and the rounded corners on the image box and text box.

I feel like the title could be larger, or the image box could extend up a bit. That typeface doesnt look like it has very large ascenders / descenders. I also quite liked Grail for the titles, but that one did have the descender issue.

I'm still torn on the rounded corners. There's nothing inherently wrong with them, I just preferred the look of the sharp corners.

From a technical standpoint though, everything looks great.

That's right. The card format is great. It's the ability's I have a disagreament with.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: drb1200 on April 26, 2013, 04:15:47 PM
(https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/575635_10201192598923425_1089601804_n.jpg)

For some reason, the redesign looks much better on this card.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on April 26, 2013, 04:17:32 PM
WOW.

Can you say Gifts of the Magi on steroids?

My only fear is that instead of punishing speed decks, it will just further encourage speed vs speed.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Jmbeers on April 26, 2013, 04:20:03 PM
1: most people got on here complaining about the last "new" set but it didn't break the game did it? Lets give the cards a chance before we start complaining about two reprints we knew were coming. I for one am exited about the Peter reprint, for a long time now I've been worried he'd be purple green. Overjoyed he's not.

2: We've been begging for a redesign and we got one! Lets be happy about that! Remember that it's one of the biggest steps this game has ever take towards modernizing. It's also a starter deck if down the road people talk about the font it's something that might be changed back. Rob and elders have obviously shown time and time again that they are listening to the players.

I couldn't be more satisfied with the look of these new cards and am ready to get my hands on them.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: drb1200 on April 26, 2013, 04:23:36 PM
First post updated with high-res versions of all 3 cards.

Also curious why there is no cross icon on the ROA3 card?
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Jmbeers on April 26, 2013, 04:26:45 PM
Anyone notice the identifiers are centered now?
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Gabe on April 26, 2013, 04:29:23 PM
Also curious why there is no cross icon on the ROA3 card?

Are you just assuming it's ROA3 or did Rob say that wherever you found the leaked image? I'm asking because I honestly don't know his plan for distributing the tin.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: TimMierz on April 26, 2013, 04:33:10 PM

Are you just assuming it's ROA3 or did Rob say that wherever you found the leaked image? I'm asking because I honestly don't know his plan for distributing the tin.

Rob said:
"Here is a 3rd preview card. This one is for Rock of Ages tin # 26 that will release at the same time at the 4th Edition Starter Decks."
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: TimMierz on April 26, 2013, 04:37:51 PM
More previews:

(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/575496_10151471189264900_1515160357_n.jpg)

(https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/936770_10151471188239900_1519767994_n.jpg)

Is Twice Afflicted the first Angel Wars card to be reprinted?
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Jmbeers on April 26, 2013, 04:40:36 PM
Now there is a true defense bonus, unfortunately everyone will play it but hey, it's fine with me, I like defense  ::)

And as a Babs player Neb to scattered will be incredibly effective.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Arrthoa on April 26, 2013, 04:41:05 PM
I think we will be seeing Scattered in almost every defense now. I guess this is the middle between Dual Brigade and Multi Brigade
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on April 26, 2013, 04:41:37 PM
WOAH.

That brigade box on scattered threw me for a loop. LOL!
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Red on April 26, 2013, 04:43:27 PM
Scattered is amazing. Golden Cheribuim is also baller.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Jmbeers on April 26, 2013, 04:48:05 PM
Scattered represents the Nations that captured Israelites.
Brown = Persia
Grey = Syria   
Green = Assyria
Crimson = Babylon

Orange are demons so no conquering there, and Egypt never conquered Israel (the slavery was before they were a nation). 
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Drrek on April 26, 2013, 04:54:03 PM
Don't like Golden Cherubim, seems too powerful to me, and basically becomes a staple in all decks.  I like Scattered, but am worried the 4-colors makes it too splashable.  Twice afflicted is ok.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Arrthoa on April 26, 2013, 04:54:15 PM
My guess is gray will pop up either in the Tin or Starter. They already gave us more for Brown, Crimson, and Pale Green, so Gray has to be what we get.

What be know so far

Deck 1: Purple & Silver
            Two Evil Brigades
Deck 2: White & Another Brigade
             Orange and Another Evil Brigade

Tin 26: Teal (Based of Artifact) & Syrians or Persians(Based off Scattered)
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Drrek on April 26, 2013, 04:56:48 PM
My guess is gray will pop up either in the Tin or Starter. They already gave us more for Brown, Crimson, and Pale Green, so Gray has to be what we get.

What be know so far

Deck 1: Purple & Another Good Brigade (My guess is Silver)
            Two Evil Brigades
Deck 2: Two Good Brigades
             Orange and Another Evil Brigade

Tin 26: Teal (Based of Artifact) & Syrians (Based off Scattered)

If I remember correctly we already got a hint a while ago that one deck would have some extremely recognizable names in it, and those would be the only humans on the offense, so I think its Purple/Silver.

We know we are getting White as one of the colors.  I'm think Gray was hinted to as well.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Arrthoa on April 26, 2013, 05:16:16 PM
I believe Gabe mentioned in one of the Threads that there would be an O.T. Offense/ N.T. Defense in one Deck and N.T/ O.T. in the other Deck.

Going off that, The white would be either Daniel or Musicians (Since those are the only existing O.T. White themes, and I know there is Ruth but it would require too many cards). If there is Gray It would Be Romans/Pharisees if with Orange or Syrians if in the Disciple and Angel Offense deck.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Minion of Jesus on April 26, 2013, 05:54:28 PM
I would love to see more romans and musicians. I would really like to see another David reprint, this time a white musician.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Scoobug on April 26, 2013, 06:06:14 PM
Gangsta: This set is legit, homey!

Gentleman: Such an exquisite set you have released, the redesign is simply dashing!
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Mageduckey on April 26, 2013, 06:13:39 PM
I'd just like to point out to people complaining about SoG negating an LS that this is based on the Bible, in which we are told that the Son of God can save anyone, any "lost soul".  Only makes sense we have a card that properly reflects Jesus' true power.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Minister Polarius on April 26, 2013, 06:21:54 PM
New SoG looks awesome, Twice Afflicted looks eh, and the rest look pretty bad. I'm glad that there was a redesign, but these look extremely plain and I loathe the font. The minuscule icons look goofy, too.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Gabe on April 26, 2013, 06:22:25 PM
Wow, Rob spoiled Scattered? That's awesome! The defense in that tin is going to be a theme that's quite foreign to most of you.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Jmbeers on April 26, 2013, 06:24:11 PM
Wow, Rob spoiled Scattered? That's awesome! The defense in that tin is going to be a theme that's quite foreign to most of you.

Bu-dum.. Tshhhh
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: browarod on April 26, 2013, 06:29:19 PM
Only makes sense we have a card that properly reflects Jesus' true power.
Except he still can't rescue your own Souls. ::)

Wow, Rob spoiled Scattered? That's awesome! The defense in that tin is going to be a theme that's quite foreign to most of you.
This intrigues me.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: jbeers285 on April 26, 2013, 06:48:36 PM
What happens if my opponent has golden cherubim up and I play reach do they get to search before I play a card or after I draw and play can I at don before they search after I play the enhancement?
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: browarod on April 26, 2013, 06:51:37 PM
What happens if my opponent has golden cherubim up and I play reach do they get to search before I play a card or after I draw and play can I at don before they search after I play the enhancement?
Triggers always have to wait til all abilities complete, so if you play Reach and then another enhancement they couldn't search with Cherubim until after the second enhancement (and any subsequent interrupts/negates/etc.).
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Jmbeers on April 26, 2013, 06:56:34 PM
Except GC is CBN so once the trigger hits the search will happen, no if and or buts, except restricts.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Mageduckey on April 26, 2013, 07:02:37 PM
The ability still has to finish, though.  So if you have an "Interrupt, draw, play next" ability, you would get to play off your play next before they could search.  But you can't negate it, so if you go into battle without killing it they will get to search off your interrupt/draw/play enhancement.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: browarod on April 26, 2013, 07:07:42 PM
The OCD side of me is perturbed by the fact that there's more background on the right side of the image and ability/verse box than on the left side, but the creative side in me wants to love the redesign.

*inner civil war begins*
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on April 26, 2013, 07:18:15 PM
the fact that there's more background on the right side of the image and ability/verse box than on the left side

Wow, I didn't even notice that. Before. Now it's gonna bug me too. Thanks bro.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: drb1200 on April 26, 2013, 07:20:40 PM
The OCD side of me is perturbed by the fact that there's more background on the right side of the image and ability/verse box than on the left side, but the creative side in me wants to love the redesign.

*inner civil war begins*
If you notice, a lot of cards have been printed like that  :-X bugging Daniel since '05.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: browarod on April 26, 2013, 07:21:45 PM
the fact that there's more background on the right side of the image and ability/verse box than on the left side

Wow, I didn't even notice that. Before. Now it's gonna bug me too. Thanks bro.
Peter and Son of God on the first page look alright, so I'm sating my OCD side by only looking at them....... >_>
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Ironica on April 26, 2013, 07:50:17 PM
Please refresh my memroy on this if I have it wrong.

Wouldn't Nazareth basically stop Golden Cherubim?  So that would mean a site that stays out always stops this artifact.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Arrthoa on April 26, 2013, 08:00:59 PM
Please refresh my memroy on this if I have it wrong.

Wouldn't Nazareth basically stop Golden Cherubim?  So that would mean a site that stays out always stops this artifact.

Yes, it would. But if you use a heavy search deck, you wouldn't want to have Naz in your deck.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Redoubter on April 26, 2013, 09:02:59 PM
My guess is gray will pop up either in the Tin or Starter. They already gave us more for Brown, Crimson, and Pale Green, so Gray has to be what we get.

What be know so far

Deck 1: Purple & Silver
            Two Evil Brigades
Deck 2: White & Another Brigade
             Orange and Another Evil Brigade

Bold is why I am very concerned about the new Peter.  If this assumption is correct, then he negates half of the opposing defense, and negating EC pre-block was a major problem that led to part of the imbalance between the last starters.  His D1 isn't as bad as some think, though that does make Disciples' drawing even more rampant.

Please refresh my memroy on this if I have it wrong.

Wouldn't Nazareth basically stop Golden Cherubim?  So that would mean a site that stays out always stops this artifact.

Yes, it would. But if you use a heavy search deck, you wouldn't want to have Naz in your deck.

So, I hated Golden Cherubim when I looked at it at first, but as I read the thread, I had these same sudden realizations.  It at least has a hard counter in Nazareth.  I do still have a problem with the fact that almost every competitive deck will have to have either Golden Cherubim or Nazareth in it (rarely both), however.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Arrthoa on April 26, 2013, 09:08:29 PM
I'm basing those assumptions off of how the last starters were constructed ex. Exodus and Leviticus Heroes against Egyptians and Rebellious Israelites. 

You would still have DoN to use. You would have to do it before sending in your Hero though. If I recall, the CBN on Arts/Cov/Curses only apply during the battle.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Redoubter on April 26, 2013, 09:22:45 PM
If I recall, the CBN on Arts/Cov/Curses only apply during the battle.

No, just many specify that they are CBN in the Battle Phase, meaning they are not CBN outside of battle.  This card, however, would make it so that you could not DoN when your heroes are returning from Set-Aside with something like Pentecost to stop the search.  Since it happens in the same phase, the search would still happen in that case.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Arrthoa on April 26, 2013, 09:36:09 PM
You have Desecrate the Temple, King Jehoash, and Breaking Jerusalem's Wall that can either discard it or take it. There are propabley others, but those were the only I could think of right now.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: browarod on April 26, 2013, 10:10:20 PM
This card, however, would make it so that you could not DoN when your heroes are returning from Set-Aside with something like Pentecost to stop the search.  Since it happens in the same phase, the search would still happen in that case.
This is not correct. The special ability is a triggered effect, not an ongoing ability, so if the Artifact is not present it can't trigger. You could play DoN and then bring your Heroes with Pentecost back and the opponent would not be able to search.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Redoubter on April 26, 2013, 10:32:59 PM
This card, however, would make it so that you could not DoN when your heroes are returning from Set-Aside with something like Pentecost to stop the search.  Since it happens in the same phase, the search would still happen in that case.
This is not correct. The special ability is a triggered effect, not an ongoing ability, so if the Artifact is not present it can't trigger. You could play DoN and then bring your Heroes with Pentecost back and the opponent would not be able to search.

I see your point on that, and change my position.  I had been working with the card as ongoing, when it is not explicitly so.  However, I am a bit concerned about how this would be ruled, and would like to hear the Elders weigh in on that just to be on the safe side.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Arrthoa on April 26, 2013, 10:58:03 PM
Here is what the REG defines Triggered as:
Some ongoing special abilities are delayed until a specified game action takes place. These special abilities are then activated or ‘triggered’. Triggered special abilities are ongoing abilities of the form ‘if X happens then Y’.

So it is ongoing in a way, but is not always active until X happens
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Drrek on April 26, 2013, 11:05:40 PM
My guess is gray will pop up either in the Tin or Starter. They already gave us more for Brown, Crimson, and Pale Green, so Gray has to be what we get.

What be know so far

Deck 1: Purple & Silver
            Two Evil Brigades
Deck 2: White & Another Brigade
             Orange and Another Evil Brigade

Bold is why I am very concerned about the new Peter.  If this assumption is correct, then he negates half of the opposing defense, and negating EC pre-block was a major problem that led to part of the imbalance between the last starters.  His D1 isn't as bad as some think, though that does make Disciples' drawing even more rampant.



Eh, I don't think Peter's that bad there.  I am by no means saying Moses was balanced in the last starters, but with Peter, he's just negating the characters (unless there's a card like madness in the new starter), so so I don't think its that bad.  I mean John (while very powerful) wasn't too bad in the last starters.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: KingLeo on April 26, 2013, 11:16:50 PM
Who made the scattered Defense card I HAVE TO KNOW!!! THAT MAN SHOULD BE GIVEN MANY BLESSINGS and if he shows himself i might just give him a free foriegn sword!!!!!

KingLeo 8)
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Drrek on April 26, 2013, 11:25:52 PM

Please refresh my memroy on this if I have it wrong.

Wouldn't Nazareth basically stop Golden Cherubim?  So that would mean a site that stays out always stops this artifact.

Yes, it would. But if you use a heavy search deck, you wouldn't want to have Naz in your deck.

So, I hated Golden Cherubim when I looked at it at first, but as I read the thread, I had these same sudden realizations.  It at least has a hard counter in Nazareth.  I do still have a problem with the fact that almost every competitive deck will have to have either Golden Cherubim or Nazareth in it (rarely both), however.

Missed this the first time responding to this post, and I'd like to say drawing has hard counters with Rain Becomes Dust, searching has a hard counter with Nazareth, yet people still play search and draw all the time in this meta.  The hard counters didn't stop the wheel within a wheel, AuTO or Sam abuse in the past set, so I don't think we can rely on them to stop this here.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Gabe on April 26, 2013, 11:32:52 PM
Peter is nice but he's not really OP. Overall the two decks were found to be pretty balanced in my testing. If anything I would be concerned about half of the offense in the J deck.

