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[TheJaylor]

Mac < PC with Windows7 + PC = less expensive

[TheKarazyvicePresidentRR]

Yes, Two PCS with windows 7 (assuming we are talking alienware) WOULD be more expensive than a mac.

[Warrior_Monk]

On a side note, I got a free iPod Touch with my Mac.

On another note, I went to Boston with the iPod. While there, it disappeared...

[TheJaylor]

Yes, Two PCS with windows 7 (assuming we are talking alienware) WOULD be more expensive than a mac.

it doesn't cost much to get windows7 with your PC

On a side note, I got a free iPod Touch with my Mac.

On another note, I went to Boston with the iPod. While there, it disappeared...

well it is Boston...of course i went down to Rochester, MN and lost my sleeping bag so....btw if anyone who went to MN State knows who might have that i still want it back

[Warrior_Monk]

MN State was in Austin. I'm pretty sure Scott didn't find anything at the end of it all...

[YourMathTeacher]

On another note, I went to Boston with the iPod. While there, it disappeared...

I have More Than a Feeling that you went to see a Rock and Roll Band somewhere near Cheers. While there, you met a girl named Amanda who asked to borrow your iPod. She told you it was Smokin' hot, but then she disappeared when a crowd surfer bumped into you (you didn't have your hands up).

I'm afraid those things happen to all of us, so if I can give you any Peace of Mind, I'd say Don't Look Back and just "keep moving forward" (Walt Disney's words, not mine). You also may want to stay clear of Boston.

I hear Cape Cod is nice.

[The Schaef]

And then have your computer only last 3 years. Plus, there are so many things you have to purchase for software to give it what the Mac has.

I don't understand what you mean by having a computer last only three years.  I have been buying nothing but replacement parts since 2000; my computer has lasted a decade and shows no signs of needing to be completely replaced any time soon.

And what things do you think I need to purchase software for, to get the functionality I want?

[browarod]

And what things do you think I need to purchase software for, to get the functionality I want?

He probably is referring to video cards for game graphics, etc.; but video cards last a long time if all you care about is playing the game (and not necessarily having it on uber high graphics settings).

[YourMathTeacher]

Who needs video cards when you have integrated graphics...... up to 32MB of graphics.... completely integrated...

What now.

[Warrior_Monk]

Software is subjective to what you're using the computer for. Mac has it all together, and in the long run might be cheaper. All the add-ons add up. On a side note, mine is a lappy...if I had a desktop, I might go with Windows. But the last Dell Lappy I had was not nearly as good as this one.

[browarod]

Software is subjective to what you're using the computer for. Mac has it all together, and in the long run might be cheaper. All the add-ons add up. On a side note, mine is a lappy...if I had a desktop, I might go with Windows. But the last Dell Lappy I had was not nearly as good as this one.

I <3 my Samsung laptop with Windows 7.

[Warrior_Monk]

I <3 my Mac. With Garageband.

[Lamborghini_diablo]

On another note, I went to Boston with the iPod. While there, it disappeared...

I have More Than a Feeling that you went to see a Rock and Roll Band somewhere near Cheers. While there, you met a girl named Amanda who asked to borrow your iPod. She told you it was Smokin' hot, but then she disappeared when a crowd surfer bumped into you (you didn't have your hands up).

I'm afraid those things happen to all of us, so if I can give you any Peace of Mind, I'd say Don't Look Back and just "keep moving forward" (Walt Disney's words, not mine). You also may want to stay clear of Boston.

Man, how long did it take for you to get all those puns Organ-ized? Maybe It's Easy for you to make puns, but you should probably Cool the Engines a bit. It takes me such a Long Time to do this. Tell Me, how do you do it? If you tell me that its something unique to you, thats okay... I'm Used to Bad News. Oh well, I guess i'll just Walk On now.

PS, I had a Good Time writing this.

[The Schaef]

Software is subjective to what you're using the computer for. Mac has it all together, and in the long run might be cheaper. All the add-ons add up. On a side note, mine is a lappy...if I had a desktop, I might go with Windows. But the last Dell Lappy I had was not nearly as good as this one.

