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I would be a hypocrite if I did not hold myself to the same standards that I hold others, so I post this publicly.

As a high school teacher, I get paid (woo-hoo!) to correct student behavior and language. This becomes more habit than anything else, so that I remain consistent. I correct students almost every day, so much so that the students start to mimic my phrases. I often hear students in the hallway or at lunch saying things like, "That wasn't very positive" or, "You need to Save Face." These are phrases that I use in class. The students get used to my rules and adjust their vocabulary accordingly. However, my students know the boundaries I have in my classroom because I emphasize them from day one of the school year. They see me correcting other students, so they know it is nothing personal.

JSB did not have that luxury. I responded to a bad word the way I always do, but he didn't know that.

MKC made the comment that sometimes Christians can press too hard and become offensive themselves. If I crossed that line, then I apologize to JSB, MJB, and any others that were offended by my posts. That was not my intent. I was in "teacher mode." Just the sight of the "p" word brought back haunting memories of "the belt." My parents would have made wonderful Egyptian Taskmasters.

I still think that we, as Christians, must be careful of what we say when there is obvious objection. Ephesians 5:4 is the verse I use to limit my own speech. My standards are higher than most, but that is because I am more accountable than most as a teacher who stands in front of hundreds of teenagers each day. Please consider that context before you take anything I say personally, and let me know when I cross the line. I want to be held accountable myself, even by those who are younger than me. The Bible is very clear that I should not "look down on your youth."

if you teach vocab stuff how come your boardname says you're my math teacher?

Quote from: KoalaKingofFortressAlstad on July 13, 2010, 09:36:41 PM

if you teach vocab stuff how come your boardname says you're my math teacher?

Right now I wish he was "YourGrammarTeacher." How hard is it to capitalize the first letter of a sentence?

Way to miss a post. Was that sarcasm really necessary? Did him not capitalizing that letter p... tick you off? 

Basically, it doesn't matter it's not like he's spelling everything wrong, he just didn't capitalize.

I see the exact same issue for which you are expressing concern.  However, I have a suspicion our thoughts on its manifestation might be on opposite sides of the fence.

I forgive you YMT. Send the Buckler to:

DRB
500 Jackson Hall Road
Celebrityville, CA 12345

Yet in numerous posts across multiple threads we see some mature Christians repeatedly proclaiming their right to judge others on the board and then doing so with no apparent thought towards how their behavior may be affecting their brothers and sisters in Christ.

I feel like your judging me

I assume that you are talking about me (and perhaps others) in the statement above, and I wanted to share some of my heart with you about this subject.  I teach at a Christian boarding school full of teenagers who have grown up in environments where there was no accountability.  Their parents (or parent or grandparents or aunts, or whoever raised them) either did not have rules, or did not enforce them.  As a result, they made poor enough choices with their lives that their families decided to send them away to boarding school.

When they arrive, they say the same types of things that I read on the forum often.  They say, "Don't judge me" and "Nobody's perfect" and "That's just a little thing, it doesn't matter".  But these are half-truths that are leading them down a path of destruction.  As their teacher, and as a Christian it is my responsibility to respond with the truth.

The truth is that although we can not judge a person's heart, that we are supposed to judge people's actions, and we are supposed to hold fellow Christians accountable for their actions.  The truth is that although no one (except Jesus) is perfect, that as Christians we are supposed to at least TRY to be perfect even as our Heavenly Father is perfect.  The truth is that although what they are doing wrong may be a little thing, that God wants us to be faithful in the little things so that He can trust us with the bigger things.

I understand that you are concerned that perhaps my coming down on stuff could push people away from salvation.  And please know that I do indeed put "thought towards how their behavior may be affecting their brothers and sisters in Christ."  But I have found in my life that when I avoid confrontation with people because of fear of shaking their faith, that they end up losing their faith in the long run anyway.  But when I take the risk and confront people that often the end result is actually that their faith is stronger.  And although I do try to communicate in a way that will more likely lead to people's growth, I am not responsible for their response, only for being obedient in warning them.  Ezekiel 33:1-6

I hope that this helps you to see where I'm coming from and perhaps why we see this issue differently.  I also hope that as Christian brothers and Redemption friends that we can continue to challenge one another and that "we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds." (Heb 10:24)

In case you didn't get it, YMT is apologizing to you JSB.