Who made the scattered Defense card I HAVE TO KNOW!!! THAT MAN SHOULD BE GIVEN MANY BLESSINGS and if he shows himself i might just give him a free foriegn sword!!!!!

Scattered was truly a team effort. After Nationals we discussed ways to thwart CBN banding on offense. Scattered was one of the cards we created. I can think of at least 5-6 of the elders that gave input that helped shape that card. It's one of my favorites in the new stuff. If you like Scattered you might also like the "fool" Lost Soul.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Minister Polarius on April 26, 2013, 11:37:33 PM
I'm also a bit bothered by the fact that the most famous apostle is one of the weakest disciples.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Drrek on April 26, 2013, 11:50:09 PM

Who made the scattered Defense card I HAVE TO KNOW!!! THAT MAN SHOULD BE GIVEN MANY BLESSINGS and if he shows himself i might just give him a free foriegn sword!!!!!

Scattered was truly a team effort. After Nationals we discussed ways to thwart CBN banding on offense. Scattered was one of the cards we created. I can think of at least 5-6 of the elders that gave input that helped shape that card. It's one of my favorites in the new stuff. If you like Scattered you might also like the "fool" Lost Soul.

I really do like scattered, I think its a fantastic idea for a card, I'm just worried that with the 4 colors it will be splashed into just about every deck and every "meta defense."

I am interested in this new lost soul.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Jmbeers on April 26, 2013, 11:55:40 PM
Ooooo already named it :)

Good name too
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Alex_Olijar on April 27, 2013, 01:08:53 AM
I said my thoughts in a concise 31 minute video:

New Set Spoiler Discussion (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cc2V2NF1kuc#ws)


Card Opinions are between minute 3-25 or so I think.


But basically,

Peter is ok.
Twice Afflicted is ok.
Son of God is neat.
Scattered is hard counter to every offense that's any good and it's playable in meta defense.
Golden Cherubim is BROKEN BROKEN BROKEN.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: jbeers285 on April 27, 2013, 01:26:48 AM
We should ban the use of the word broken until someone can prove that a card is broken and since none of the new cards are in your decks you can't use one the new card to break the game. Lets see how things play out in different decks before we announce things as broken.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Warrior_Monk on April 27, 2013, 01:37:55 AM
As I said in the video, I would never call a reactionary card broken. That said, Golden Cherubim is really really really good.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Drrek on April 27, 2013, 01:52:31 AM
As I said in the video, I would never call a reactionary card broken. That said, Golden Cherubim is really really really good.

I'll reserve total judgement on it until the cards are all released and played with, but if I've ever seen a new card that I'd wager would turn out to be broken, it'd be Golden Cherubim.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Minister Polarius on April 27, 2013, 02:02:52 AM
Cards that depend on your opponent's plays to do anything cannot ever be broken (unless they respond to actual game actions like "making a rescue attempt" or "reducing hand to eight at end of turn"), therefore Cherubim cannot be broken.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Gabe on April 27, 2013, 02:14:38 AM
Unless you could find a way to force the opponent to trigger it.  ::)
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: ChristianSoldier on April 27, 2013, 02:57:07 AM
Am I right that if Rain Becomes Dust and Golden Cherubim are both active the Rain Becomes Dust insteads the draw and Golden Cherubim doesn't trigger?

However this would be awesome if you had Golden Cherubim and Gifts of the Magi up (and your opponent drew cards from an ability).
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Minion of Jesus on April 27, 2013, 08:19:25 AM
I'm also a bit bothered by the fact that the most famous apostle is one of the weakest disciples.

That was one of my thoughts too.

I wonder what the fool soul will do... "Cannot be rescued by a dumb hero/person."
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on April 27, 2013, 09:23:50 AM
Unless you could find a way to force the opponent to trigger it.  ::)

I can think of some ways already.  ;)
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Arrthoa on April 27, 2013, 09:27:41 AM
Has anybody thought of an answer to Gabe hint about the tin: How the evil defense will be Foreign to most of us.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on April 27, 2013, 09:43:39 AM
Has anybody thought of an answer to Gabe hint about the tin: How the evil defense will be Foreign to most of us.

I guess we can confirm Americans are not in this set.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: jbeers285 on April 27, 2013, 09:49:07 AM
Has anybody thought of an answer to Gabe hint about the tin: How the evil defense will be Foreign to most of us.

Well I have heard the term paralysis or paralyze get thrown around and that is a foreign concept to us in redemption.

It could be a card that operates outside of the Rock Paper Scissors of redemption.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Minister Polarius on April 27, 2013, 10:56:26 AM
The only cards I can think of dealing with "foreign" right now, along with scriptural conventions, would suggest Syrians or Canaanites.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Gabe on April 27, 2013, 11:03:59 AM
You guys will have to think outside the box a little to guess this one. ;)
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Sadness on April 27, 2013, 11:19:56 AM
Hittites,Amalekites-these are two possible enemies I can think of. What do you think?
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Professoralstad on April 27, 2013, 11:22:57 AM
To those of you who are worried about Golden Cherubim, in testing, it did precisely what it was meant to do: slow down drawing. It was designed to slow down decks like The Deck, which rely on both draws and searches (and thus don't typically have Nazareth). It also takes up an Artifact slot, and it isn't a Herods temple art, so it probably won't be a staple for every deck.

As for the cards in general, I didn't see anyone reference the other difference between these cards and older cards, aside from the redesign.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Arrthoa on April 27, 2013, 11:26:22 AM
My guess is Syrians due to Scattered have gray on it and being in the tin. Not many use Syrians for defense so it could be considered "foreign" to most of us.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: drb1200 on April 27, 2013, 11:31:46 AM
This is probably off-topic, but Peter's leg looks totally weird.

(https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/537792_10201192586723120_1752565642_n.jpg)
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: drb1200 on April 27, 2013, 11:38:19 AM
It bothers me that the translation isn't KJV.
I didn't notice that. Very nice, especially for young players.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Warrior_Monk on April 27, 2013, 11:57:50 AM
It's not about difficulty to read, but it's weird to read. You have to think about it. I think new players might be a bit put off that we were using an older translation instead of something more modern. Step in the right direction, though I personally enjoyed KJV.

Also, new soul, new dominant:
(https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/376991_10151472313859900_849471013_n.jpg)
(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/562412_10151472312264900_1913611862_n.jpg)
(https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/39274_10151423736259900_1228330812_n.jpg)
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: TheMarti on April 27, 2013, 12:14:17 PM
Some opinions from the old retiree:

GC isn't totally broken, but ouch - think it could have used some more playtesting, maybe from some more eyes. I dunno.

The new design is much needed and very, very nice. Save the font... at least it's not Comic Sans, but Arial makes it look a bit amateur. Granted, it may not look so bad on paper - my eyes are for web design, and I'd rarely, if ever, use Arial in any sort of online art or in a Power Point.

The change in Scripture translation? 100% needed. I liked the KJV, but I think it would have taken away from the card redesign to continue to use it. The NASB (which is what I think it is?) is another very good translation, and I think it's a proper, appropriate update.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Arrthoa on April 27, 2013, 12:19:30 PM
I'll be using that Lost Soul in all my decks. Vain Philosophy is good, but now that good to claim one of my 8 Dom slots.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Red on April 27, 2013, 12:24:23 PM
I'll be playing vain in nearly 100% of my decks. I personally think it's rediculous.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Arrthoa on April 27, 2013, 12:31:11 PM
The only card I see worth taking out for it is Grapes. Mayhem is already out of my deck.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Jmbeers on April 27, 2013, 12:31:52 PM
Soul is nice but will be a very popular Sog/NJ hit.

Still I think it's a great add for defensive players.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: drb1200 on April 27, 2013, 12:48:57 PM
First post updated.

LOVE Vain Philosophy.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Captain Kirk on April 27, 2013, 12:56:59 PM
It bothers me that the translation isn't KJV.
I didn't notice that. Very nice, especially for young players.
The KJV isn't hard to read. That's quite a fallacy. I just browsed Bible Gateway and over half of the newer translations are either the equvilent of dumbed down bible, just completely lose the meaning of the verse, or are harder to read. Not a fan of this decision Cactus.

The translation on the cards (NASB) is more literal and more in line with the original meaning than KJV. ESV is also that way. The wording sometimes makes it more difficult to read than the NIV or KJV but it is good to have a more thorough look at the text, IMO. I also like the HCSB - I like the way it reads and I don't feel that is loses anything. I also grew up memorizing verses in NIV so I work off three translations mainly: HCSB for most of devotions and sometimes ESV as I have study Bibles in both, my church uses ESV, and I memorize in NIV mainly.

Kirk

Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Arrthoa on April 27, 2013, 01:10:31 PM
If the reference on the GC has anything to do with the teal cards in the tin, they will most likely be Solomon's Temple cards. Maybe we are getting a more useful S-Temple?
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: jbeers285 on April 27, 2013, 01:12:47 PM
The soul is better in T1 for sure. Vain philosophy is interesting. I can see defense is getting a legitimized boost in these cards which I absolutely love.

Now the question is in T2 are people gonna start play 10-12 dom's?
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: CactusRob on April 27, 2013, 01:52:55 PM
If the reference on the GC has anything to do with the teal cards in the tin, they will most likely be Solomon's Temple cards. Maybe we are getting a more useful S-Temple?

The knowledge that you the fans demonstrate about the game is nothing short of amazing to me.... and it makes me want to go watch Galaxy Quest for some reason. 

Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: lp670sv on April 27, 2013, 01:53:50 PM
Has anybody thought of an answer to Gabe hint about the tin: How the evil defense will be Foreign to most of us.

I guess we can confirm Americans are not in this set.

And here I was hoping for the Book of Mormon expansion :/
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Arrthoa on April 27, 2013, 02:06:32 PM
If the reference on the GC has anything to do with the teal cards in the tin, they will most likely be Solomon's Temple cards. Maybe we are getting a more useful S-Temple?

The knowledge that you the fans demonstrate about the game is nothing short of amazing to me.... and it makes me want to go watch Galaxy Quest for some reason. 
Well, playing this game has helped me learn my biblical stuff. You can ask any one close to me and they'll said I'm a lazy brain.

Back on topic, I wonder if it'll be similar to how Z-Temple is or different.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Ironica on April 27, 2013, 02:12:58 PM
I see a combo for my nuke deck :D

Having the new lost soul out and scattered in your hand, play siege.  If you survive all the special abilities and can play, you play scattered.  If you don't, give them the new lost soul



BOOM!!!
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Redoubter on April 27, 2013, 02:29:44 PM
First, I love the new translation.  I think it has been needed for a long time, especially for newer players.  Young kids just don't understand KJV in my experience, and many (archetype of those I encounter, not stereotype of all, mind you ;)) non-Christians think the KJV is ridiculous and use the older language to make fun of Christianity on the whole as an "old and outdated" religion.  Having a newer translation can only be good for the game, in my opinion.

Second, I really like Vain Philosophy.  It is very powerful, powerful enough to put it in line with other dominants in some peoples' eyes, and having different dominants in every deck is a good thing.  It is not too powerful, such that everyone will use it and abuse it.  My only concern is the power it has added to cards like U+T.  At least most other look-at-hand abilities have a cost (like choosing who you will rescue with for spying heroes), but U+T doesn't have any cost if you have a priest it can use out.  It is also nearly impossible to kill at this point.  So it bothers me a little that this increases the power of such a powerful card, but overall and with everything considered, I like it a lot.

The Fool LS is...interesting.  It adds to strategy, which I like, and the combos that would discard whole offenses are minimal...I'd like to play with it awhile to get more of an idea about how it affects the game (if it does at all).  Likely going to be a T1-only LS, because Rescuer's Choice removes a lot of the defensive strategy there.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Crashfach2002 on April 27, 2013, 03:24:01 PM
The soul is better in T1 for sure. Vain philosophy is interesting. I can see defense is getting a legitimized boost in these cards which I absolutely love.

Now the question is in T2 are people gonna start play 10-12 dom's?

While I agree on the 1st point that it is better in T1, it is still awesome for T2.  From my experience most T2 players are not going to carry more than 2 unique characters due to the potential clog in your hand, so being able to have 2 of that lost soul basically kills Samuel, Isaiah, Red Banding offenses in just two turns.  I love the defense seen so far, my decks might become more of a trick (for lack of better term) defense but will be super strong!

On the 2nd point, is there a problem with finally having close to the max of dominants in T2?   ;D  ;)
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Redoubter on April 27, 2013, 04:18:23 PM
While I agree on the 1st point that it is better in T1, it is still awesome for T2.  From my experience most T2 players are not going to carry more than 2 unique characters due to the potential clog in your hand, so being able to have 2 of that lost soul basically kills Samuel, Isaiah, Red Banding offenses in just two turns.

The problem is that you will almost never have only those LS out, and whenever you have other options, they will have choices.  Combine this with the restricted-rescue souls, and you might force the rescue every now and then, but you also need to remember that they can choose who they rescue with based on going after that soul.  Most T2 have their 'stars', but have very capable back-up heroes.  To rescue a soul, these back-ups can be thrown into discard without a problem.  Also, you lose the ability to stop banding in T2, because they choose to go for this soul before rescuing, meaning that they can go after a different soul and band, or go after this soul and not band for that rescue.

Next, remember that you still have to play an EE...many small characters (Benjamin/Joe/etc.) will just win the battle before you have the chance to play.  Now they live.

Finally, the soul is not CBN.  I can negate it in many of the high-powered T2 decks and not worry about it at all.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Alex_Olijar on April 27, 2013, 04:39:06 PM
Soul might be better in t2 because of more weapon play
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Redoubter on April 27, 2013, 04:42:14 PM
Soul might be better in t2 because of more weapon play

I can see that point as a counter to not being able to play anything before the offense wins, but in T2, that still doesn't overcome the enormous impact of Rescuer's Choice on being able to choose when you will trigger this soul and who will be discarded, or just avoiding it completely by going after other souls, nor does it counter the fact that most high-powered T2 offenses have negation of LS built in.  For example, Isaiah was mentioned earlier...he negates LS with his call, which he'd better have on him in T2.

I really don't see this soul as having any real impact on T2, for those reasons.  Included?  Possibly.  But it won't change the game with any real impact.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Captain Kirk on April 27, 2013, 05:02:01 PM
It bothers me that the translation isn't KJV.
I didn't notice that. Very nice, especially for young players.
The KJV isn't hard to read. That's quite a fallacy. I just browsed Bible Gateway and over half of the newer translations are either the equvilent of dumbed down bible, just completely lose the meaning of the verse, or are harder to read. Not a fan of this decision Cactus.