You still haven't explained to me what software I had to buy to make my $500 computer build plus $100-$150/yr in maintenance a more expensive purchase than a $3000 Mac (and I've tried to be fair and not list the top-shelf $5k versions).

[Warrior_Monk]

Software is subjective to what you're using the computer for. Mac has it all together, and in the long run might be cheaper. All the add-ons add up. On a side note, mine is a lappy...if I had a desktop, I might go with Windows. But the last Dell Lappy I had was not nearly as good as this one.

You still haven't explained to me what software I had to buy to make my $500 computer build plus $100-$150/yr in maintenance a more expensive purchase than a $3000 Mac (and I've tried to be fair and not list the top-shelf $5k versions).

I bought mine for $1000.

Example: Garageband comes on the mac. It's about $100-300 for a decent recording program.

[Cpt.Jaeger]

I spent $1700 one one of mine and $2400 on the other. I recently was offered $1000 for the first. After 5 years, that's $140 per year lost. I never had a problem with it, never bought extra software or anti-virus, and never had to upgrade anything to use photo/video/audio recording/editing software. After 4 years though, I complained that the battery wasn't lasting as long (about 20 minutes) and they next-day-shipped me a new battery.

That's not including the fact that I got a printer AND ipod with each one. I sold the ipod ($150) and printer ($100) for the first one. I'll let you do the math. But I'm pretty sure I did pretty well on my first mac, and I intend to on my second.

[The Schaef]

I bought mine for $1000.

You need to make up your mind whether or not you mean "high-end" when you say "high-end".  $1000 is clearly not a high-end price for a Mac by a long shot, and when I gave a $3000 (not even a $5000) price point earlier, you accepted that for the purposes of this discussion.

[Warrior_Monk]

I bought mine for $1000.

You need to make up your mind whether or not you mean "high-end" when you say "high-end".  $1000 is clearly not a high-end price for a Mac by a long shot, and when I gave a $3000 (not even a $5000) price point earlier, you accepted that for the purposes of this discussion.

When did I say high-end? Plus, when I first "accepted" the $3000 ones, I wasn't arguing about price, I was arguing about quality.

[Rawrlolsauce!]

virus buried windows users

What are you talking about? Macs have viruses. Last time I used a mac it had this really bad virus that impeded all progress, it was called OS X.

[The Schaef]

When did I say high-end? Plus, when I first "accepted" the $3000 ones, I wasn't arguing about price, I was arguing about quality.

In fairness, Jaeger was the one who originally made the argument to buying a high-end Mac.  But if the argument is that you buy a high-end Mac to have something still relevant five years later, and that's the point from which I'm proceeding, I am forced to assume when you enter that same line of discussion that you are accepting the same premise that Jaeger and I were using.  What I infer from that is a not-high-end Mac will not still be a powerhouse five years later, since that's what was required to push an upgrade back a minimum of five years.

I understand that not every Mac costs a small fortune; that's not a difficult concept to grasp.  But likewise, not every $1000 Mac bought five years ago is going to run Batman: Arkham Asylum, either.  I accepted his premise that you buy big to make it last longer between replacements, that only makes sense.  What does not make sense is your claim that I have to replace my computer after three years (I haven't) or that I have to buy all kinds of software to get the functionality I want (I don't).

[Minister Polarius]

Example: Garageband comes on the mac. It's about $100-300 for a decent recording program.

You're claiming Garageband is a decent recording program, your argument is invalid.

[Cpt.Jaeger]

When did I say high-end? Plus, when I first "accepted" the $3000 ones, I wasn't arguing about price, I was arguing about quality.

In fairness, Jaeger was the one who originally made the argument to buying a high-end Mac.  But if the argument is that you buy a high-end Mac to have something still relevant five years later, and that's the point from which I'm proceeding, I am forced to assume when you enter that same line of discussion that you are accepting the same premise that Jaeger and I were using.  What I infer from that is a not-high-end Mac will not still be a powerhouse five years later, since that's what was required to push an upgrade back a minimum of five years.

