Author Topic: My take on what's wrong with Redemption and how to effectively counter it  (Read 9765 times)

Offline Bryon

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Now that I think about it, wouldn't maybe just adding the 1/2 offense/defense rule to current T1 rules solve alot of the problems found in T1?

I agree. And before people argue "That would make it just like T2!!!1!!oen!" that is simply not true. T2 is different for many reasons: deck size, multiples, rescuer's choice, play to 7 that all make it a vastly different experience from T1. Balancing T1 would make it a little more like T2 and a lot more fun. I'd be sad to see super-turtles go, but I wouldn't mourn them too much if they took Sam/Gardenciples/meta-defense decks with them.
I completely agree as well.

And, for what it is worth, dominants are getting hit by 2 rules the day after Nationals.:

1) Dominant cap: number of dominants in deck cannot exceed the number of lost souls.
2) Dominants can't be played in the first round.

There will be more time needed for deck checking if the #good = #evil rule materializes in Type 1, but I think it will be good for the game as a whole.

I still think that SoG and NJ should not be able to rescue your own lost souls.  But I didn't get enough general players agreeing with me when I proposed it last time.

Offline Red

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I still say dom cap is a horrible idea. No doms round one is all you really need. Honestly doms aren't the main problem. Drawing is.
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Offline Alex_Olijar

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I still say dom cap is a horrible idea. No doms round one is all you really need. Honestly doms aren't the main problem. Drawing is.

That's fine, but you are still wrong. Glad to hear the right rules are being changed.

Offline Red

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Dom cap has no balancing function other than forceing lampstand and naz as staple. And giveing me more offense cards.
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I survived the Flood twice.

Chronic Apathy

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Why not implement the dominant rules right now? Why potentially allow another Nats decided by FTMs?

Offline Master KChief

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There will be more time needed for deck checking if the #good = #evil rule materializes in Type 1, but I think it will be good for the game as a whole.

Other mainstream CCG's require players to write down decklists and turn them in at major tournaments. Deck checks are then performed randomly throughout the tournament. This saves immensly on time. Why haven't we implemented this yet?
"If it weren't for people with bad decision making skills, I'd have to get a real job." - Reynad

Chronic Apathy

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There will be more time needed for deck checking if the #good = #evil rule materializes in Type 1, but I think it will be good for the game as a whole.

Other mainstream CCG's require players to write down decklists and turn them in at major tournaments. Deck checks are then performed randomly throughout the tournament. This saves immensly on time. Why haven't we implemented this yet?

You'd prefer people be even less accountable than they are now? I'm all for the attitude of giving the benefit of a doubt, but that is just asking to be abused.

Offline CactusRob

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FWIW, the policy on banning cards is not an intractable one.  Probably once a year or so, someone revisits the idea of whether to banish some particularly troublesome card from the game, and the usual suspects often come up: ANB, New Jerusalem, etc.

Obviously, it hasn't happened yet, but I want people to be clear on the distinction between not having banned any cards to date, and not willing to ban any cards ever just to keep that one benefit.  Rob is not convinced at this time of the absolute need.

Here is the thing for me about banning cards.  It's not an issue of pride or being stubborn - truly.  It's more an issue of the potentially banned cards currently being in booster packs on the store shelves.  If the tournament players can live with buying a card today or tomorrow that they are not allowed to play in a tournament category or categories, I am willing to ban cards.  I just question how that will go down for most people. 

Did LotR or other games ban cards that were still on retail shelves?

Also, I am currently working on "Restricted" categories that players and hosts can test this season in place of regular categories at the Local and District level.  More on this very soon.

At the end of the day, I am not too concerned about RNRS points or trophies.  What I care about is players enjoying their games.
Rob Anderson
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Offline SomeKittens

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Did LotR or other games ban cards that were still on retail shelves?
Yes.  MTG's latest ban (Jace and Stoneforge Mystic) happened before they were even rotated out.  A friend of my had a rather nasty shock when he paid $250 for 3 copies of Jace and they banned Jace two days later.  (On his birthday, unfortunately).
Mind not the ignorant fool on the other side of the screen!-BubbleBoy
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Offline Master KChief

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You'd prefer people be even less accountable than they are now? I'm all for the attitude of giving the benefit of a doubt, but that is just asking to be abused.