The translation on the cards (NASB) is more literal and more in line with the original meaning than KJV. ESV is also that way. The wording sometimes makes it more difficult to read than the NIV or KJV but it is good to have a more thorough look at the text, IMO. I also like the HCSB - I like the way it reads and I don't feel that is loses anything. I also grew up memorizing verses in NIV so I work off three translations mainly: HCSB for most of devotions and sometimes ESV as I have study Bibles in both, my church uses ESV, and I memorize in NIV mainly.

Kirk
I don't agree.

I think you should research and read more of the Bible in multiple translations before putting down most every non-KJV translation in one fell swoop. There is no "perfect" English translation because the Bible was written in other languages. I have found incredible benefit from reading the Bible in many translations and also looking to the original languages for an even closer look.

Maybe if read significant portions of the Bible in multiple translations, such as all the Gospels in multiple translations, then you will see the value that God has shown me.

Kirk
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Crashfach2002 on April 27, 2013, 05:02:34 PM
I did forget about the opponent choosing the Lost Soul in T2, but still with the exception of the character that negate Lost Souls, you have N.T. only, Female Only, and now this one, and possibly Anti-Burial which they can not or will not try to go after first.  So I think it will make people more mindful of what Lost Souls they have to go after and when.  I'm not saying it will be a significant game changer, but I think that if you really aren't a true T2 player, and think several turns ahead, this Lost Soul will haunt you.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Gabe on April 27, 2013, 05:05:25 PM
While the "Fool" Lost Soul might fit well into some T2 decks, it's more designed for T1. It worked really for me in testing when I was able to trigger it. You better believe that your opponent will do anything they can (negate, exchange or SoG/NJ) to avoid letting this work. My favorite deck I used it in slightly defense heavy.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Mageduckey on April 27, 2013, 05:22:44 PM
Will we see CoF more frequently to mitigate the threat of Fool+Thorns and no SoG/NJ in hand?
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: christiangamer25 on April 27, 2013, 05:28:55 PM
ok im sorry but im missing something here wheres the connection between fools and thorns ls
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: RTSmaniac on April 27, 2013, 06:02:43 PM
Please refresh my memroy on this if I have it wrong.

Wouldn't Nazareth basically stop Golden Cherubim?  So that would mean a site that stays out always stops this artifact.

Yes, it would. But if you use a heavy search deck, you wouldn't want to have Naz in your deck.

Your not using a heavy search deck, your drawing. Nazzy is a top card. The question is "Are you going to play "The Deck" or Nazzy. Seems like Golden Cheribum deserves a spot in The Deck.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Bobbert on April 27, 2013, 06:04:12 PM
ok im sorry but im missing something here wheres the connection between fools and thorns ls

When thorns is out, you can't shuffle our underdeck the fool. Since pretty much the only other way to get rid of it is SoG/NJ or Burial, that could be pretty strong.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Mageduckey on April 27, 2013, 06:36:06 PM
ok im sorry but im missing something here wheres the connection between fools and thorns ls

When thorns is out, you can't shuffle our underdeck the fool. Since pretty much the only other way to get rid of it is SoG/NJ or Burial, that could be pretty strong.

I was more focusing on exchanging, since that's the only consistently safe way to prevent your opponent from giving you the LS (can't let you rescue it if he never has it on his turn).  Thorns stops that, so the defender will have the choice to use Fool unless SoG/NJ are thrown.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Alex_Olijar on April 27, 2013, 06:38:16 PM
Cool, now we are wasting the only reliable two liner counter on this soul; maybe I will play it after all.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Mageduckey on April 27, 2013, 07:08:14 PM
Cool, now we are wasting the only reliable two liner counter on this soul; maybe I will play it after all.

I was about to say that there were other options for exchanging LS, but as of now Nebushasban and Prisoner Transfer are the only two  :-\
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: KingLeo on April 28, 2013, 12:33:09 AM
Syrians would really work well with these particular defensive evil doms, EE's and lost souls!

KingLeo 8)
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Sadness on April 28, 2013, 05:43:57 AM
Whereas I'm not happy on the Scripture version change,it can be seen as a challenge to younger players to compare the two Scripture versions and note the differences. Even though I'm KJV only,I'm confident the Spirit will help the younger generation gain as great a understanding of our Saviour using the other versions.  Besides you can always sit down with them and point out the differences in Scripture.
On the new set I like what I've seen so far. It seems the starter decks will be a big hit. I'm curious as to what the promos might be as well.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Arrthoa on April 28, 2013, 07:39:40 AM
Maybe one promo will be a NJ reprint that allows you to rescue one of your lost souls ;D
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Minion of Jesus on April 28, 2013, 08:07:12 AM
Loving the new stuff. But now I doubt we'll get a falling away..  Oh well. I'd rather get a new evil dom.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: RTSmaniac on April 28, 2013, 10:42:43 AM
Whats up with Peters leg?
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Sadness on April 28, 2013, 11:39:53 AM
Early case of gout :)
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Minion of Jesus on April 29, 2013, 07:54:06 AM
Not liking the scripture, though. It's like drinking diet cola instead of regular.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Captain Kirk on April 29, 2013, 08:32:40 AM
Why is Golden Cherubim not labeled as a Tabernacle artifact? They were originally placed in The Tabernacle long before Solomon's Temple was created.

Kirk
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Gabe on April 29, 2013, 08:47:41 AM
It's been added to the list of Tabernacle Artifacts for the next REG update. But now that you mention it I see that most have both identifiers on them.

EDIT: My bad, see post #154 below. I guess I better remove GC from the Tabernacle Artifact list before we release the next REG update.  ;)
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Captain Kirk on April 29, 2013, 09:12:07 AM
Okay thanks Gabe. :)

Kirk
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Arrthoa on April 29, 2013, 09:36:37 AM
Is GC, in a way, a reprint of the Ark of the Covenant? Because in the picture it depicts the Ark. I'm just curious about this.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Gabe on April 29, 2013, 10:07:13 AM
No, it's not supposed to represent the Ark. In the verse on the card and surrounding verses in the Bible it talks about golden cherubim designed for Solomon's Temple. They resided in the inner sanctuary where the Ark was also kept. They were different than the cherubs on the Ark of the Covenant. Good luck finding a picture for them though. I guess that's why Rob chose the picture he did.

Quote from: 1 Kings 6:23-28
23 Also in the inner sanctuary he made two cherubim of olive wood, each ten cubits high. 24 Five cubits was the one wing of the cherub and five cubits the other wing of the cherub; from the end of one wing to the end of the other wing were ten cubits. 25 The other cherub was ten cubits; both the cherubim were of the same measure and the same form. 26 The height of the one cherub was ten cubits, and so was the other cherub. 27 He placed the cherubim in the midst of the inner house, and the wings of the cherubim were spread out, so that the wing of the one was touching the one wall, and the wing of the other cherub was touching the other wall. So their wings were touching each other in the center of the house. 28 He also overlaid the cherubim with gold.

So in answer to Kirks question earlier, I was wrong, this will not go in the Tabernacle which is why that identifier was omitted. This is strictly a Temple Artifact. I assume it will be for all Temples since there's no evidence that I know which indicates these were not present in Z's and Herod's Temples.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Arrthoa on April 29, 2013, 10:12:39 AM
Okay thanks
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Bryon on April 29, 2013, 10:23:20 AM
Are the Golden Cherubim depicted in the art Doug drew for Holy of Holies?
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on April 29, 2013, 10:45:33 AM
Are the Golden Cherubim depicted in the art Doug drew for Holy of Holies?

(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.wikia.com%2Fredemption%2Fimages%2F4%2F44%2FHoly_of_Holies_-_D_Deck_%2528UL%2529.jpg&hash=31489d168821db20049894b6376035b6e8c31c4e)
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Captain Kirk on April 29, 2013, 11:27:36 AM
That makes sense. Thanks for setting the record straight.

Kirk
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Locutus on April 29, 2013, 11:34:36 AM
The soul is better in T1 for sure. Vain philosophy is interesting. I can see defense is getting a legitimized boost in these cards which I absolutely love.

Now the question is in T2 are people gonna start play 10-12 dom's?

While I agree on the 1st point that it is better in T1, it is still awesome for T2.  From my experience most T2 players are not going to carry more than 2 unique characters due to the potential clog in your hand, so being able to have 2 of that lost soul basically kills Samuel, Isaiah, Red Banding offenses in just two turns.  I love the defense seen so far, my decks might become more of a trick (for lack of better term) defense but will be super strong!

On the 2nd point, is there a problem with finally having close to the max of dominants in T2?   ;D  ;)

As an exclusive T2-player I'd thought I would weigh in on the dominants question.  In our play group, everyone plays with the "core 5" dominants - SOG/NJ, CM, Burial, and FA - after that, most will play with GoYS, Mayhem, and DofN - though there is some variability there.  That puts your typical total around 8.  I know at that point you already start to wrestle with card slots at that number, so I think that as more dominants come into play T2 players will make more choices on what to cut - and that is not a bad thing.  I enjoy the strategic challenge of what stays in and what has to leave.  I don't think a dominant cap will have too much relevance to most T2 players unless the cards got silly.

Overall, I am extremely greatful for the hard work everyone put into the new starter deck and redesign.  Job well done.  I am most appreciative of the ability coming off the graphic.  A new starter deck will be an excellent opportunity for me to re-boot the game in our community and I welcome it's arrival!
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Locutus on April 29, 2013, 11:36:50 AM
Has anybody thought of an answer to Gabe hint about the tin: How the evil defense will be Foreign to most of us.

I guess we can confirm Americans are not in this set.

Probably not.  But how about Canadians?  :)
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Locutus on April 29, 2013, 11:41:23 AM
The soul is better in T1 for sure. Vain philosophy is interesting. I can see defense is getting a legitimized boost in these cards which I absolutely love.

Now the question is in T2 are people gonna start play 10-12 dom's?

While I agree on the 1st point that it is better in T1, it is still awesome for T2.  From my experience most T2 players are not going to carry more than 2 unique characters due to the potential clog in your hand, so being able to have 2 of that lost soul basically kills Samuel, Isaiah, Red Banding offenses in just two turns.  I love the defense seen so far, my decks might become more of a trick (for lack of better term) defense but will be super strong!

On the 2nd point, is there a problem with finally having close to the max of dominants in T2?   ;D  ;)

As an exclusive T2-player I'd thought I would weigh in on the dominants question.  In our play group, everyone plays with the "core 5" dominants - SOG/NJ, CM, Burial, and FA - after that, most will play with GoYS, Mayhem, and DofN - though there is some variability there.  That puts your typical total around 8.  I know at that point you already start to wrestle with card slots at that number, so I think that as more dominants come into play T2 players will make more choices on what to cut - and that is not a bad thing.  I enjoy the strategic challenge of what stays in and what has to leave.  I don't think a dominant cap will have too much relevance to most T2 players unless the cards got silly.

Woops - how could I leave out Grapes from the list?
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Arrthoa on April 29, 2013, 11:43:40 AM
Next time you can just modify your post, instead of posting again ;).
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Locutus on April 29, 2013, 11:53:56 AM
Next time you can just modify your post, instead of posting again ;).

Thanks for that ... I realized that right after I hit send ... I just don't post that often ...
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Arrthoa on April 29, 2013, 12:02:56 PM
Going off of how we were told the tin's defense would be "Foreign", If that refers to Foreign Sword from the previous set than it would have to be Philistines or Canaanites. That is just a assumption on my part.

My other assumption, as many others have stated too, is that it will be Syrians. I base this off of the fact that Scattered is in the tin and gray in one of the 4 brigades on it. Although it could be Persians due to the Brown, but I find this very unlikely since brown got a big boost in the last set.

I do think Persians will appear in the Starter Deck though
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Redoubter on April 29, 2013, 12:13:42 PM
I assume it will be for all Temples since there's no evidence that I know which indicates these were not present in Z's and Herod's Temples.

I agree that it is a Solomon's Temple Artifact for sure, and not in the Tabernacle, but this part has me a little puzzled.  I will review the actual verses when I get back this afternoon, but the research I have done briefly tells me that there was neither a Holy of Holies nor Golden Cherubim in Zerubbabel's Temple.  I don't know about Herod's Temple, which may have been built more like Solomon's, but shouldn't we only include artifacts that are stated to be in the Temple, rather than allowing any that has no mention they weren't there?
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Minister Polarius on April 29, 2013, 03:44:46 PM
Herod's temple is the same building as Z's temple, just upgraded.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Mageduckey on April 29, 2013, 05:47:06 PM
But were all of the artifacts still there, or had some of them been removed/destroyed/etc.?
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Prof Underwood on April 29, 2013, 09:41:59 PM
I just don't post that often ...
Anyone who is a fan of ST:TNG (as your username indicates) should clearly post more often :)
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Locutus on April 30, 2013, 12:35:06 PM
I just don't post that often ...
Anyone who is a fan of ST:TNG (as your username indicates) should clearly post more often :)

I am impressed you caught the reference.  :)
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Sadness on April 30, 2013, 02:12:28 PM
I don't know who keeps giving negatives to those of us that aren't liking the Scripture change,but please quit. Post your reasons why you like the change. Redemption,not negativity ;D
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Professoralstad on April 30, 2013, 02:35:44 PM
I don't know who keeps giving negatives to those of us that aren't liking the Scripture change,but please quit. Post your reasons why you like the change. Redemption,not negativity ;D

I haven't been giving negatives to anyone, but I do disagree with those who don't like the change. It's also worth pointing out that most of the people who have posted opposition to the change haven't given any substantive reason either, but have just said that they don't like the change (or providing faulty analogies to express their displeasure). I don't view that as any more or less helpful to the discussion than clicking the "-" sign (and it saves a potential poster time). It just means that there is disagreement (as there obviously will be, given people's preference for scripture versions).

I don't want to get into a major debate on scripture versions or anything, but I would certainly encourage people to really look into the history of the various versions of scripture, and find out which are better for reading, study, preaching, and evangelism. I assure you that a majority of people who study the Bible would say that the answer is not the same for all four. 
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: drb1200 on April 30, 2013, 02:40:14 PM
I don't know who keeps giving negatives to those of us that aren't liking the Scripture change,but please quit. Post your reasons why you like the change. Redemption,not negativity ;D
That would be me, and I did post my reason for liking the change.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: soul seeker on April 30, 2013, 02:44:08 PM
I read Sadness post.  Left the boards, came back to post something near identical to what Prof Alstad posted.  Therefore, I gave him a 1+.

Sometimes a -1 is nothing more than someone disagrees with your opinion, and maybe their opinion has already been shared by someone else like ProfA or Kirk. 

FTR: Like Prof A, I have not given any -1s out either though I've thought Redemption should have moved from KJV a long time ago thus I've supported their current Scripture change.