MJB and others, I ask you this:  where does accountability come into play?

In my opinion accountability comes into play within the bounds of a serious (and primarily formal) interpersonal relationship between believers. It also is something that should, as a matter of principle, be reserved for matters of sin and not personal preference unless you are invited to comment on those areas.

In the vast number of cases that trouble me and caused me to post I am having a very hard time seeing where either of the criteria I think are essential are being fulfilled. As to the first, I am personally dubious that an internet bulletin board such as this one is (in general) an appropriate venue for true Christian accountability. Beyond that, however, I am seeing "accountability" being offered by people who have no personal relationship to their targets beyond the fact they both participate on these boards.

As to the second part, the current case at hand the initial rebuke occurred solely over the use of a specific word. We have seen other instances arise over questions about a possible trip to Mardi Gras in New Orleans and about whether or not Christians should drink. As presented all of these topics would fall pretty much dead square under the covering of personal preference and Christian liberty.

Then again, we may need a clear definition of legalism before this goes much further.

I go back to the main thing that bothered me about the current case at hand. Legalism is clearly evident in the claim that Romans 14 means, "You must change your behavior because it offends my personal sensibilities."

Soul Seeker, I hope you can see that I have not taken your question lightly. In return I ask you this: What are we to make of the multiple places in Romans 14 where Paul exhorts Christians to not judge other Christians?

You feel that YMT did you wrong, and then when he apologizes, you essentially spit in his face.

RDT, in context it appears that JSB was responding to the post immediately above where Prof Underwood equated his role on this board to his profession as a teacher where that is his job.

Ah, good call then. In that case I take back what I said. It was your first post on the thread so I didn't realize you were replying to Prof U. My apologies.

In my opinion accountability comes into play within the bounds of a serious (and primarily formal) interpersonal relationship between believers. It also is something that should, as a matter of principle, be reserved for matters of sin and not personal preference unless you are invited to comment on those areas.

If those are the only times that you feel a responsibility to hold fellow Christians accountable, then that is your conviction.  Personally, I am convicted to at least try to hold people accountable more often.  Silence is implied acceptance.  And there are a lot of members on this forum who are both young of age and also young in their faith.  Many of these members could easily get trapped in habits that could end up destroying their life if they are not warned to avoid certain behaviors.

You brought up use of alcohol and celebration of Mardi Gras in New Orleans.  It is not a coincidence that two big problems that teenagers have in our country are underage drinking and pornography.  I may not know your son personally very well (other than meeting him once at Nats in OH), and I may not know many of the people who are on this forum very well.  But I still care about them as my Chrsitian brothers/sisters and simply as fellow human beings created in the image of God.  And I care about them enough that I am willing to stand up and warn them against getting sucked into these traps that so many of their peers will succumb to.  And I'm willing to do it despite it making me look like an old fuddy-duddy, and even getting rebuked by other forum members who are naturally trying to defend their son who they love.

You don't have to be someone's parent, pastor, or best-friend to care about them.  I hope that you will someday be able to see my heart, and know that I am not attacking your son to tear him down.  I am actually trying to do the same thing that you are.  I'm trying to help him grow into the man that God wants him to be.  And right now, I see someone who has an attitude that has the potential to get in the way of that.  It would be cruel of me to see that, and (even if I'm wrong) NOT say anything to him.

I'm not allowed to say 'Fuddy-duddy' anymore? You should let Prof U know

Ban!

Oh wait, I can't do that. But, I can recommend. SCHAEF!

...but I took that out as I don't want it to appear that my apology was less than serious.

Using brouhaha already took care of that. How can I take a word that ends with "haha" seriously?

I am also sorry that I didn't respond to your post first.

I just have more time than you since my wife and kids are out of town for a month. 

Your apology is not necessary, but I accept it graciously. Thus endeth the brouhaha.