Yes. Its the honor system. The fact you can be busted from a random deck check for having cards in your deck that are not on your decklist is usually more than enough to curb cheating. I also find it very odd non-Christian CCG's implement this practice, yet a Christian one does not.
"If it weren't for people with bad decision making skills, I'd have to get a real job." - Reynad

Offline SomeKittens

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What's the penalty for being "busted?"  Are you kicked out of only that tournament, or are you banned for a time?
Mind not the ignorant fool on the other side of the screen!-BubbleBoy
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Chronic Apathy

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You'd prefer people be even less accountable than they are now? I'm all for the attitude of giving the benefit of a doubt, but that is just asking to be abused.

Yes. Its the honor system. The fact you can be busted from a random deck check for having cards in your deck that are not on your decklist is usually more than enough to curb cheating. I also find it very odd non-Christian CCG's implement this practice, yet a Christian one does not.

Have you ever been to Nationals? A lot of people don't make their decks until the night before the tournament. I seem to recall that being the case for Gabe and Kevin's 1st Place Teams deck, and I don't believe it's the first time they've done that either. With absolutely no more than 150 (and it's usually less than 100 [I think?]) in the most popular open deck category, we manage to do deck checks in a relatively timely manner. At the end of the day, Redemption isn't a regular mainstream CCG, and this is one of the areas where I think it's a good thing it's not.

Offline Master KChief

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What's the penalty for being "busted?"  Are you kicked out of only that tournament, or are you banned for a time?

Game loss for the current round.

Have you ever been to Nationals?

No.

Quote
A lot of people don't make their decks until the night before the tournament. I seem to recall that being the case for Gabe and Kevin's 1st Place Teams deck, and I don't believe it's the first time they've done that either.

What does this have to do with players turning in a decklist?

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With absolutely no more than 150 (and it's usually less than 100 [I think?]) in the most popular open deck category, we manage to do deck checks in a relatively timely manner.

And we're not talking about the current deck checking time. We're talking about the possible lengthened deck check time that a 1/2 offense/defense rule to T1 will create. A solution to the problem was suggeted. Perhaps you as well can offer some solutions? :-*
« Last Edit: March 15, 2012, 07:46:14 PM by Master KChief »
"If it weren't for people with bad decision making skills, I'd have to get a real job." - Reynad

The Schaef

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Yes.  MTG's latest ban (Jace and Stoneforge Mystic) happened before they were even rotated out.  A friend of my had a rather nasty shock when he paid $250 for 3 copies of Jace and they banned Jace two days later.  (On his birthday, unfortunately).

There's an evil piece of my soul that finds this hilarious.  It's the same part of me that thinks it's hilarious when people say "No Deal!" and immediately turn up the million dollar suitcase.  Or the couple that starts arguing about a Money Drop question, and then watches in horror as $680,000 plummets out of their grasp forever.

Offline SomeKittens

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He's exactly that way too.  Which is why I found that whole situation ironically hilarious.
Mind not the ignorant fool on the other side of the screen!-BubbleBoy
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Offline SiLeNcEd_MaTrIx

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Yes.  MTG's latest ban (Jace and Stoneforge Mystic) happened before they were even rotated out.  A friend of my had a rather nasty shock when he paid $250 for 3 copies of Jace and they banned Jace two days later.  (On his birthday, unfortunately).

There's an evil piece of my soul that finds this hilarious.  It's the same part of me that thinks it's hilarious when people say "No Deal!" and immediately turn up the million dollar suitcase.  Or the couple that starts arguing about a Money Drop question, and then watches in horror as $680,000 plummets out of their grasp forever.
I feel sorry for the MTG guy that stinks but man the no deal people I have no real compassion for, and my flesh enjoys seeing them lose all that money when they get greedy like that.
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