Since I'm in this thread, I will give a general consensus of my thoughts on the new card design:
    1. Scripture change: as already stated..I like it.
    2. New font: frankly, I didn't even noticed until someone said something, and it's fine with me.  If it is easily read, then it serves it's purpose.
    3. Art off picture:  This popped out to me and I love it.  This alone has won me over to the new card design.
    4. Roundness of box:  Didn't notice until mentioned and it didn't bother me.
    5. Removal of scroll with Bible:  Didn't notice until Alex mentioned it in video..I agree with him.  I'm a little sad, but I will be okay with it in the long run.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Red on April 30, 2013, 02:45:42 PM
It's funny how people down vote anything they disagree with, while the most disagreeable of us(myself) never uses the feature any longer. Can a mod please cleanse the thread of the scripture change debate?
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: JSB23 on April 30, 2013, 02:53:00 PM
In order to make Sadness not feel singled out, I have -1'd everyone on this page.
Thank you for your cooperation in this matter.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: lp670sv on April 30, 2013, 02:59:44 PM
It's funny how people down vote anything they disagree with, while the most disagreeable of us(myself) never uses the feature any longer. Can a mod please cleanse the thread of the scripture change debate?

Why? it's relevant to the new cards
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Arrthoa on April 30, 2013, 03:08:15 PM
In order to make Sadness not feel singled out, I have -1'd everyone on this page.
Thank you for your cooperation in this matter.
In my defense, I never even touched the topic of the scripture change. I really don't mind the translation of it as long as I can read it and understand it. The only thing I have mainly talked about are the actual cards themselves and not any of the nitpicking.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Iamalittleking on April 30, 2013, 03:35:28 PM
What change to scripture i did not even notice there was one.

also Is any one else worried that Golden cherubim might increase speed decks or is it just me? FWI i am not trying to bash the set or anything. Just asking for what you guys think.  :)
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Captain Kirk on April 30, 2013, 03:38:26 PM
I don't know who keeps giving negatives to those of us that aren't liking the Scripture change,but please quit. Post your reasons why you like the change. Redemption,not negativity ;D

I did give my reasons in favor of the change, as well as several others.

It's funny how people down vote anything they disagree with, while the most disagreeable of us(myself) never uses the feature any longer. Can a mod please cleanse the thread of the scripture change debate?

Why? it's relevant to the new cards

I agree with LP - it is relevant to the new cards. I also don't think you would have posted anything on this thread concerning the Scripture change in the first place if you didn't think it was also relevant to the thread.

Kirk
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Alex_Olijar on April 30, 2013, 04:08:55 PM
I'm going to go ahead and just toss out the KJV isn't God, and neither is the NASB.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Minion of Jesus on April 30, 2013, 04:29:59 PM
I don't know who keeps giving negatives to those of us that aren't liking the Scripture change,but please quit. Post your reasons why you like the change. Redemption,not negativity ;D

I haven't been giving negatives to anyone, but I do disagree with those who don't like the change. It's also worth pointing out that most of the people who have posted opposition to the change haven't given any substantive reason either, but have just said that they don't like the change (or providing faulty analogies to express their displeasure). I don't view that as any more or less helpful to the discussion than clicking the "-" sign (and it saves a potential poster time). It just means that there is disagreement (as there obviously will be, given people's preference for scripture versions).

I don't want to get into a major debate on scripture versions or anything, but I would certainly encourage people to really look into the history of the various versions of scripture, and find out which are better for reading, study, preaching, and evangelism. I assure you that a majority of people who study the Bible would say that the answer is not the same for all four.

The reason I dislike the scripture change is because you lose the richness of the language. Here's two quotes (both from real, printed bibles):
"We bring tidings of great joy to all." or, "We bring good news that will make everyone happy." Which is more, I guess, beautiful? Which can you take more seriously? I know some like the new version because it's easier to understand. However, we are all entitled to our own opinions.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Alex_Olijar on April 30, 2013, 04:33:27 PM
I don't know who keeps giving negatives to those of us that aren't liking the Scripture change,but please quit. Post your reasons why you like the change. Redemption,not negativity ;D

I haven't been giving negatives to anyone, but I do disagree with those who don't like the change. It's also worth pointing out that most of the people who have posted opposition to the change haven't given any substantive reason either, but have just said that they don't like the change (or providing faulty analogies to express their displeasure). I don't view that as any more or less helpful to the discussion than clicking the "-" sign (and it saves a potential poster time). It just means that there is disagreement (as there obviously will be, given people's preference for scripture versions).

I don't want to get into a major debate on scripture versions or anything, but I would certainly encourage people to really look into the history of the various versions of scripture, and find out which are better for reading, study, preaching, and evangelism. I assure you that a majority of people who study the Bible would say that the answer is not the same for all four.

The reason I dislike the scripture change is because you lose the richness of the language. Here's two quotes (both from real, printed bibles):
"We bring tidings of great joy to all." or, "We bring good news that will make everyone happy." Which is more, I guess, beautiful? Which can you take more seriously? I know some like the new version because it's easier to understand. However, we are all entitled to our own opinions.

I don't really care how beautiful the words are when they weren't even translated from the original text.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Iamalittleking on April 30, 2013, 04:38:04 PM
I don't know who keeps giving negatives to those of us that aren't liking the Scripture change,but please quit. Post your reasons why you like the change. Redemption,not negativity ;D

I haven't been giving negatives to anyone, but I do disagree with those who don't like the change. It's also worth pointing out that most of the people who have posted opposition to the change haven't given any substantive reason either, but have just said that they don't like the change (or providing faulty analogies to express their displeasure). I don't view that as any more or less helpful to the discussion than clicking the "-" sign (and it saves a potential poster time). It just means that there is disagreement (as there obviously will be, given people's preference for scripture versions).

I don't want to get into a major debate on scripture versions or anything, but I would certainly encourage people to really look into the history of the various versions of scripture, and find out which are better for reading, study, preaching, and evangelism. I assure you that a majority of people who study the Bible would say that the answer is not the same for all four.

The reason I dislike the scripture change is because you lose the richness of the language. Here's two quotes (both from real, printed bibles):
"We bring tidings of great joy to all." or, "We bring good news that will make everyone happy." Which is more, I guess, beautiful? Which can you take more seriously? I know some like the new version because it's easier to understand. However, we are all entitled to our own opinions.

Which Can the 7 years old and up one can read and not be confused. I agree that you have right to this opinion. But some KJV are really hard to get. And i guess what my point hear is why does this matter where is the impact of your point.(sorry of that sounds like Debater but it is my life) BTW what version did it get change too.

Alex you do know that we have zero originals. so nothing we have to date came come from the originals.   
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Sadness on April 30, 2013, 04:51:47 PM
Okay. First off I'm going to apologize to anyone I offended bout the Scripture change. I went to the wiki and looked up versions of the Bible. Since the 5th century to today,there has been over 76 versions. Several before the 1611 and quite a few since then. Found out some very interesting things too. Earlier I said I was KJV only-found out there's a group of folks that call themselves that. They're split into 5 types. I'm with the 'prefer reading KJV as its what I grew up with'. I don't mind occasionally reading the NKJV when I want to see a verse in a different light.   Hope that clears the air with all of you.

Now about the new set-Really like it. I like the gap between the Scripture and what the card does. Artwork is impressive as always. Looking forward to the new disciple cards that we haven't seen yet. Cause I think there's an Andrew card too,right?
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Iamalittleking on April 30, 2013, 04:54:25 PM


Now about the new set-Really like it. I like the gap between the Scripture and what the card does. Artwork is impressive as always. Looking forward to the new disciple cards that we haven't seen yet. Cause I think there's an Andrew card too,right?
I am just glad i have Peter that does some besides 4dc and TgT. So hope a def is Syrians. 
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: TheJaylor on April 30, 2013, 06:03:19 PM
We could just copy it from original Hebrew/Greek (depending on the Testament) and then have the English version of the reference in parentheses afterwards... ;)
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Alex_Olijar on April 30, 2013, 06:09:09 PM
Alex you do know that we have zero originals. so nothing we have to date came come from the originals.   

This is technically accurate, but there's a difference between translation from the greek (original language; this is used by most translations) and translating from the Latin Vulgate (a translation of the original translation that adds words to the text; this is the "original" used to translate the King James into English).
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Redoubter on April 30, 2013, 06:49:51 PM
Herod's temple is the same building as Z's temple, just upgraded.

Yes, the building was the same, though not necessarily the contents.  Further, neither Z Temple nor Herod's Temple have any historical or biblical basis for including the Cherubim, from what I can see.  This feature was exclusive to Solomon's Temple from what I have read so far, and may need to be limited to that fortress alone.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Professoralstad on April 30, 2013, 07:14:42 PM
Okay. First off I'm going to apologize to anyone I offended bout the Scripture change. I went to the wiki and looked up versions of the Bible. Since the 5th century to today,there has been over 76 versions. Several before the 1611 and quite a few since then. Found out some very interesting things too. Earlier I said I was KJV only-found out there's a group of folks that call themselves that. They're split into 5 types. I'm with the 'prefer reading KJV as its what I grew up with'. I don't mind occasionally reading the NKJV when I want to see a verse in a different light.   Hope that clears the air with all of you.

Now about the new set-Really like it. I like the gap between the Scripture and what the card does. Artwork is impressive as always. Looking forward to the new disciple cards that we haven't seen yet. Cause I think there's an Andrew card too,right?

I don't think anyone was actually offended by what you said, but I'm glad you looked into it. I have no problem with the KJV, nor with people who prefer it. I personally prefer the NASB/ESV, as they are considered by most scholars that I have read to be as close as any English version to the original languages. But I also believe that truth is truth no matter how it is phrased, and I don't begrudge anyone for preferring a different version.

In order to make Sadness not feel singled out, I have -1'd everyone on this page.
Thank you for your cooperation in this matter.

Ow. My feelings.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: KingLeo on April 30, 2013, 08:43:32 PM
Hey could we have some more spoilers or at least info about when we will know all the cards abilities at least XD

Thanks, KingLeo 8)
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Gabe on April 30, 2013, 10:56:53 PM
Hey could we have some more spoilers or at least info about when we will know all the cards abilities at least XD

The new starter deck and tin will be released via RTS on May 15th. I cannot speak for Mike Wolfe who manages Redemption Live! but I believe he also has permission to release the cards through that medium on or around the same date.

Spoiler (hover to show)
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Arrthoa on April 30, 2013, 11:24:42 PM
This is for my friend :'(

Least we'll have a card list soon.  ;D
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: KingLeo on May 01, 2013, 09:30:56 AM
Hey could we have some more spoilers or at least info about when we will know all the cards abilities at least XD

The new starter deck and tin will be released via RTS on May 15th. I cannot speak for Mike Wolfe who manages Redemption Live! but I believe he also has permission to release the cards through that medium on or around the same date.

Spoiler (hover to show)

Thank you!!

KingLeo 8)
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Mr. Tumnus on May 01, 2013, 10:32:00 AM
So do we have a ballpark idea of when these will be available?  I am hoping to have a sealed deck category for NY States on may 31.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Arrthoa on May 01, 2013, 10:37:06 AM
So do we have a ballpark idea of when these will be available?  I am hoping to have a sealed deck category for NY States on may 31.
It was mentioned in that mid June was the time if I recall correctly
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Master Q on May 02, 2013, 12:53:59 AM
Scattered is ridiculous at 1st glance. Splash-able in almost every defense with an easily achieved CBN clause, and is recurable (unlike Haman's Plot, the previous splash champ)? :o

Desperate times, eh?
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Master KChief on May 02, 2013, 03:34:17 AM
It is ridiculous, easily the most staple defensive card outside of Dominants. Represents all 3 of the most used splash brigades, and the ability is completely busted against the meta (not to mention still a battle winner in every case). Yes please, may I have another?
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on May 02, 2013, 09:32:05 AM
the ability is completely busted against the meta (not to mention still a battle winner in every case). Yes please, may I have another?

This. I'm all for strong anti-meta cards when they are on DEFENSE. The balance of OP battle winners was skewed waaaay too heavily towards offense.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Red on May 02, 2013, 09:43:35 AM
It is ridiculous, easily the most staple defensive card outside of Dominants. Represents all 3 of the most used splash brigades, and the ability is completely busted against the meta (not to mention still a battle winner in every case). Yes please, may I have another?
You can still play around it. FBTNB is fine:P
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Arrthoa on May 02, 2013, 09:47:10 AM
Scattered is ridiculous at 1st glance. Splash-able in almost every defense with an easily achieved CBN clause, and is recurable (unlike Haman's Plot, the previous splash champ)? :o

Desperate times, eh?
What allows you to recur it? Balaam is limited to curses and I don't think Nebby lets you search discard for an O.T Crimson
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Red on May 02, 2013, 09:59:48 AM
King Amon.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Josh on May 02, 2013, 11:25:29 AM
You can also recur it with Imitating Evil (which you can have 4 of in T2 decks).
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Gabe on May 02, 2013, 12:11:09 PM
Don't forget about Scribe.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on May 02, 2013, 12:30:13 PM
I just realized something about Scattered.

If it was to truly live up to its name, shouldn't it have been a shuffle instead of an underdeck?  ;)
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Gabe on May 02, 2013, 12:54:01 PM
The card started out with a generic name "Penalty of Disobedience" which we really didn't like. We considered calling it "Disband" and "Exiled to Foreigners" before we finally settled on "Scattered".
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Professoralstad on May 02, 2013, 01:00:00 PM
The card started out with a generic name "Penalty of Disobedience" which we really didn't like. We considered calling it "Disband" and "Exiled to Foreigners" before we finally settled on "Scattered".

Indeed. We also tried to limit the amount of new cards that shuffled decks in-game with this set. That can be one of the most time-consuming parts of the game.

But what about Golden Cherubim you say? Well, the idea behind that card was less about increasing searches, and more about decreasing draw abilities.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on May 02, 2013, 01:04:18 PM
The card started out with a generic name "Penalty of Disobedience"

That sounds like a generic 2/2 evil enhancement from Unlimited / Prophets.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: browarod on May 02, 2013, 01:14:26 PM
Just saw this on Facebook, new card preview:

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/923085_10151480287694900_1672006423_n.jpg)
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Arrthoa on May 02, 2013, 01:19:01 PM
I predict that this Dom will be in most, if not all, Herod Defense decks. It works well with Herod Agrippa II.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: RTSmaniac on May 02, 2013, 01:21:50 PM
So many doms, so few card slots. At least it works around Lampstand.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on May 02, 2013, 01:23:18 PM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/p480x480/942208_10151480290334900_145720885_n.jpg)

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/p480x480/247074_10151480289104900_350710518_n.jpg)
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: browarod on May 02, 2013, 01:28:33 PM
Solomon's Temple = the latest good fortress to support an evil theme! Maybe the other Gates will show up in decks again now, though pairing with Teal is ehhhhhh.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Arrthoa on May 02, 2013, 01:30:04 PM
We now have a lost soul that can recur those key Heroes in offenses like Isaiah and his angels. This will be in a majority of decks too, I say.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: browarod on May 02, 2013, 01:32:12 PM
We now have a lost soul that can recur those key Heroes in offenses like Isaiah and his angels. This will be in a majority of decks too, I say.
My question about the new Soul: Why bother specifying from territory? Is there any other place Lost Souls can be rescued from? lol
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: RTSmaniac on May 02, 2013, 01:33:52 PM
Souls your opponent doesnt want to rescue seems good. Plays well with Gates of Hell too.