I understand that not every Mac costs a small fortune; that's not a difficult concept to grasp.  But likewise, not every $1000 Mac bought five years ago is going to run Batman: Arkham Asylum, either.  I accepted his premise that you buy big to make it last longer between replacements, that only makes sense.  What does not make sense is your claim that I have to replace my computer after three years (I haven't) or that I have to buy all kinds of software to get the functionality I want (I don't).

Well, I think you assumed we were talking about the high end desktop, while we were actually referring to laptops. I consider the $2200 15" i7 macbook high end, without adding additional features. Generally though, I define high-end macbook as +$2000 (for reference).

At $2000 price point, it is not hard to use is 5 years without needing upgrades or having problems, and then sell it for over $1000. With a little time, you can likely still get $1200 for it if you really take care of it.

That comes to "costing you" $160 per year for 5 years (assuming you buy one, use it, and sell it).
Cost for 5 years: $800

With windows, assume you start at a $1000 price point. Over the course of 5 years, you upgrade it and buy antivirus at $150 per year. You also likely have to upgrade the OS once during those 5 years, which runs you at least $100. After 5 years, and a voided warranty from upgrading yourself, you'll likely get $500 for your laptop.
Cost for 5 years: $1350

I may have exaggerated a couple numbers, but AT LEAST macs are not unreasonably expensive as prejudice windows like to think.

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Now, wraith went with a $1000 macbook. Do you really think if you walk into a best buy or apple store and buy a $1000 mac or a $1000 HP (just example), that you will get as many years out of or have less problems with an HP? NO. A $1000 mac will last longer, re-sell for more, and cost less to upkeep that a $1000 mac.

=================================================

Now, if you are talking about a desktop, then I would say.....

Buy a mac if you are running a business and need a server or are doing hardcore audio/video/photo editing.

Buy a pc if you are doing anything else.

At this point I can break down the individual components of a mac, processor, MB, RAM, etc and explain it generally operates faster than a good PC. Or I can point out that windows are cheaper. I can easily make an argument for each.

If I had the big bucks, I would buy a mac pro. I like how it looks, I like the components, etc. Then i would tri-boot- linux, osx, 7.
If I didn't have the big bucks, i would buy a windows native machine, and dual boot it with mac, after upgrading several key components.

If you are about to buy a desktop, generally you can find just as good of deal in a mac as you can in a windows, and it goes both ways. You can also run either OS in either machine (although, OSX is harder to set up when it's not native).

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Finally, yes, there will always be a few exceptions out there like alienware, etc, that i will never make an argument about because they fall out of the realm of normal PCs, and i simply do not keep tabs on where their machines are technologically, or how well equipped they come

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For the record i have personally owned 3 HP desktops that i upgraded for years (lasting me 3, 5, and 7 years), built 2 entirely custom windows machines, where I ordered each part individually and put them together myself, and I have owned 2 mac book pros. While I may not have the experience in years around here, i definitely consider myself informed. I also worked at Best Buy (in computers) for a long time, and met some very intelligent individuals, some of which i actually got to know outside of the workplace (one hired me for some time working on computers).

[Cpt.Jaeger]

PS- if you try to argue that the windows OS is better than the mac OS..... that is an argument I can only make for one side, and I will simply crush windows..... I got very close with an older computer science professor last year, and .... yeah, Microsoft Windows < Mac OSX

[SomeKittens]

Buy a mac if you are running a business and need a server or are doing hardcore audio/video/photo editing.

Buy a pc if you are doing anything else.

Why would you ever run a mac server while the Great Penguin still exists?

[The Schaef]

With windows, assume you start at a $1000 price point.

No.  $500.  I told you.  We just helped RR build one and I believe he splurged on certain components to get up to $700.

Over the course of 5 years, you upgrade it and buy antivirus at $150 per year.

No.  I pay nothing for antivirus or firewall.  Avast + Comodo > pretty much every commercial product except Trend Micro.

You also likely have to upgrade the OS once during those 5 years, which runs you at least $100.

I have been using XP for as long as I can remember, and have no plans to upgrade any time soon.

Cost for 5 years: $1350

That is more than I have paid to keep my desktop in shape for the last TEN years.

And no, I got no impression that we were talking about laptops versus desktops when the discussion was "Mac" or "PC" with no distinction regarding the form factor.