Solomons Temple is better that Herods Temple without the discard top X cards of deck. Helping Kings of Judah seems broken.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: TimMierz on May 02, 2013, 01:36:01 PM
My question about the new Soul: Why bother specifying from territory? Is there any other place Lost Souls can be rescued from? lol

It might be so that newer players don't think that if you rescue your opponent's soul, that you get to search. It's redundant but not harmful.

I'm usually not a fan of "after this is rescued" souls... I'd rather them be harder to rescue in the first place!
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Drrek on May 02, 2013, 02:07:19 PM
My question about the new Soul: Why bother specifying from territory? Is there any other place Lost Souls can be rescued from? lol

It might be so that newer players don't think that if you rescue your opponent's soul, that you get to search. It's redundant but not harmful.

I would think its likely to avoid confusion for a new player that if your soul gets exchanged/sent over to opponent's territory, you don't get to search if you (or another opponent in multiplayer) rescues it from his territory then, that they would think they get to search.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: drb1200 on May 02, 2013, 02:35:19 PM
The more I see it, the better I like the redesign.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Professoralstad on May 02, 2013, 02:36:24 PM
My question about the new Soul: Why bother specifying from territory? Is there any other place Lost Souls can be rescued from? lol

It might be so that newer players don't think that if you rescue your opponent's soul, that you get to search. It's redundant but not harmful.

I'm usually not a fan of "after this is rescued" souls... I'd rather them be harder to rescue in the first place!

One of the goals of the design of the starters was to limit the types of abilities included. We also tried to develop ways to inhibit soul unavailability. So we didn't want to make the souls harder to rescue, but we did want to create souls that help to offset the disadvantage of handing over an LS.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: 777Godspeed on May 02, 2013, 02:37:43 PM
I like the Lost Soul. It gets rescued from my territory and I get to grab a hero out of my discard pile. Nice...very nice...


Godspeed,
Mike
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Iamalittleking on May 02, 2013, 02:50:18 PM
wow that soul is Amazing. Can some one say Uriah New BFF
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: sepjazzwarrior on May 02, 2013, 03:18:48 PM
between the new Solomon temple, gates of Jerusalem, scattered, and gib trick, king amon is going to be a boss
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Gabe on May 02, 2013, 03:38:34 PM
between the new Solomon temple, gates of Jerusalem, scattered, and gib trick, king amon is going to be a boss

I'd like to see someone figure out how to abuse Philosophy with him and Solomon's Temple. We tried and didn't find the combo to be broken but maybe one of you can prove us wrong.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Drrek on May 02, 2013, 03:42:09 PM
Since there was already a nickname for the other soul, do the playtesters have one for this one too?

All three cards look good to me, the lost soul is very useful, but not too powerful.  I don't see Strife being used too much in type I (except for HAII and turtles), but definitely would have its uses in type II.  Solomon's temple is interesting, but how much its used will depend greatly on what cards are in that new tin.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: sepjazzwarrior on May 02, 2013, 03:43:41 PM
you dont even need to abuse philosophy (although i can think of an old combo that could be adapted to the purpose), you just need a few teal enhancements to get him past grapes and AotL, then his inish and CBN ehnancements/ability should do the rest
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Mageduckey on May 02, 2013, 04:20:21 PM
between the new Solomon temple, gates of Jerusalem, scattered, and gib trick, king amon is going to be a boss

I'd like to see someone figure out how to abuse Philosophy with him and Solomon's Temple. We tried and didn't find the combo to be broken but maybe one of you can prove us wrong.

Entirely broken, no.  But definitely very workable, especially since the Temple covers both your offense and your defense without discarding from the top of deck.  I can't wait to work it over in T2 :)

Solomon's Temple = the latest good fortress to support an evil theme! Maybe the other Gates will show up in decks again now, though pairing with Teal is ehhhhhh.

If Teal is protected from discard and capture and has stuff like Zeal and Trumpet&Sword combined with Ezekiel's recursion and Amariah's CBI (not quite as good as Joshua's CBN, but still good)...I see Teal getting a huge boost from this, personally.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Professoralstad on May 02, 2013, 06:24:11 PM
you dont even need to abuse philosophy (although i can think of an old combo that could be adapted to the purpose), you just need a few teal enhancements to get him past grapes and AotL, then his inish and CBN ehnancements/ability should do the rest

between the new Solomon temple, gates of Jerusalem, scattered, and gib trick, king amon is going to be a boss

I'd like to see someone figure out how to abuse Philosophy with him and Solomon's Temple. We tried and didn't find the combo to be broken but maybe one of you can prove us wrong.

Entirely broken, no.  But definitely very workable, especially since the Temple covers both your offense and your defense without discarding from the top of deck.  I can't wait to work it over in T2 :)

I think the biggest reason not to worry too much is a couple of starter deck cards that will be rather earth-shattering to most T2 strategies (on the same level as Nazareth I would say). I am excited to see what people will use as ways around them.  :)
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Smokey on May 02, 2013, 06:25:42 PM
Since there was already a nickname for the other soul, do the playtesters have one for this one too?

My nickname is the seductive eyebrow soul.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Gabe on May 02, 2013, 06:47:48 PM
Since there was already a nickname for the other soul, do the playtesters have one for this one too?

It's either called "Resurrection" or "Resurrect".
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on May 02, 2013, 09:09:31 PM
I'm gonna call it the New-U soul.

"R-R-R-R-R-R-RESPAAAAWN!"
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: jbeers285 on May 02, 2013, 09:40:43 PM
What about calling it "saving grace" LS
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Sadness on May 02, 2013, 10:22:11 PM
Revival
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: TheJaylor on May 02, 2013, 10:48:44 PM
I vote "Risorgimento".
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Jmbeers on May 02, 2013, 10:55:41 PM
One word names or abrivieations seem to work best.

How about "The Trader"
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on May 02, 2013, 11:16:30 PM
One word names or abrivieations seem to work best.

How about "The Trader"

That's two words.  :P

In seriousness, how about "Recur"?

Short, simple, and to the point. You recur a hero with it.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Jmbeers on May 02, 2013, 11:35:52 PM
Haha

So is the hopper, the wander... Yada yada...

The will go in front of whatever we name it.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: jbeers285 on May 02, 2013, 11:39:58 PM
How about "wheel within an Isaiah's call 2.0"
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Isildur on May 02, 2013, 11:53:03 PM
I always called that soul the "Lazarus" soul.... in reference to a "Lazarus Pit" not the person Lazarus  :P
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Alex_Olijar on May 03, 2013, 12:37:36 AM
Gates of Jerusalem + Solomon's Temple + Haman's Gallows + Philosophy + ET + King Amon + Haman's Plot

Best 7 card semi-infinite block in the game.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Red on May 03, 2013, 12:41:59 AM
Gates of Jerusalem + Solomon's Temple + Haman's Gallows + Philosophy + ET + King Amon + Haman's Plot

Best 7 card semi-infinite block in the game.
Doesnt Work.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: christiangamer25 on May 03, 2013, 12:43:50 AM
lol care to explain red
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Alex_Olijar on May 03, 2013, 12:44:17 AM
Gates of Jerusalem + Solomon's Temple + Haman's Gallows + Philosophy + ET + King Amon + Haman's Plot

Best 7 card semi-infinite block in the game.
Doesnt Work.

Removed from the game, discarded, whatever. I haven't showered in two days and my sleep schedule is jacked. Whatever.

#FinalsWeek2013 #yolo
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Crashfach2002 on May 03, 2013, 08:12:22 AM
Just throw in covenant of Eden and then you have it!
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Gabe on May 03, 2013, 08:47:17 AM
Just throw in covenant of Eden and then you have it!

So that no character may be removed from the game?  ::)
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Minion of Jesus on May 03, 2013, 08:53:18 AM
There isn't a way to protect EVIL enhancements from discard, I don't think. Anyway, this is kind of ridiculous. TWO NEW EVIL DOMS introduced in one, easy to acquire set? I know, comparitively, they aren't all that good, but still... I think we can expect to see them in lots of noob decks.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: TheJaylor on May 03, 2013, 09:27:44 AM
Hey, Daniel, would you mind adding all the cards people posted onto the original post if you get the time? I probably wouldn't have noticed them if I didn't look back because I almost didn't. That'd be great. Thanks!
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on May 03, 2013, 09:35:10 AM
I just had a thought...

Every starter to this point has included SoG, AotL, and either CM or Burial. Will Vain Philosophy and Strife replace CM / Burial in this set?

Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: RTSmaniac on May 03, 2013, 10:31:11 AM
There isn't a way to protect EVIL enhancements from discard, I don't think. Anyway, this is kind of ridiculous. TWO NEW EVIL DOMS introduced in one, easy to acquire set? I know, comparitively, they aren't all that good, but still... I think we can expect to see them in lots of noob decks.

Ever lost to a random noob deck? I have.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: TheJaylor on May 03, 2013, 10:33:19 AM
In addition to Lambo's comment, will the Son of God in the J deck have different art and if so can that be seen too since we know it's coming?  :P
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Professoralstad on May 03, 2013, 10:38:54 AM
I just had a thought...

Every starter to this point has included SoG, AotL, and either CM or Burial. Will Vain Philosophy and Strife replace CM / Burial in this set?

There's a hint earlier in this thread that may help you determine the answer to that question.  ::)
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: KingLeo on May 03, 2013, 11:13:39 AM
Wow, I can't even fix or mess around with my decks cause I'm so excited about these cards  ;D Probably every single one of my decks right now is going to be completely destroyed and all previously saved decks on RTS gone  :rollin: any one else feel this way  :laugh:

Thanks,
KingLeo 8)
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Redoubter on May 03, 2013, 07:10:23 PM
Anyway, this is kind of ridiculous. TWO NEW EVIL DOMS introduced in one, easy to acquire set? I know, comparitively, they aren't all that good, but still... I think we can expect to see them in lots of noob decks.

I LOVE the fact that more staple cards and doms come out in Starters.  What is wrong with a new player getting better cards just by someone giving them a starter deck to get going?  Absolutely nothing.  Many better doms like Grapes, NJ, Mayhem, DoN, and Falling Away are too hard to come by or too expensive for most brand new players.  They end up with the basic doms, if they even have all 4 of those.  If they can upgrade on doms just by having a starter deck, there is absolutely nothing wrong with it.  It should be encouraged in future sets :)

Basically, I don't get why these cards should be harder to get ;)
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Mageduckey on May 03, 2013, 07:16:07 PM
If they can upgrade on doms just by having a starter deck, there is absolutely nothing wrong with it.  It should be encouraged in future sets :)

Basically, I don't get why these cards should be harder to get ;)

 +1
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Josh on May 03, 2013, 10:23:43 PM
It is ridiculous, easily the most staple defensive card outside of Dominants. Represents all 3 of the most used splash brigades, and the ability is completely busted against the meta (not to mention still a battle winner in every case). Yes please, may I have another?

* Looks at Scattered x1 *
* Looks at Sam's Edict x4/AoCP x4/Bravery of David x4/Valley of Salt x4/MLaMG x4/etc. *
* Starts to wonder if Scattered could have been printed with single or dual brigades *
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: lightningninja on May 03, 2013, 10:33:56 PM
Let's be honest, they don't look quite as cool because the images aren't as cool as Daniel can find on the internet without worrying about copyright. The actual template is great.  :) I'm very glad to see improvement!
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Warrior_Monk on May 04, 2013, 12:33:03 AM
It is ridiculous, easily the most staple defensive card outside of Dominants. Represents all 3 of the most used splash brigades, and the ability is completely busted against the meta (not to mention still a battle winner in every case). Yes please, may I have another?

* Looks at Scattered x1 *
* Looks at Sam's Edict x4/AoCP x4/Bravery of David x4/Valley of Salt x4/MLaMG x4/etc. *
* Starts to wonder if Scattered could have been printed with single or dual brigades *
And despite all that, Defense is still king in T2. Chump blocks are OP.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Gabe on May 04, 2013, 01:42:39 AM
* Starts to wonder if Scattered could have been printed with single or dual brigades *

There are plans to make single/dual color cards with this type of ability in the future. This year we had a limited number of non-starter deck cards to work with and wanted something that would impact that offensive meta.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Jmbeers on May 04, 2013, 05:58:29 AM
I love the push towards more D in the game, it's not even close to balanced right now.

But im not sure 2,4 cards that everyone must play are the answers. Still, I'm happy to see D getting real attention.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Minion of Jesus on May 04, 2013, 07:48:51 AM
Anyway, this is kind of ridiculous. TWO NEW EVIL DOMS introduced in one, easy to acquire set? I know, comparitively, they aren't all that good, but still... I think we can expect to see them in lots of noob decks.

I LOVE the fact that more staple cards and doms come out in Starters.  What is wrong with a new player getting better cards just by someone giving them a starter deck to get going?  Absolutely nothing.  Many better doms like Grapes, NJ, Mayhem, DoN, and Falling Away are too hard to come by or too expensive for most brand new players.  They end up with the basic doms, if they even have all 4 of those.  If they can upgrade on doms just by having a starter deck, there is absolutely nothing wrong with it.  It should be encouraged in future sets :)

Basically, I don't get why these cards should be harder to get ;)

I didn't mean, "WOW, THESE ARE EPIC CARDS THAT SHOULD BE HARDER TO GET!!!!!!!!!!" I was just saying Cactus has never made it so easy to get so many new, useful doms all at the same time. I'm not saying they should be harder to get. I'm just saying it's unusual for Cactus.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Gabe on May 04, 2013, 08:13:00 AM
With the Dominant cap we now have the freedom to make Dominants that are maybe a little more deck specific and easier to get without worrying about bloating players decks with Dominants. It's too early to say for sure but there's a good chance we might see Dominants printed a little more frequently now.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: MitchRobStew on May 04, 2013, 10:56:58 AM
It is ridiculous, easily the most staple defensive card outside of Dominants. Represents all 3 of the most used splash brigades, and the ability is completely busted against the meta (not to mention still a battle winner in every case). Yes please, may I have another?

* Looks at Scattered x1 *
* Looks at Sam's Edict x4/AoCP x4/Bravery of David x4/Valley of Salt x4/MLaMG x4/etc. *
* Starts to wonder if Scattered could have been printed with single or dual brigades *
And despite all that, Defense is still king in T2. Chump blocks are OP.

So true.  D gets inish a majority of the time to set up those chump blocks.  Really rely on offensive character abilities in my main decks to somewhat counteract this.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Gabe on May 04, 2013, 05:52:25 PM
I'm really not supposed to spoil any cards or post images, but I can't help myself. I'll probably get fired for this...

We've reprinted one of my favorite cards! I bring 7 of these to every tournament I attend. ENJOY!

Spoiler (hover to show)
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Bobbert on May 04, 2013, 06:03:17 PM
I'm really not supposed to spoil any cards or post images, but I can't help myself. I'll probably get fired for this...

We've reprinted one of my favorite cards! I bring 7 of these to every tournament I attend. ENJOY!

Spoiler (hover to show)

Definitely going in all of my decks.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Minion of Jesus on May 04, 2013, 06:54:50 PM
I'm really not supposed to spoil any cards or post images, but I can't help myself. I'll probably get fired for this...

We've reprinted one of my favorite cards! I bring 7 of these to every tournament I attend. ENJOY!

Spoiler (hover to show)

OH MY GOSH SO EPIC!
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: TheJaylor on May 05, 2013, 12:03:45 AM
I'm really not supposed to spoil any cards or post images, but I can't help myself. I'll probably get fired for this...

We've reprinted one of my favorite cards! I bring 7 of these to every tournament I attend. ENJOY!

Spoiler (hover to show)
Woah! New look. Looks good.  :P
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: RTSmaniac on May 05, 2013, 12:49:12 AM
(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages2.wikia.nocookie.net%2F__cb20130421155125%2Fredemption%2Fimages%2Fthumb%2F1%2F1e%2FProverbs_21_24_%2528F%2529.jpg%2F241px-Proverbs_21_24_%2528F%2529.jpg&hash=ab0ee8febd944a6237fdd49482b2684fb55c430e)  (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/97804213/Lost-Soul.jpg)

I like the first printing better. I hope this card has a special ability to fill in that empty space.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Sadness on May 05, 2013, 10:33:50 PM
Gabe, are we going to get any new promos this season?
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: drb1200 on May 05, 2013, 10:47:01 PM
1st post updated. Sorry for the delay.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Red on May 05, 2013, 10:51:25 PM
To people asking about promos. Starter+tin cards=110. Rob uses a 60 card sheet. Therefore 120 spaces=new promos. Cartamundi may use different sheets but I doubt it. This is also a promo year thinking logically again.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Gabe on May 06, 2013, 12:05:12 AM
Gabe, are we going to get any new promos this season?

I'm not really at liberty to say. Even if I could I'm not completely sure my answer would be correct. What I can say it this - I want to see new promos worse than most of you do!  :)
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Alex_Olijar on May 06, 2013, 12:30:12 AM
Promos won't come this years unless there's a Nats promo. There's tournaments for Regionals Memorial Day, so I don't think there's enough time to get them out.

Just my own speculation.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: jbeers285 on May 06, 2013, 01:05:30 AM
Promos won't come this years unless there's a Nats promo. There's tournaments for Regionals Memorial Day, so I don't think there's enough time to get them out.

Just my own speculation.

sad day
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: browarod on May 06, 2013, 08:45:20 AM
I'm interested to see the promos with the new card layout. Does anyone have the gold background for their new frame templates that could make one just to see how it looks?
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Gabe on May 06, 2013, 07:01:30 PM
I'm a little disappointed that nobody has picked up on the clues I've left. Maybe they weren't as obvious as I thought. I'll try to spell them out a little more clearly.

The defense in that tin is going to be a theme that's quite foreign to most of you.

You guys will have to think outside the box a little to guess this one. ;)
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Noah on May 06, 2013, 07:15:29 PM
I'm a little disappointed that nobody has picked up on the clues I've left. Maybe they weren't as obvious as I thought. I'll try to spell them out a little more clearly.

The defense in that tin is going to be a theme that's quite foreign to most of you.

You guys will have to think outside the box a little to guess this one. ;)


Does it have something to do with a new class like Territory or Warrior class? That's "Outside the (Brigade) box".
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Gabe on May 06, 2013, 08:45:52 PM
Does it have something to do with a new class like Territory or Warrior class? That's "Outside the (Brigade) box".

That is outside the box, a term which is pretty open ended. But everything you need to solve the riddle is right here on the forum. I don't expect anyone to pull something out of this air. ;)
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Crashfach2002 on May 06, 2013, 08:55:06 PM
I'm a little disappointed that nobody has picked up on the clues I've left. Maybe they weren't as obvious as I thought. I'll try to spell them out a little more clearly.

The defense in that tin is going to be a theme that's quite foreign to most of you.

You guys will have to think outside the box a little to guess this one. ;)

Sweet we are getting something foreign and outside the box!  We are getting Mexican Pizzas from Taco Bell!!!!    ;D


Aw man. . . wait a second, they are outside the bun.  Sad day!   :'(
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on May 06, 2013, 09:29:48 PM
Does it have something to do with a new class like Territory or Warrior class? That's "Outside the (Brigade) box".

That is outside the box, a term which is pretty open ended. But everything you need to solve the riddle is right here on the forum. I don't expect anyone to pull something out of this air. ;)

Gonna take a shot in the dark here:

(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.wikia.com%2Fredemption%2Fimages%2F8%2F85%2FStone_Cut_without_Hands_-_Prophets.jpg&hash=88ba64a607e8f692f940752295dc021be027fc8e)

I remember hearing something about a "Mountain of God" card that never made it into previous sets.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: MitchRobStew on May 06, 2013, 09:50:56 PM
I'm thinking Gabe is referring to the foreign spearman card from TOtB # 2.  We've already been spoiled the toss ability so that would make sense.  Especially since I doubt it would be introduced in the starters. 

http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/new-card-ideas/totb-2/msg479864/#msg479864 (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/new-card-ideas/totb-2/msg479864/#msg479864)
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on May 06, 2013, 10:01:50 PM
Ooooh, I do remember hearing something about a Foreign Spearman from my inside source recently...

I think you may be right with that guess.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Gabe on May 06, 2013, 10:34:47 PM
Well done, Mitch!

Obviously we won't see that exact version. In testing we felt it was different enough we were concerned that we might miss something. The play testers agreed that we should get some community feedback. Your feedback made it better! Soon you'll get to see the final version.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: KingLeo on May 06, 2013, 10:52:53 PM
I'm a little disappointed that nobody has picked up on the clues I've left. Maybe they weren't as obvious as I thought. I'll try to spell them out a little more clearly.

The defense in that tin is going to be a theme that's quite foreign to most of you.

You guys will have to think outside the box a little to guess this one. ;)

I'm thinking Gabe is referring to the foreign spearman card from TOtB # 2.  We've already been spoiled the toss ability so that would make sense.  Especially since I doubt it would be introduced in the starters. 

http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/new-card-ideas/totb-2/msg479864/#msg479864 (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/new-card-ideas/totb-2/msg479864/#msg479864)

Connecting dots on one post figured that'd be helpful!
And I want to say thank you with all my heart and on behalf of my little play group of...... two  :laugh: haha, for all the spoilers and excitement after two years.

Special thanks from player to Rob Anderson for all the work, for even little to his profit from what I understand-keeps the game going, for doing this ministry, for putting up with all of us players nagging day and night (not accusing any one I accuse myself XD), for all that you've done to help keep this game alive.

Thank you for all you have done Rob and I will pray for blessings on you!

I hope others join in this thank you :) 

Thanks,
KingLeo 8)
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Minion of Jesus on May 07, 2013, 07:58:17 AM
I'm thinking Gabe is referring to the foreign spearman card from TOtB # 2.  We've already been spoiled the toss ability so that would make sense.  Especially since I doubt it would be introduced in the starters. 

http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/new-card-ideas/totb-2/msg479864/#msg479864 (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/new-card-ideas/totb-2/msg479864/#msg479864)

Whoa. I remember that card. I can't wait to see the starter deck version.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Minion of Jesus on May 07, 2013, 08:35:03 AM
I looked at the other thread. Does this mean there will be a bunch of different brigaded Spearmen in the deck (or tin) or a single one with a legion-like ability, or just one all by himself?
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Bryon on May 07, 2013, 01:07:06 PM
Foreign Spearman is a Tin card.  And it is not the only 'Foreign' EC in the tin.  Both of these splashable evil characters do something unique in order to counter common offensive strategies.  Foreign Spearman helps against little characters like Benjamin and Joseph, who are not as effective if they can't play their CBN enhancements.

I've wanted to put the Foreign Spearman idea into the game for a while now, and I'm very glad that we worked out a way for it to work, and to release it now rather than later.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Minion of Jesus on May 07, 2013, 01:39:19 PM
Foreign Spearman is a Tin card.  And it is not the only 'Foreign' EC in the tin.  Both of these splashable evil characters do something unique in order to counter common offensive strategies.  Foreign Spearman helps against little characters like Benjamin and Joseph, who are not as effective if they can't play their CBN enhancements.

I've wanted to put the Foreign Spearman idea into the game for a while now, and I'm very glad that we worked out a way for it to work, and to release it now rather than later.

Awesome. I'd guess the other one would either combat speed or banding.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: JSB23 on May 07, 2013, 02:26:28 PM
Or both...
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Minion of Jesus on May 07, 2013, 02:58:42 PM
Or both...

Even better.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: browarod on May 07, 2013, 07:10:27 PM
I doubt it would combat speed, at least not directly, there's already Golden Cherubim for that.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Minion of Jesus on May 07, 2013, 07:22:54 PM
True. Let's kill banding then.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Gabe on May 07, 2013, 07:48:50 PM
When you guys say "counter speed" is it safe for me to assume that you mean card drawing?

That would be quite a powerful card if it countered banding and card drawing at the same time... ::)
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on May 07, 2013, 11:25:12 PM
When you guys say "counter speed" is it safe for me to assume that you mean card drawing?

That would be quite a powerful card if it countered banding and card drawing at the same time... ::)

I wonder just how powerful cards would be if they did both banding and drawing at the same time...

Oh. (http://redemption.wikia.com/wiki/Ishmaiah_the_Gibeonite_(RA2))
Wait. (http://redemption.wikia.com/wiki/Samuel_(RA2))
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Master KChief on May 08, 2013, 04:02:05 AM
Samuel over Oak? Ok.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on May 08, 2013, 08:02:12 AM
Samuel over Oak? Ok.

I almost said oak, but  that is an exchange, not a true band.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Arrthoa on May 08, 2013, 09:50:17 AM
Would Foreign Spearman be able to use cards that say "If used by this civilization, you may do XYZ"?
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: browarod on May 08, 2013, 10:21:06 AM
Would Foreign Spearman be able to use cards that say "If used by this civilization, you may do XYZ"?
Depends on how they do it. I created a special identifier that could accomplish that, but it's only an idea on some of my custom cards right now. It's possible the PTB came up with something similar, though.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Arrthoa on May 08, 2013, 10:24:08 AM
If they did that would be great
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Bryon on May 08, 2013, 10:26:26 AM
Would Foreign Spearman be able to use cards that say "If used by this civilization, you may do XYZ"?
When enhancements are tossed, you don't read their special abilities.  You only care about the first number in the icon box.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Scoobug on May 08, 2013, 11:13:19 AM
Do we have any idea when the starter decks will be available on Cactus' website?
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Gabe on May 08, 2013, 11:37:53 PM
Do we have any idea when the starter decks will be available on Cactus' website?

I don't think an official date has been announced. The last unofficial date I heard was July 1st.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Isildur on May 08, 2013, 11:44:54 PM
Would Foreign Spearman be able to use cards that say "If used by this civilization, you may do XYZ"?
When enhancements are tossed, you don't read their special abilities.  You only care about the first number in the icon box.
Even though the card has not been revealed yet... could you in "theory" get a name on name toss bonus thing on the first number?
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Gabe on May 08, 2013, 11:52:12 PM
Even though the card has not been revealed yet... could you in "theory" get a name on name toss bonus thing on the first number?

Quote from: REG
A toss ability allows a player to play an enhancement in a different way then usual; instead of activating the numbers or special
abilities of the enhancement, the enhancement is discarded to decrease an opposing character by X/X (where X is the strength
of the discarded enhancement).

It's my understanding that an enhancement has to be in battle on the character to get NoN. If it's tossed, the enhancement is in the discard pile so NoN would not apply.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Jmbeers on May 09, 2013, 12:53:43 AM
Any call on these being played at Nats?

I personally hope that they can't be used but that a special exception could be made for sealed.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: ChristianSoldier on May 09, 2013, 03:28:19 AM
Any call on these being played at Nats?

I personally hope that they can't be used but that a special exception could be made for sealed.

I actually am hoping the same thing. Nationals is a little close to the release for them to be playable, except in sealed.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Red on May 09, 2013, 09:15:15 AM
Any call on these being played at Nats?

I personally hope that they can't be used but that a special exception could be made for sealed.

I actually am hoping the same thing. Nationals is a little close to the release for them to be playable, except in sealed.
A month is plenty of time. MTG's pro tours(which are larger with more stakes than our nationals) happen two weeks after a set comes out. This rediculously boring stale meta needs new cards by nationals.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Jmbeers on May 09, 2013, 09:30:49 AM
And Magic is profit fueled and focused. Redemption is player focused and hopefully won't force a massive card but right befor Nats amongst the players who wish to be competitive.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Red on May 09, 2013, 10:53:48 AM
And Magic is profit fueled and focused. Redemption is player focused and hopefully won't force a massive card but right befor Nats amongst the players who wish to be competitive.
Redemption has done it before. Back before we shifted Nationals to august from october Nationals happened after a set released. Magic also seems pretty Player focused. $40,000? Seems they care about taking care of the bills of a pro tour winner. Dannnnng
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Gabe on May 09, 2013, 12:08:09 PM
I'm pretty sure Rob intends to make these cards legal shortly after their release. That's part of the catalyst for him to allow the early release on RTS. It gives players a chance to get familiar with the new cards and then acquire the new cards when they become available. Most (if not all) of the elders agree with and support that. I expect the new starter and tin cards to be legal at Nationals.

Don't take that as official but that is what I believe is happening.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Jmbeers on May 09, 2013, 12:45:35 PM
Most of the players using RTS are top teir players already and there are some that can't get acess to it for a series if reasons.

I know personally if they are allowed at Nats I will not be able to use the cards at all before then. I also can barely afford the trip to Nats and adding a 30+ filler charge for the new set will be hard for me to swing.

Still ill get behind whatever decision the elders make.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Chris on May 09, 2013, 01:25:27 PM
Most of the players using RTS are top teir players already and there are some that can't get acess to it for a series if reasons.

I anticipate that, once the cards are released on RTS, a list will show up on here within a few hours, so everyone will have access to the cards.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Ken4Christ4ever on May 09, 2013, 01:28:31 PM
We'll also have them up on Three Lions Gaming shortly thereafter. I already have all the revealed cards up there. :)
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: jbeers285 on May 09, 2013, 01:54:46 PM
Most of the players using RTS are top teir players already and there are some that can't get acess to it for a series if reasons.

I anticipate that, once the cards are released on RTS, a list will show up on here within a few hours, so everyone will have access to the cards.

Agreed but a list and playing with cards are very different things.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Chris on May 09, 2013, 01:58:10 PM
Most of the players using RTS are top teir players already and there are some that can't get acess to it for a series if reasons.

I anticipate that, once the cards are released on RTS, a list will show up on here within a few hours, so everyone will have access to the cards.

Agreed but a list and playing with cards are very different things.

Some of the best players don't play on RTS, including Martin, the previous Nats champion. Matt Stupenski is another name off the top of my head who is probably top 10, but doesn't even have an online account (or if he does he never uses it).
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: jbeers285 on May 09, 2013, 02:00:36 PM
This may be true but you can't tell me that they will be at no disadvantage to top tier players who do get a chance with cards prior to the in hand experience.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: KingLeo on May 09, 2013, 02:01:40 PM
Connor Magras 4th last Nats doesn't even have a boards account ;)

Thanks,
KingLeo
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: soul seeker on May 09, 2013, 02:02:56 PM
Some of the best players don't play on RTS, including Martin, the previous Nats champion. Matt Stupenski is another name off the top of my head who is probably top 10, but doesn't even have an online account (or if he does he never uses it).


Matt is on here (and used to play RTS)...his board name is   Redemptioncousin.  I think he posted just the other day.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: jbeers285 on May 09, 2013, 02:03:46 PM
Connor Magras 4th last Nats doesn't even have a boards account ;)

Thanks,
KingLeo

Doesn't change my argument at all and there was no new set last year to deal with. I contend he wouldn't have been as likely to have that success under these pending conditions
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: redemptioncousin on May 09, 2013, 02:27:57 PM
Hey yo! :D
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: lp670sv on May 09, 2013, 02:46:17 PM
RTS players have always had an advantage over non-RTS players. They can practice with any deck combination they want without having to own the cards, against other top players, at any time.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Mageduckey on May 09, 2013, 03:05:56 PM
Most of the players using RTS are top teir players already and there are some that can't get acess to it for a series if reasons.

I anticipate that, once the cards are released on RTS, a list will show up on here within a few hours, so everyone will have access to the cards.

Additionally, I plan on helping Lambo add all the new cards to the wiki shortly after they are posted on RTS.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on May 09, 2013, 03:30:27 PM
Most of the players using RTS are top teir players already and there are some that can't get acess to it for a series if reasons.

I anticipate that, once the cards are released on RTS, a list will show up on here within a few hours, so everyone will have access to the cards.

Additionally, I plan on helping Lambo add all the new cards to the wiki shortly after they are posted on RTS.

Actually, I was going to do that myself. It will only be 110 cards combined, and I already have a good system set up after adding 600-some missing cards previously. Shouldn't take me too long once I get all the info organized.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Mageduckey on May 09, 2013, 04:08:06 PM
Well then, I guess I'll just sit back and play with the cards on RTS. ::)
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Chris on May 09, 2013, 04:15:16 PM
This may be true but you can't tell me that they will be at no disadvantage to top tier players who do get a chance with cards prior to the in hand experience.

That's true regardless of the circumstances though. I may get a chance to play more games with my deck than someone who doesn't have RTS, but that's going to be the case every single year.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: lightningninja on May 09, 2013, 04:57:22 PM
It's a starter deck, so I wouldn't imagine major revisions would be necessary when you get to nationals. And the few cards in your deck that would change can be easily proxied to practice with until the tournament.  :)
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Drrek on May 09, 2013, 05:00:45 PM
It's a starter deck, so I wouldn't imagine major revisions would be necessary when you get to nationals. And the few cards in your deck that would change can be easily proxied to practice with until the tournament.  :)

Maybe the starters won't change all that much (though I still suspect they will mix up the meta at least a bit), but the cards from the tin so far look pretty game-changing to me.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Gabe on May 09, 2013, 05:25:24 PM
Most of the players using RTS are top teir players already and there are some that can't get acess to it for a series if reasons.

I have a really hard time buying the idea that very many players can't get access to RTS. All it takes is a computer and there are very few people that don't have one of those these days. Westy even figured out how to make RTS work on a Mac and made it available to the public so that's no longer an excuse. There are some technical hurdles to jump through for less computer savvy people, but we have experienced users who are willing to assist new people. It's not a complex program so if the desire is there it will be figured out. If someone isn't using RTS I venture to say that in most instances that is by choice.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: TimMierz on May 10, 2013, 04:43:23 PM
More preview images!

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/960015_10151493143644900_1022502233_n.jpg)

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/283690_10151493144744900_1893437955_n.jpg)

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/935286_10151493144954900_1752286674_n.jpg)

Ashtaroth Worship looks mighty interesting! And it looks like Boulden finally comes out as the victor of the Ashtaroth Wars of 1996.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: browarod on May 10, 2013, 04:47:32 PM
Dang it, you beat me to it by like 3 minutes. :P

I like these cards new cards.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on May 10, 2013, 04:53:25 PM
I've wanted a card like Ashtaroth Worship for a WHILE. With so much recur in the game, it's nice to just clean out their entire discard pile during your prep phase.

Absolutely going in most of my decks.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: ChristianSoldier on May 10, 2013, 04:54:14 PM
Gathering Angel is decent. Ashtaroth Worship looks like a powered up version of Murmuring (The multi colored evil enhancement that removes a discard pile from the game), which could be really powerful against Isaiah and a few other offenses (and some defenses). Angelic Guidance could get me to play a mono-silver offense again.

I think it's looking like an interesting starter deck so far.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Jmbeers on May 10, 2013, 04:59:33 PM
I'm really not a fan of Angelic Guidance, Aka (W3 on steroids).

I do like the Evil Enhancement. Think it's a good card for the game.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on May 10, 2013, 05:32:40 PM
Also, what's up with the wording on Ashtaroth worship?

Couldn't it have just said: "Discard a good enhancement or remove all cards in a discard pile from the game."
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: browarod on May 10, 2013, 06:27:27 PM
Also, what's up with the wording on Ashtaroth worship?

Couldn't it have just said: "Discard a good enhancement or remove all cards in a discard pile from the game."
I'm guessing since "remove from the game" is the actual ability they wanted to keep the entire wording of it in one phrase, rather than splitting it before and after the target.

I totally agree with you (because it's far more fluid-sounding that way) but from a "we're teaching people how to play the game with these decks" point of view, I can see where the actual wording would be enticing.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: DDiceRC on May 10, 2013, 07:19:19 PM
And Magic is profit fueled and focused. Redemption is player focused and hopefully won't force a massive card but right befor Nats amongst the players who wish to be competitive.
Redemption is already walking down the MtG tournament trail with the top cut T1 at Nationals. Adding a few cards won't be any more jarring than that. What it will do is make the "top players" have to think outside their current box while prepping for Nats, which shouldn't be too hard for them.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Jmbeers on May 10, 2013, 07:50:10 PM
Top Cut has been something the players have argued for for quite some time now.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Redoubter on May 10, 2013, 08:59:55 PM
Okay, I'm concerned about Ashtaroth Worship...and I'm very surprised everyone likes it.  It is now very easy to wipe a player of all offense, regardless of what they are playing.  I would like it better if it did not remove heroes, but removing everything in discard...as a territory class?  That's going to break down many of the offenses out there.  I know that we want to slow certain ones down, but this is indiscriminate and total.  More time-outs coming, folks.

Guidance is also not a card I'm a fan of so far.  Looking at hand pre-battle is an amazingly powerful ability, and doing so with a TC, then being able to search out a silver card, not just enhancement?  This only boosts decks that run multiple angel abuse (like, say, AUtO).
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Warrior_Monk on May 10, 2013, 09:03:06 PM
Ashtaroth Worship is absurd. I'm not sure if I love it or hate it.

I think the other two are fine, but yeah, Guidance is good. I feel like a lot of people won't find space for it though.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Drrek on May 10, 2013, 09:30:25 PM
I think the other two are fine, but yeah, Guidance is good. I feel like a lot of people won't find space for it though.

If you can find space for WWW, you can find room for guidance.  They are almost the same card, except that Guidance isn't limited to searching for characters, and it doesn't protect them from dominants (but if you want the protection from dominants, just search for WWW with guidance, then play WWW to get the character you want).
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: lightningninja on May 10, 2013, 11:42:36 PM
Guidance is the new boost to FBTN.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: RTSmaniac on May 10, 2013, 11:48:30 PM
Angelic Guidance: easier In the Clouds abuse in T2 which I'm looking foward to.

Ash Worship: prob wont see play in T1 as much as T2 with Abe's Kid abuse. I love when my opponent has no GE to recur when I play that card.

Gathering Angel: Seems more of a T2 card as well. Maybe a new addition to Kirks Gates of Hell/Heal deck?
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: christiangamer25 on May 10, 2013, 11:53:08 PM
bah clift hush don't go giving kirk ideas lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Gabe on May 15, 2013, 12:18:13 AM
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/97804213/Legion%20of%20Angels.png)
This is such a kiddie card. I love it!
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Isildur on May 15, 2013, 12:21:25 AM
Ugh that art....
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Gabe on May 15, 2013, 12:25:48 AM
There are some fun combos with this guy. Especially if he's wearing Horses.

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/97804213/Emperor%20Tiberius.png)
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on May 15, 2013, 12:27:44 AM
<3 Legion of Angels.

One of the rare cases where having no SA is a GREAT thing.  ;D
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: TimMierz on May 15, 2013, 12:29:31 AM
There are some fun combos with this guy. Especially if he's wearing Horses.

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/97804213/Emperor%20Tiberius.png)

Always a fan of new Roman stuff, and this has some SRS power.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Gabe on May 15, 2013, 12:31:39 AM
I have a feeling RTSManiac or Captain Kirk will find a way to break this one.

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/97804213/To%20Each%20His%20Own.png)
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Noah on May 15, 2013, 12:34:25 AM
I have a feeling RTSManiac or Captain Kirk will find a way to break this one.

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/97804213/To%20Each%20His%20Own.png)

That's to good to be true.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Gabe on May 15, 2013, 12:42:37 AM
I couldn't decide between good and evil so how about this?

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/97804213/King%20Abijam.png)
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Drrek on May 15, 2013, 12:45:27 AM
I couldn't decide between good and evil so how about this?

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/97804213/King%20Abijam.png)

Fun.  I've wanted cards that represent people who did both good and evil for a while now.  I hope we can get a Saul card like this in the future.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: JonathanW on May 15, 2013, 12:47:25 AM
I have a feeling RTSManiac or Captain Kirk will find a way to break this one.

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/97804213/To%20Each%20His%20Own.png)

That's to good to be true.

yup.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Isildur on May 15, 2013, 01:16:58 AM
You know im not really sure how much I like the tin cards there is something really creepy about them!

They just seem kind of... power.... creepy.....
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: drb1200 on May 15, 2013, 01:17:42 AM
The rotated evil character icon is totally weirding me out
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Korunks on May 15, 2013, 05:43:27 AM
Gabe is there a place we can find all of these full size card images?
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Ken4Christ4ever on May 15, 2013, 07:42:09 AM
I have them on Three Lions Gaming. :)
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Korunks on May 15, 2013, 08:33:09 AM
I have them on Three Lions Gaming. :)

But the images on your site are not full size.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Ken4Christ4ever on May 15, 2013, 08:46:45 AM
On the bottom of all the store pages, there is a link to the full-size images in .zip files: http://www.threelionsgaming.com/images20948583%26kjfi01.html (http://www.threelionsgaming.com/images20948583%26kjfi01.html). Just fill out the form so that I know who is accessing them, and you'll get to the list of card sets!
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Korunks on May 15, 2013, 09:24:14 AM
On the bottom of all the store pages, there is a link to the full-size images in .zip files: http://www.threelionsgaming.com/images20948583%26kjfi01.html (http://www.threelionsgaming.com/images20948583%26kjfi01.html). Just fill out the form so that I know who is accessing them, and you'll get to the list of card sets!

I stand corrected, thank you Ken! :)
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: browarod on May 15, 2013, 09:50:16 AM
After a quick review of the new cards, my first thought is: Holy negates Batman!

So many negate lasts in those decks, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

One thing I also did notice was that, at least in the I/J decks, there wasn't much (if any) CBP/I/N which is a welcome change. It makes sense given all the negates in the decks (which makes the battle phase more about negating and discarding opponent's enhancements to win by numbers than to stack your own enhancements to win by numbers) but it's still a sight for sore eyes.

I can't wait to see the chain of negate enhancements that could happen when these decks face each other. "I withdraw you." "Well I negate that." "Well I negate your negate" "And I negate your negate negating my negate" "And I negate your negate negating my negate negating your negate" "I play Christian Martyr." "Aww......"
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Ironica on May 15, 2013, 10:21:06 AM
I can't wait to see the chain of negate enhancements that could happen when these decks face each other. "I withdraw you." "Well I negate that." "Well I negate your negate" "And I negate your negate negating my negate" "And I negate your negate negating my negate negating your negate" "I play Christian Martyr." "Aww......"

I would play AOTL right after that just to spite them :).
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Mr. Tumnus on May 15, 2013, 10:25:56 AM
Looks good.
What is the definition of toss?
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: lightningninja on May 15, 2013, 02:10:44 PM
I was REALLLLLY hoping to see original Angel of the Lord artwork with the new design.  :'( It's a sad day today... I will definitely buy this just to play around with it. Looks super fun. =)

EDIT: Philistines and Angels  ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Westok Kiok on May 15, 2013, 03:12:01 PM
I was really glad to see more black Philistines. I have some more new Philly ideas I was planning to put on here as well.  :)
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Minion of Jesus on May 15, 2013, 04:25:29 PM
I've liked Philly's ever since they came out in FooF set VI. Now, they are getting stronger...
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: megamanlan on May 15, 2013, 09:48:41 PM
I can't wait till these are out! Beware my upgraded Angel deck!!! MUHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Angels!

Now we just need some more Cherubim's for T1... I don't think the Guidance Angel would really look great to me... Maybe in a splash deck but I'd still run Chariot of Fire and W3 over that. LOL at the WC No-effect Angel. I still want an updated Servant Angel with Warrior Class. I LOVE GUIDANCE!!! Finally! A card that makes my Micheal combo even faster to pull!!!!!!

YEA!!! A new Emperor that doesn't suck!!!! (Eh... Sorry Pilate but I want an effect that I can use more then once a game plus you don't even use Rome...) I think what I've really wanted is finally happening... A competent Mono-Angel setup might be coming!!!!!! I so cannot wait for the new set to come out!!!
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Sadness on May 15, 2013, 10:04:44 PM
Gabe,
Here's to hoping that Cactusgamedesign releases King Manasseh in purple/pale green/orange. I'd so love to see that. I like the Legion of Angels card. Just wish that comic book series had actually come out. Thanks for all the updates.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Drrek on May 15, 2013, 10:06:46 PM
Gabe,
Here's to hoping that Cactusgamedesign releases King Manasseh in purple/pale green/orange. I'd so love to see that. I like the Legion of Angels card. Just wish that comic book series had actually come out. Thanks for all the updates.

Manasseh wouldn't be orange.  The only Orange human character in the game is Damsel (and that's because she was possessed by a demon).  He would be Purple/pale green/brown.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: megamanlan on May 16, 2013, 04:05:54 PM
Gabe,
Here's to hoping that Cactusgamedesign releases King Manasseh in purple/pale green/orange. I'd so love to see that. I like the Legion of Angels card. Just wish that comic book series had actually come out. Thanks for all the updates.

Manasseh wouldn't be orange.  The only Orange human character in the game is Damsel (and that's because she was possessed by a demon).  He would be Purple/pale green/brown.

I agree. But I think that any Manny may just end up worse then the current one without becoming insanely powerful.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: TheJaylor on May 16, 2013, 05:05:25 PM
Looks good.
What is the definition of toss?
From the REG

Quote
General Description
A toss ability allows a player to discard an enhancement to decrease an opposing character in battle.
How to Play
A toss ability allows a player to play an enhancement in a different way than usual; instead of activating the numbers or special
abilities of the enhancement, the enhancement is discarded to decrease an opposing character by X/X (where X is the strength
of the discarded enhancement).
Default Conditions
 Enhancements disards to the toss ability must come from hand.
 The strength of the discarded enhancement is determined by the face valye of the card.
 Targets for the decrease must be in battle and controlled by opponent.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: megamanlan on May 17, 2013, 08:07:34 AM
Personally I'd like toss to be just a new term to shorten 'Discard from hand' down then the actual Decrease ability would be an effect. But that's just me.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: sepjazzwarrior on May 17, 2013, 09:24:53 AM
correct me if im wrong, but toss looks like a permanent decrease to me, which doesnt bode well for using foreign spearman for more than 1-2 blocks, especially with all of these big enhancements that just got released
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Professoralstad on May 17, 2013, 10:27:55 AM
correct me if im wrong, but toss looks like a permanent decrease to me, which doesnt bode well for using foreign spearman for more than 1-2 blocks, especially with all of these big enhancements that just got released

He's not meant to be too effective against big Heroes, he was designed to be most effective against small, initiative Heroes with powerful battle winners (such as Ben and Joe). And don't forget there were a couple of new spears released, which makes him deadly vs. Heroes of */5 or less.

Lastly, there are also ways to increase his toughness. I'm thinking Worship of Milcom might come back in style...
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: TimMierz on May 17, 2013, 12:10:06 PM
Lastly, there are also ways to increase his toughness. I'm thinking Worship of Milcom might come back in style...

I always had a soft spot for Molten Calf Worship. I know, not as efficient as Worship of Milcom, but I have an inexplicable attachment to MCW.

I guess there are the site guard cards like Guards and Prison Guards, but it's just not the same.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: TheHobbit13 on May 17, 2013, 01:02:11 PM
All you have to do with Foreign Spearman is set him aside with Covenant with Death or something and your opponent basically cannot play Angel of the Lord or Grapes of Wrath the whole game if they want to win.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Bryon on May 17, 2013, 01:20:22 PM
All you have to do with Foreign Spearman is set him aside with Covenant with Death or something and your opponent basically cannot play Angel of the Lord or Grapes of Wrath the whole game if they want to win.
Doesn't anyone use Ark of the Covenant anymore?
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: wyatt_marcum on May 17, 2013, 01:25:03 PM
what is foreign spearsmen considered? is he the same as foreign wives, or everything, or what?
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Gabe on May 17, 2013, 01:28:15 PM
Doesn't anyone use Ark of the Covenant anymore?

I started using it again occasionally after the dom cap, since I don't always find room for DoN.

what is foreign spearsmen considered? is he the same as foreign wives, or everything, or what?

He's not from any specific culture.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Bryon on May 17, 2013, 01:37:25 PM
Doesn't anyone use Ark of the Covenant anymore?

I started using it again occasionally after the dom cap, since I don't always find room for DoN.

Hmmm.  Either you thought I was talking about Captured Ark, or else you typed DoN instead of AotL.

Or else the depth of your strategy is way too deep for me to comprehend.  :)
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Gabe on May 17, 2013, 02:10:27 PM
Hmmm.  Either you thought I was talking about Captured Ark, or else you typed DoN instead of AotL.

Or else the depth of your strategy is way too deep for me to comprehend.  :)

Ha! I read Captured Ark, even though that's not what it said. I do have Ark of the Covenant in one deck I use, but it's a very abnormal deck. I can't recall the last time I saw an opponent use it.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Alex_Olijar on May 17, 2013, 02:11:37 PM
Artifacts are too good to waste them on something like Ark of the Covenant
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: drb1200 on May 17, 2013, 08:24:27 PM
Twice Afflicted DEFINITELY wins my vote for worst art in the set.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: DDiceRC on May 17, 2013, 10:36:47 PM
Twice Afflicted DEFINITELY wins my vote for worst art in the set.
But it's very much in style for Bosch.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Mageduckey on May 19, 2013, 12:52:09 AM
And don't forget there were a couple of new spears released, which makes him deadly vs. Heroes of */5 or less.


Quote from: REG
Enhancements disarded to the toss ability must come from hand.

The current default conditions for Toss in the REG do not permit any WC enhancement from being tossed.  This causes a problem, though, because a WC enhancement is played when it enters battle.  So Spearman forces the enhancement to be tossed, but it can't because of a conflicting game rule.

Is this one of those times when a special ability overrides a game rule?  Do good WC enhancements in battle before FS enters get tossed upon FS entering/activating?  What about cards played pre-block (essentially the same thing) - does the instead in effect negate/cancel the enhancement's ability?
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: browarod on May 19, 2013, 06:59:39 PM
Insteads only work if they're in play when the thing they instead happens. Therefore, if a Hero is wielding a weapon then FS can't toss that weapon because the condition (being played) was met before FS's instead was activated. It's like activating RBD after the opponent already played Mayhem. They don't retroactively reveal/discard the cards drawn.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Bryon on May 20, 2013, 10:22:42 AM
Aren't weapons played twice?  I seem to remember that weapons are considered played outside of battle, then also considered played as they enter battle.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Drrek on May 20, 2013, 10:26:07 AM
Aren't weapons played twice?  I seem to remember that weapons are considered played outside of battle, then also considered played as they enter battle.

Weapons (along with other enhancements) are only considered played when being activated for their ability.  They are not played when they are placed on characters, only when that character enters battle, and the weapon's special ability activates.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Professoralstad on May 20, 2013, 10:31:57 AM
And don't forget there were a couple of new spears released, which makes him deadly vs. Heroes of */5 or less.


Quote from: REG
Enhancements disarded to the toss ability must come from hand.

The current default conditions for Toss in the REG do not permit any WC enhancement from being tossed.  This causes a problem, though, because a WC enhancement is played when it enters battle.  So Spearman forces the enhancement to be tossed, but it can't because of a conflicting game rule.

Is this one of those times when a special ability overrides a game rule?  Do good WC enhancements in battle before FS enters get tossed upon FS entering/activating?  What about cards played pre-block (essentially the same thing) - does the instead in effect negate/cancel the enhancement's ability?

What you posted is simply the Default Condition--the default condition for all enhancements is that they are played from hand, but WC enhancements override the default as they always have.

Insteads only work if they're in play when the thing they instead happens. Therefore, if a Hero is wielding a weapon then FS can't toss that weapon because the condition (being played) was met before FS's instead was activated. It's like activating RBD after the opponent already played Mayhem. They don't retroactively reveal/discard the cards drawn.

This I agree with.

Aren't weapons played twice?  I seem to remember that weapons are considered played outside of battle, then also considered played as they enter battle.

That used to be the case, but it was changed awhile ago:

Quote from: REG>Glossary>Play
-You play an enhancement by attempting to activate its special ability (or numbers in battle)
-You play a character or multicolor site by putting it in your territory or your side of the battle.
-You play any other card type by putting it face up on the playing surface from hand, deck, or discard pile due to your special ability or game action, except when you discard a card from hand.

Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Bryon on May 20, 2013, 06:40:36 PM
For some reason I read browarod's post as

"if FS is wielding a weapon then FS can't toss that weapon because the condition (being played) was met before FS's instead was activated."

Since he said "hero" rather than "FS" I completely agree with his statement.

I was just trying to clarify that FS tosses a weapon that is on him when he enters battle, since that weapon is played at that point, not before FS's ability activates.

Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: sepjazzwarrior on May 20, 2013, 09:40:23 PM
heres something i just realized, is there some reason there arent any sites or artifacts in the new starters?
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Alex_Olijar on May 20, 2013, 10:02:24 PM
heres something i just realized, is there some reason there arent any sites or artifacts in the new starters?

it's simpler without them
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: sepjazzwarrior on May 20, 2013, 10:13:18 PM
its also simpler without weapons and territory class enhancements but those are in there in spades
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Red Dragon Thorn on May 20, 2013, 10:23:18 PM
Right - But the rulebook includes provisions to simply ignore those identifiers and play them as normal enhancements for teaching purposes.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Chris on May 20, 2013, 10:24:16 PM
its also simpler without weapons and territory class enhancements but those are in there in spades

What's easier to explain, that an emblem means you can play an enhancement out of battle (or that the one puzzle piece goes with the other puzzle piece) or the nuances of how artifacts work? Sites I'm neutral too, though if you have sites, you have to build in site access too.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: ChristianSoldier on May 21, 2013, 02:46:23 AM
I agree that it is good that the starter decks are simple, but aren't we just pushing the complexity problem back a step? Yes, I agree that it is far easier to learn a game while you are playing than have to learn a bunch of stuff before you start, but we could just be pushing the problem back a step.

Here is what I'm concerned could happen:
A person sees some starter decks (or someone introduces them to the game and teaches with this super simple cards) and they have a good time. Then once they decide they want to start modifying decks they are hit with 3 new card types they've never seen before (5 if you count covenants and curses as separate from enhancements and artifacts), multi alignment cards, complex abilities and a fairly difficult rules system to figure out (I've been playing this game for something like 8 years, I am a very experienced gamer (when it comes to games in general), I try to keep up with rulings and I am a rules lawyer)  and essentially give up at the game.

Now I understand that not everything is fixable in a way that everyone will be happy about, and I do understand that if the game is easy to get started and fun at that level then it is better than too complicated or unfun to play. I guess I'm basically saying that I don't know if the new starter decks are going to be enough to make the game accessible to new players if they aren't followed up by a good expansion that both is fun, useful, relatively inexpensive (hopefully it won't be more Tins, or at least not only tins) and has controlled complexity (well worded cards and taking a page from Magic's book, putting the more complex cards at higher rarities if possible (as in if there are rarities)).

At least those are thoughts I have on where Redemption is, there is an attempt to make the game more accessible to new players, but I think that Redemption needs to continue to move in that direction (and I do think that is the intention of the people doing the designing)
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: TimMierz on May 21, 2013, 09:06:04 AM
I agree that it is good that the starter decks are simple, but aren't we just pushing the complexity problem back a step? Yes, I agree that it is far easier to learn a game while you are playing than have to learn a bunch of stuff before you start, but we could just be pushing the problem back a step.

Here is what I'm concerned could happen:
A person sees some starter decks (or someone introduces them to the game and teaches with this super simple cards) and they have a good time. Then once they decide they want to start modifying decks they are hit with 3 new card types they've never seen before (5 if you count covenants and curses as separate from enhancements and artifacts), multi alignment cards, complex abilities and a fairly difficult rules system to figure out (I've been playing this game for something like 8 years, I am a very experienced gamer (when it comes to games in general), I try to keep up with rulings and I am a rules lawyer)  and essentially give up at the game.

Whereas, what happens with things like G and H deck, you give it to someone, and they have NO IDEA what's going on, and they give up right then. Starter decks SHOULD be more simple than the rest of the game - as long they still provide an interesting experience, of course. Artifacts and sites aren't too tough to figure out the basics of, and they'll be in the rulebook for new players to learn about. Concepts like ignore, immune, interrupt the battle, and cannot be prevented (all of which are in G&H but not I&J) are the type to make people give up on the game before they even start, but someone with a few games under their belt should have an easier time.

As long as they don't discover Tartaros.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on May 21, 2013, 09:37:08 AM
As long as they don't discover Tartaros.

Or Redirects.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Prof Underwood on May 21, 2013, 01:10:03 PM
a good expansion that both is fun, useful, relatively inexpensive ...and has controlled complexity (well worded cards and ...putting the more complex cards at higher rarities
This is a really interesting idea that I've never thought about before.  I like the plan of making cards more rare in a booster pack based more on the complexity of the card rather than the power of the card.  Thanks for stirring this thought.
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: Master Q on May 21, 2013, 01:56:45 PM
As long as they don't discover Tartaros.

Or Redirects.

Or ANB...
Title: Re: New Set Card Previews!!!!
Post by: ChristianSoldier on May 21, 2013, 06:32:44 PM
a good expansion that both is fun, useful, relatively inexpensive ...and has controlled complexity (well worded cards and ...putting the more complex cards at higher rarities
This is a really interesting idea that I've never thought about before.  I like the plan of making cards more rare in a booster pack based more on the complexity of the card rather than the power of the card.  Thanks for stirring this thought.

Here's a good explanation why:
You have two target audiences you have to think about (it is a bit more complicated than that, but bear with me) The experienced players that know the game, that are either competitive or at the very least should have a good understanding of the game and how cards work, they also tend to have access to most of the cards in the game. You also have the inexperienced players that generally don't have a good understanding of the game yet, they tend to also have less cards.

The experienced players may get annoyed at things like rarity, but they will generally have access to much more rares than the new player (I'm talking absolute number, not relative number) and the inexperienced players will have mostly commons and building mostly from common cards.

If you put the powerful cards at the higher rarities the experienced players will have access to them, because they'll front the money, and the inexperienced players won't have a very good access to them, since they tend to buy fewer cards and get what they need from trading or good packs. This furthers the power difference between the experienced and inexperienced players, this can also lead to the inexperienced players getting frustrated by not only having to deal with strange concepts and getting beaten by these rare and powerful cards.

Now if instead you put the complex cards at higher rarities you get a very different picture. Newer players will have a much easier access to powerful cards, since there isn't a rarity difference for power (a powerful card could just as easily be a common as an Ultra Rare) however the more complex cards, the ones that inexperienced players will have more difficulty understanding will come up less when they are starting (they might have some, but most of their cards will still be simpler commons).

This allows both the new players having their simple cards, while the older players (in time being players not necessarily actual age) will have their cool yet weird cards that may take a specialized deck that won't be immediately obvious as a good deck to a new player. Of course all of this requires rarity to use, and since we haven't had rarity since the Priests, it may not have much of an impact on the game.
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